Christians....I'm SICK of them

reply to post by followtheevidence


Thanks for that link, followtheevidence!

I certainly hope some of these fanatics will address the mistranslation issues with something other than the bleating, illiterate mindsets of the masses for whom it was originally written. They had NO WAY of disproving or researching anything...WE do.

With a better translation than any previous ones, NOW we can get somewhere on this:

Let's define some of these terms here using the Strong's Condordance (if you don't know what that is and you are a christian, PLEASE google it). For those who aren't christian - the Strong's Concordance is a dictionary that lists every single word, yes every single word used in the KJV of the bible and gives you its original in Hebrew/Greek and the definition of the original Hebrew/Greek word. This is handy for the KJV in particular because the vernacular is somewhat antiquated.

"The creature" = the Greek ktisis
ktisis = anything created, creation

"Vanity" = mataiotēs
mataiotēs = perverseness/depravity

"Corruption" = phthora
phthora = destruction/perishing/decay

Let us put that all together in terms which are a little more user friendly shall we:

And since the Bible had so many later editions, translations, etc., AND the Pope has total authority to deny or admit ... why don't they just write some new chapters and get rid of the rest, like they have done with outdated science texts (except to have copies available for posterity ONLY)?

Thanks, also for the pet affirmation!

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by vogon42

 

Show her love my friend...

Love breaks down all barriers...

Akra, you know I respect you and value your thoughts on these matters. Nevertheless, there are SOME people that are not subject to "love" breaking down those barrieres.

These people are so deeply embedded with their fanaticisms and addictions (whether drugs, alcohol, scripture, knitting, stamp-collecting, jogging, video games, lying, stealing, abusing others, etc.) that it damages their lives and their ability to have healthy, loving relationships, and those who continue to engage with them are damaged as well. This is one of the primary problems, for example, with battered spouses (or partners). You can't "love" the beatings into oblivion. You can't "change" another person. They can only change themselves, and no amount of shown, expressed love is going to get them to do it.

There are also people who are not simply "escaping" into these forms of diversion, but are also OUT OF TOUCH with reality. And all the love in the world cannot break down those barriers, either. I have endured these kinds of relationships, with family and with friends, with romantic partners and with co-workers. I have seen others in the throes of emotional breakdown for trying desperately to "love away" the other's pain and abusive behavior and emotional unavailability.

Love can break down the frustration and pain those of us feel who have been hurt, but forgiveness is different than actually "getting through" the barriers of madness and evil.

At some point, those who may love the other with all their heart must step away, because the relationship becomes toxic in a contagious way, and damaging to themselves, sometimes even fatally so.

--wt

reply to post by wildtimes


unfortunatly i disagree...

Even if things get frustrating you should still show love none the less...

Read the Parable of the Sower... pay particular attention to 16 -17 my friend

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by wildtimes

 

unfortunatly i disagree...

Even if things get frustrating you should still show love none the less...

Read the Parable of the Sower... pay particular attention to 16 -17 my friend

I'm not talking about frustration.

I'm talking about physical damage, or physical neglect, or slavery, or emotional abuse, and the stripping away of one's dignity, family and friends, and self-esteem.

There are countless numbers of women and men who have been killed by abusive "romantic partners" who are sociopathic monsters, children who are beaten to death, starved, locked away, provided with no stimulation or nurturing, perhaps as adults robbed of everything by predatory manipulators, or devastated by lying, deceitful posers, or scarred for life by the systematic destruction of their sense of self-respect and self-reliability.

There are millions of people who are preyed upon by these abberations who feel NOT empathy or love for ANYONE, and even once these people were sucked in and started getting the beatings, or rapings, or robbery, or isolation from their friends and families, and were broken down to nothing but terrorized prisoners...who stayed with them out of fear, out of blind trust, or out of thinking "I can love his/her pain away." And unless the other person is receptive, and has a "normal" ability to maintain mutually loving relationships, and invests themselves in communication, regard, and REAL love, it will not work.

Again, with all due respect and acknowledgment,
Cheers, akra

reply to post by wildtimes


I did not say "it would work"... Love does break down barriers... but in some cases nothing can change the person... that is their path... and eventually that person will have to deal with his deeds one way or the other...

Either way...

Hate the sin... not the sinner...

Originally posted by vogon42
From another post, after spending about two weeks trying to make sense of the christian religion.
Asking the following questions that perplexed me as a child.

How many animals were on the ark?

The number is irrelevant. This is a tribal moral tale. It is not factual information.

Originally posted by vogon42
Why can jesus be reincarnated, .....why not grandpa?

Jesus was reincarnated in spirit through his followers. If you love your grandpa, let him reincarnate through you. Honor your ancestors in all you do.

Originally posted by vogon42
My kitty just got hit by a car. I ask my mother if my kitty will go to heaven, and the answer is NO.
Why is it my kitty can not go to heaven?

Heaven is right here in front of our eyes my friend. Look around at all the kitties of all sorts that you have been given. Cherish them all.

Originally posted by vogon42
Why am I called a sinner, when I did nothing wrong?

As long as you do not find fault in anyone else, then you are blameless. If you have judgement against a Brother, then yes, you are a sinner. Forgive others that you may be forgiven.

Originally posted by vogon42
Why do you pay this guy to tell you your are going to hell?

Because the truth is free, but Man rejected it.

I hope this helps my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Akragon
........
Hate the sin... not the sinner...

Perhaps, for your own sake, you would care to elaborate on this one!

There are many priests having their way with little boys....I FAIL to see how that is anything other than the fault of the priest.

People are murdered, do we blame the knife or the club....or is is the person yielding the weapon?

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by Akragon
........
Hate the sin... not the sinner...

Perhaps, for your own sake, you would care to elaborate on this one!

There are many priests having their way with little boys....I FAIL to see how that is anything other than the fault of the priest.

People are murdered, do we blame the knife or the club....or is is the person yielding the weapon?

For my own sake? I don't understand what you mean...

Anyways... i can't speak for other men and their deeds. I don't know what causes people to do horible things... likely there are psychological issues stemming from their childhood but again i don't know...

What i do know is everything has a reason behind it... even the most horible of occurances in life...

Thats life... Unfortunatly it doesn't always make sense to us.... but i assure you all things have purpose...

Not that my word means anything to anyone of course...

Originally posted by Akragon
.......

Hate the sin... not the sinner...

Seriously.....do you understand that child abuse is wrong?

Does not matter if its done it the name of religion, it is still abuse, and is still wrong.

Can you understand that??

reply to post by vogon42


Why would you think i don't understand that?

Originally posted by Akragon


........
Hate the sin... not the sinner...

......
.......

Anyways... i can't speak for other men and their deeds. I don't know what causes people to do horible things... likely there are psychological issues stemming from their childhood but again i don't know...

What i do know is everything has a reason behind it... even the most horible of occurances in life...

Thats life... Unfortunatly it doesn't always make sense to us.... but i assure you all things have purpose...

......

These statements you have made.

Originally posted by vogon42
These statements you have made.

Everything has purpose.

How do you know child abuse is wrong?

You had to experience it to discover that truth. So it isn't wrong, unless you fail to learn from it, and then your doom is repeating it.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

How do you know child abuse is wrong?

IAM, I have never experienced it, and I STILL know it is wrong.
I agree to you on some level...but my current belief is that each soul has "willingly contracted" to enter the life into which they are born. This may be to learn a lesson based on karmic debt, or to teach someone who is struggling with being abusive.

But that doesn't make child abuse, or victimization, RIGHT.

Normally I'm a bit befuddled by your expressions of youself here....I've been watching and reading your posts to try to get a handle on it.

I also believe that reincarnation is part of the soul's life cycle. We return again and again, either to learn, or to teach, and eventually we are worthy of our place in the Divine Peace that is our destiny.

Just wondering what your point is. But I know you tend to be a man of few words....

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by Akragon


........
Hate the sin... not the sinner...

......

.......

Anyways... i can't speak for other men and their deeds. I don't know what causes people to do horible things... likely there are psychological issues stemming from their childhood but again i don't know...

What i do know is everything has a reason behind it... even the most horible of occurances in life...

Thats life... Unfortunatly it doesn't always make sense to us.... but i assure you all things have purpose...

......

These statements you have made.

.................................................

and i stand by them...

what is your point?

reply to post by wildtimes


If you believe in reincarnation and karmic debt... how do you suppose God would deal with a murderer that has never recieved any punishment within this life time? Or perhaps a rapist that is never caught?

Originally posted by OwenGP185
What is the main reason I do not believe in any religion, well the fact that a large part of the world’s population has never been exposed to Christianity, Islam etc. What about the people living in jungles who do not even have a Sunday let alone churches? What about those who do not have the materials to print the bible or other religious texts. I do not deny the possibility of some type of God but I disagree with every religion on this Earth when it is simply a cultural local thing.

It is like saying everyone in the world should have a specific firewall on their computer forgetting the rest who do not have a computer nor electricity.

I have always wondered to those who follow a religion, if you were born in a small tribe in the middle of nowhere... Would you be part of the religion you are now? Be honest you would not, you might be worshipping animals, multiple Gods, none etc, so why would God place you somewhere that you cannot practise what religions teach.

I would think it boils down to.. you're only liable for those things that you are aware of.

I would also think that natives still in jungles, african deserts or the tops of mountains would be more in tuned to God than a majority of the "civilized" world today. Ive found that reading about these hidden cultures, they seem to be much more spiritual than many religions today, just in a diffrent way. They live it... Whatever sins someone partakes in isnt religion specific though. I'm almost certain that most if not all the world (with few exceptions) understand a simple concept of right and wrong. If it brings pain and burden to another.. Its wrong. If it brings joy and happyness.. even if it's a barrel of drugs for the addicted... you're still doing right by them. (Remember here... people choose their own path.. it's up to us to make sure that we as a whole are happy and comphy with one another no matter what our faults..) Sure, you may be killing the guy, or do something that may enable him to kill someone else, but you did not do wrong by him. It is up to him to make the right choice.

God is within and without. If we listen to that consious, voice, whatever anyone wants to call it... I call it the voice of reason, who is none other than God influencing me by making me aware of right and wrong.

I dont think there are any natives that truely feel in their hearts that killing a near by tribe member is a good thing.. Even if it's for revenge. Yet, we are still taught to defend ourselves.. The opposite of that.. Offence which is wrong and sinful in the writen words of the bible.

reply to post by borntowatch


Understanding "free will" is hard for some people...usually the same people who think free speech is great as long as you agree with them. Everyone has free will which means some will do good some will do bad...if there is a great being out there who created all this, apparently he wants us to live our own lives...otherwise we would just be a Sims game.

I think that is what you are saying. Good job.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Akragon

 

Actually by having no religion I would call you a bit wiser than others.
You are not bound by ages old taboos that might prevent you from obtaining knowledge.
But I call nobody dumb or stupid.

I dont understand how a religion would limit your knowledge. We are given free will. Most importantly, we are to seek God in everything. That would mean... well.. everything.

So how does that limit a person's knowledge?

If you go towards stim cell stuff and what not, I'll save some time by saying this... I have never seen anywhere that speaks of such things in the bible. My take on the bible boils down to loving one another and doing for everyone... EVERYONE around you as you would have them do to you. Believe, believe in and seek God in all things. Jesus came to show the way how.. Even today we don't listen. But I still cant make a connection with limiting knowledge. It's supposed to be the other way around.

If you speak of babalon.. Perhaps those people were not yet ready to recieve what they were attempting, and most importantly, it was done in a way that mocked God. The reaction that came after was punishment.

The church and the Flat/Round earth... Well what can ya say. For thousands of years we have progressed more and more. Can you honestly say that those people back then were just too scared of new things? Whatever their reason, it had nothing to do with God. It had everything to do with the actions of man.

Most people CANT see an obvious diffrence there.

I do feel that people who do not believe are more free than those that do, only because those that do decide that is how they should be, when often, it's probably not even required. I also feel those that do not believe struggle more with misshaps. Who do they turn to? Themselves of course. I was always told to let things out, and I used to pray to do just that, and it was ALWAYS soothing. With my failing faith today, at least I say it is, I find life to be a bit more lonely, no matter how many people are around you. Something still always seems "missing" in a horrible bad way... But pride is a mofo! Indicision is a mofo! Being lost among the many beliefs in search of the right one is hardly barrable. So I guess Christians have issues just like the rest of the world. They just do things a lil diffrent. Their pain and suffering is usually given to God instead of offloading them on YOU. I find that rather attractive about Christianity.

Originally posted by StealthyKat
reply to post by Akragon

 

Akrogon...I am not trying to be confrontational.....but what do you think about the question I asked about those that never heard of the Bible and Jesus? (on this page) People who are so remote they know nothing of it. Are they going to hell? Because they cannot accept Jesus as their saviour if they know nothing of it....and the Bible says that is the only way to Heaven...so are they just doomed?

Cat, I made mention of something of this just recently in this thread.

Since I'm here though, i would like to offer one thing.

I think it is said in the bible that in the end days, everyone will have already been made known the comming of Jesus. Perhaps those tribes did back in the day.

It also says, 2000 years ago, Jesus walked on every shore and showed himself to every people.

When Capt Cook arrived on the native shores, some thought him a god because he fit the same discription of a white man with a white beard who showed up on their shores a few thousand years ago. It was THEIR prophecy that he would return to live among them. Instead, Cook turned out to be their antichrist.

Funny how a people so many years ago could know something like this if they had NEVER been exposed to a white man from clear across the world. Still.. Those people knew.

It's gotten to the point that the majority of the world has heard about Jesus and today, so many missionaries are out there spreading that same word. I'm finding it hard to believe that there are more than just a handfull of people who have not heard of Jesus. But as I mentioned in an earlier post, I would believe that they are judged more by their actions, for they have their beliefs as well and may be closer to God than we are.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by wildtimes

 

If you believe in reincarnation and karmic debt... how do you suppose God would deal with a murderer that has never recieved any punishment within this life time? Or perhaps a rapist that is never caught?

I believe one doesn't meet up with "God" until the lessons are done. It is the "angels" or "spiritual guides" (that are other-than-human beings), who help the soul review their past life, rest for a tiime if necessary (can be a really long time in "Earth" years, or a short time if they die of accident or unexpected illness), and when they are ready, are offered a variety of options for their next incarnation.

They (the souls in the etheral state and the guides) work together, studying the "dociers" (if you will) of options, and together come up with a design intended either to "learn" or to "teach or help" another soul.

The soul agrees, with full knowledge of the "experience" they are to enter, and the "veil" comes down when the person is born once more to human set of parents (who ALSO have their own lessons to learn, or teach). There is just too much evidence of little kids who've acquired language (ages 2,3,4) who "know" who they were, or have recognized their "previous family", with carefully studied and controlled researchers looking into it, for this not to be the case. I don't know why some little kids "remember", and others "don't", but I suspect it's partly a cultural "openness" to the idea as opposed to claiming the child is "inventing imaginary friends" or "making up stories."

I also believe that groups reincarnate together, and work together to assist each other to learn the necessary things to eventually lead to a perfect understanding and adoration of the Divine Peace that awaits us all.

Make sense? (It does to me. I am asking to establish whether or not I expressed myself clearly).