Christians....I'm SICK of them

Originally posted by followtheevidence
Scripture makes it undeniably clear that animals will inhabit heaven. Or did you not read Scripture for yourself when seeking these answers? Seems legit.

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox." Isaiah 11:6-7

"The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox: and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, says the LORD." Isaiah 65:25

edit on 7-1-2012 by followtheevidence because: classified

Thanks for this one.

I guess this "could" be taken for a metaphore, but it doesnt look that way. I would think this speaks about animals in general. As in.. The new Earth with the same species but not "your pets". I dunno if I can see this as our pets going to heaven and joining us. I wish I had time to dig around for the verses I'm thinkin of when it's mentioned that we arnt supposed to have such feelings for animals the way we do. That encourages me more to think that our pets do not make it. Would be swell! But, dont you think this mentions just animals being in heaven in general? I mean, animals do not sin nor do they do good.

What is the main reason I do not believe in any religion, well the fact that a large part of the world’s population has never been exposed to Christianity, Islam etc. What about the people living in jungles who do not even have a Sunday let alone churches? What about those who do not have the materials to print the bible or other religious texts. I do not deny the possibility of some type of God but I disagree with every religion on this Earth when it is simply a cultural local thing.

It is like saying everyone in the world should have a specific firewall on their computer forgetting the rest who do not have a computer nor electricity.

I have always wondered to those who follow a religion, if you were born in a small tribe in the middle of nowhere... Would you be part of the religion you are now? Be honest you would not, you might be worshipping animals, multiple Gods, none etc, so why would God place you somewhere that you cannot practise what religions teach.

reply to post by vogon42


I am christian but I will not turn my other cheek to you. It's not about us, it's about you.

reply to post by OwenGP185


That is something else I wonder about. What about people who live in remote places who never heard of the Bible or Koran etc....do they go to hell just because they don't know about it? See that is why I have my dilemma. If God loves everyone, what about them? It's not their fault they never heard of the Bible and Jesus etc....are they just :kicked into hell"? That doesn't seem right from a God who loves all equally. The Bible says no man can eneter Heaven except through Jesus....so what about the tribesman in the jungle who never heard of Jesus and was never given a choice? That doesn't make sense to me. There are so many contradictions.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Akragon

 

I can't believe your gonna make me bust out with the scripture,but be warned,
Before I came into some wisdom, I used to be smart and I was fairly proficient with the ...."good book".
Early on in the same book you site, it also says...

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So we all must die "physically as the body will, therefore this must mean your soul.
This is how it reads to me and that's just how the preachers used to explain it.
CONFORM OR DIE ETERNALLY SINNER!!!
Like I said, my dogs worship me and still love me unconditionally.
My dog understands more of love than your god.

Believe whatever you like my friend...

Im not here to convince anyone.

reply to post by Trueman


Can you really call yourself a christian if you do not believe and follow the teachings of christ?
Sounds less like christian and more selftian actually.

Did I just make a new religion?
SELFTIAN, believe what you want and practice when it is convenient.

I think this whole thing is where the WWJD started, some christian saw all of the ideas that were out of line with the teachings of christ.
I tthink the christian idea is a nice one as long as it is truly christian but even at that, it is still too passive for my taste, I wouldn't turn the other cheek either.

reply to post by Akragon


Maybe not but a mental exercise is healthy for all.
Well, unless your religion prohibits of course.
Tree of knowledge and all.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Akragon

 

Maybe not but a mental exercise is healthy for all.
Well, unless your religion prohibits of course.
Tree of knowledge and all.

I have no religion...

Are you actually trying to call me stupid or something?

How nice...

reply to post by vogon42


Sounds to me like youre already filled with anger toward religion in general?? And I can understand why, believe me!! My suggestion.......go get a New Internation Version Bible, cause its in todays english, and read it for yourself to find out the truth of the matter. NO ONE should base their ideas of Christianity or any religion, on what other people say and do.....FIND FOR YOURSELF, BY READING FOR YOURSELF, then go make a difference in the world

I'm really sorry that you had such a lousy experience there.......

reply to post by Akragon


Actually by having no religion I would call you a bit wiser than others.
You are not bound by ages old taboos that might prevent you from obtaining knowledge.
But I call nobody dumb or stupid.

reply to post by StealthyKat


You know something, those are matters that dont concern us......we will ALL stand judgement for what we have done as individuals, NOT for any other matters. The matters you concern yourself with are for God to deal with, not for us to "understand"..........He is God, and He is Holy, Just and Righteous.......His handling of the matters we dont understand will be perfect, we dont need to worry about them.......we need to be concerned with ourselves, our attitudes and our behaviors. Jesus paid the penalty for sin, its a free gift for us to accept, when we accept it, we follow Him in faith........just to break it down. Matthew, Mark, John and Luke explain this in the simplest of details

Wish you the best!

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Akragon

 

Actually by having no religion I would call you a bit wiser than others.
You are not bound by ages old taboos that might prevent you from obtaining knowledge.
But I call nobody dumb or stupid.

first you throw a hidden insult at me, next you compliment me... arn't you the perplexing one...

Would you call "love" and age old taboo?

reply to post by Akragon


Akrogon...I am not trying to be confrontational.....but what do you think about the question I asked about those that never heard of the Bible and Jesus? (on this page) People who are so remote they know nothing of it. Are they going to hell? Because they cannot accept Jesus as their saviour if they know nothing of it....and the Bible says that is the only way to Heaven...so are they just doomed?

reply to post by PROT3CTOR


But what I want to know is....how can one accept what they know nothing of? If one takes the Bible as word, then you MUST accept Jesus to go to Heaven....what happens to those who never hear that (remote jungle people etc)

Originally posted by StealthyKat
reply to post by OwenGP185

 

That is something else I wonder about. What about people who live in remote places who never heard of the Bible or Koran etc....do they go to hell just because they don't know about it? See that is why I have my dilemma. If God loves everyone, what about them? It's not their fault they never heard of the Bible and Jesus etc....are they just :kicked into hell"? That doesn't seem right from a God who loves all equally. The Bible says no man can eneter Heaven except through Jesus....so what about the tribesman in the jungle who never heard of Jesus and was never given a choice? That doesn't make sense to me. There are so many contradictions.

I will try and answer this by the words given to some visionaries by the Blessed Virgin Mary in medjugorje.

www.medjugorjeusa.org...

January 10, 1983
Mirjana shared with Father Tomislav Vlasic that during the year and a half that she had been receiving apparitions, she had experienced the maternal love and intimacy of Our Lady and questioned Her why God could so "Mercilessly" send sinners to Hell forever.

"Men who go to Hell no longer wants to receive any benefit from God. They do not repent nor do they cease to revolt and to blaspheme. They make up their mind to live in Hell and do not contemplate leaving it."

July 21, 1982 Concerning Purgatory:

"There are many souls in Purgatory. There are also persons who have been consecrated to God - some priests, some Religious. Pray for their intentions, at least the Lord's Prayer, the Hail Mary, and the Glory Be seven times each, and the Creed. I recommend it to you. There is a large number of souls who have been in Purgatory for a long time because no one prays for them."

Regarding Purgatory:

"In Purgatory there are different levels; the lowest is close to Hell and the highest gradually draws near to Heaven. It is not on All Souls Day, but at Christmas, that the greatest number of souls leave Purgatory. There are in Purgatory, souls who pray ardently to God, but for whom no relative or friend prays on earth. God makes them benefit from the prayers of other people. It happens that God permits them to manifest themselves in different ways, close to their relatives on earth, in order to remind men of the existence of Purgatory and to solicit their prayers to come close to God who is just, but good. The majority of people go to Purgatory. Many go to Hell. A small number go directly to Heaven."

Ok..I know many Christians will slam the idea of purgatory.. but it is a great gift from god in my eyes.. and Mary says that most souls of all upon death got to purgatory for atonement and purification...and need the help of prayers .

She also said in another message.. and I can't find it right now.. but I will keep searching.. That God judges souls by their hearts.. and upon death the souls sees the glory of God.. and its beautiful love.. and is much more aware of how they have offended God. For those who wish to make atonement for their sins against this love..they go to purgatory..where the prayers of the faithful and those in heaven help them.

Note what she says about hell when asked..why a merciful Go would send souls there... it is a choice they make.. by refusing Gods love.

I hope this helped some what.. though I am aware that many outside the catholic faith have no belief in purgatory.. though many visionaries and saints over the centuries have been shown visions of heaven , hell..and purgatory.

May God in His mercy guide us all to His truth and love.

Originally posted by StealthyKat
reply to post by Akragon

 

Akrogon...I am not trying to be confrontational.....but what do you think about the question I asked about those that never heard of the Bible and Jesus? (on this page) People who are so remote they know nothing of it. Are they going to hell? Because they cannot accept Jesus as their saviour if they know nothing of it....and the Bible says that is the only way to Heaven...so are they just doomed?

Of course not... this is just silly Christian inturpretation.

Gods word is written in every mans heart... though not everyone chooses to follow what is inside.

Regardless of your "beliefs" your deeds in life will be judged when you die... Most Christians "accept" jesus without even knowing what that actually means... They let their "spiritual leader" preach to them without actually reading what he said.

Every man is responsible for his own actions... you can only "doom" yourself... and Hell isn't where they go... they return to the physical world...

Those that have never heard of Jesus are on the same playing field as the rest...

reply to post by PROT3CTOR


"New Internation Version Bible"

Thank you!

I will .......consider looking into that.

Its not so much that I want to return to christianity.....as it is that I would like to improve the realtionship with my mother.
She is SO buried in the methodist church, its painful for me to speak to her.

Just trying to gain a bit of the christians perspective, in an attempt to improve communication with her, but its really not been a good perspective over the past few weeks.

reply to post by vogon42


Show her love my friend...

Love breaks down all barriers...

Originally posted by theRhenn

Thanks for this one.

I guess this "could" be taken for a metaphore, but it doesnt look that way. I would think this speaks about animals in general. As in.. The new Earth with the same species but not "your pets". I dunno if I can see this as our pets going to heaven and joining us. I wish I had time to dig around for the verses I'm thinkin of when it's mentioned that we arnt supposed to have such feelings for animals the way we do. That encourages me more to think that our pets do not make it. Would be swell! But, dont you think this mentions just animals being in heaven in general? I mean, animals do not sin nor do they do good.

I was quoting this verse insofar that animals themselves will inhabit the New Earth.

However ...

Pets WILL be included as well ... here's my Scriptural proof:

"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Romans 8:18-22 KJV

Let's define some of these terms here using the Strong's Condordance (if you don't know what that is and you are a christian, PLEASE google it). For those who aren't christian - the Strong's Concordance is a dictionary that lists every single word, yes every single word used in the KJV of the bible and gives you its original in Hebrew/Greek and the definition of the original Hebrew/Greek word. This is handy for the KJV in particular because the vernacular is somewhat antiquated.

"The creature" = the Greek ktisis
ktisis = anything created, creation

"Vanity" = mataiotēs
mataiotēs = perverseness/depravity

"Corruption" = phthora
phthora = destruction/perishing/decay

Let us put that all together in terms which are a little more user friendly shall we:

"For [creation] was made subject to [depravity/perverseness], not willingly, but by reason of him (that's us) who hath subjected the same in hope, Because [creation] itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of [destruction/decay] into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole [creation] groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now"

SO ....

Every creature which has ever lived has suffered as a direct result of the fall. That much is obvious. But those very same creatures which suffer and travail also look forward to liberation from death/perishing and to the coming glory of God ~ if they are liberated from death that means they are given life; thus they will abide in the new Earth. So ... since your pets are included in the category of everything that has ever been created ...

Maybe you should all do your pets a favor and get right with God so your pet isn't forced to spend eternity without you.

P.S. Fellow christians, PLEASE site Scripture when attempting to build any biblical case! Your personal conjecture is errant.

reply to post by g146541


I don't know how you can describe me if you don't know me, unless your words are a simply product of imagination or an arrogant ignorance. In both cases your opinion is clueless.