I'm a Jew and I'm against Israel. Does that make me an anti-semite?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


The "land-loss" picture has been posted and debunked many times. It assumes that the entire country was "Palestine" which it wasn't. Palestine as a country is an invention of recent times.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

The "land-loss" picture has been posted and debunked many times. It assumes that the entire country was "Palestine" which it wasn't. Palestine as a country is an invention of recent times.

It hasn't been debunked because it's factual.

Please show me one of the many times it's been debunked then.

I edited my previous post btw, you should tell me if you were subjected to the same checkpoints on your travels through Palestine. Are you going to tell me that Palestine never existed next?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Answer to your thread title is yes, because anyone who isn't pro-israel are anti-semite's;
Take this comic as an example, it sums it all up.



Everyone is an anti-semistic "devil". The term has no meaning and is over-used to justify pretty much anything...

I don't think there's anything wrong with you OP,at least you can see whats happening over their,alot of people cant,or wont.

Religion is not a race,so people should stop pretending like it is in their fantasy land.

Religion means nothing,just like life itself.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


You allege your father worked in Gaza - you mean for the UN ? That would have been a very long time ago and guess what mate - Gaza has changed dramatically since his time.

If your father was there only just afew years ago then you are telling fibbies. The Gazans don't allow foreigners in without special permission of the top brass of Hamas and only a tiny handful of them get to see all of Gaza while the other foreigners like those attached to the UN and other charity organisations are only allowed to stay within boundaries set by Hamas Security - that would be the Southern end of Gaza ! Whats in the Northern end is a utopia not seen by most outsiders. You know I have posted many photos of whats really going on in Gaza on many other threads!

reply to post by BillyBoBBizWorth


I think the Op has never been to Israel, nor Gaza and the West Bank!!!

I respectfully submit that being a Jew is not necessarily merely a simple either-or religious fact - since Jewry in many places do not define themselves that way only.

To be a Jew can be ethnicity (many hold that view in Israel). It can be a variant of Torah religion, or it can be a culture. All Jews share some history with Mosaic law - maybe in terms of ancestors.

In Hungary, for example, Jewish people were polled if they regarded themselves as an ethnic group and almost 100% said no. The majority of Jews here are not religious, and some follow other practices (Yoga, Buddhism, rainbow etc.), as they do in Israel. There are many Jewish scientists, and during the times of Communism, many Jews in Hungary were actively Communist for a while - merely because Communists were the biggest enemies of Nazism for a while.

Common tradition here says that people who convert to Christianity are no longer regarded truly Jewish. However, many families converted en masse to stay alive under the growing threat of anti-semitism in the 1920's and 30's, culminating in Nazism. Some held Jewish traditions secretly, some developed a double identity. ("We are Protestant but in reality we are Jewish...")

Who are we here on ATS in the 21st century to deny such people their self-definition - especially when they or their ancestors may have suffered gravely for it?
I know Jewish people who are atheists but define themselves vigorously as Jewish. (And they would be discriminated, persecuted and attacked if any virulently anti-semitic system would take hold.)

reply to post by Kokatsi


Jews are not an ethnic people. They are unified only in religion and not by a unique culture but of many cultures.

The only Jews who share the same culture of the Arabians are the Middle Eastern and North Africans; they are the Sephardic and Mizrachi Jews.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


1. I don't think your research into the history of Palestine has been very deep or broad, if this thread is any clue.

2. There weren't THAT many Palestinians THERE until after Israel began to make the waste places bloom.

3. The Palestinians--actually Jordanians--were denied room in Jordan and elsewhere STRICTLY as an arrogant, greedy bargaining chip by the Arabs to try and take what miniscule bit of land Israel was claiming . . . compared to the many orders of magnitude worth of land the Arabs already had.

4. IF the Arabs TRULY felt that "Allah" was truly Almighty God--munificent, gracious, generous etc., they'd have tried to emulate HIM by giving the Jews--their half brothers--Israel on a silver platter--and Jerusalem on a gold platter. After all--they already had Mecca, Medina and Quom!

5. But nooooooooooo they expect to destroy every last Jew off the face of the earth and take over every last grain of sand--not only from the Jews but from ALL Non-Muslims. They expect the rocks to cry out 'Here's a Jew hiding behind me--come and kill him.' until there are no more Jews left to kill. That's what their FOUNDING DOCUMENTS SAY.

6. Nevertheless, Almighty God is arranging these puzzle pieces though the globalists think THEY are. Almighty God will have them ALL in derision.

7. Almighty God's promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob still stand in force. Those who bless them will be blessed. Those who curse them will be cursed.

8. I guess it depends on whether one wants to be blessed or cursed.

9. The promises play out fully regardless of whether one BELIEVES in Almighty God, or not.

reply to post by bluemirage5

You allege your father worked in Gaza

I said Israel, he also worked in Jordan.

What's your point.

My reference to Gaza was in response to the pretty picture another member was painting Palestine out to be, I merely explained that they obviously didn't go to Gaza or certain parts of the West Bank, or obviously didn't have to wait very long at any check points because they got across the country so darned fast.

I also have family that worked in the Golan (Canadian Military on a NATO tour) in the early to mid 90s. I'm not sure where you're going with this since you read my previous post wrong.

NO, that makes you anti Zionist, which is good!!, the true jew people are not the ones that commit crimes against palestine, or abuse the support of the US. it's the zionist BS that is responsible. That's why I'm antizionist too.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


I've been to the Golan too.....nothing to see there

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

Jews are not an ethnic people. They are unified only in religion and not by a unique culture but of many cultures.

The only Jews who share the same culture of the Arabians are the Middle Eastern and North Africans; they are the Sephardic and Mizrachi Jews.

I like your definition of "many cultures" but I probably interpret it slightly differently. There are many Jewish cultures in Budapest, for example. You could say there are some common traits of Jewish cultures here: a bit more education, culture, a fondness for international novelties, languages, psychology, radio and the arts... You could say in a positive sense that Hungarian Jewry is an important segment of Hungarian cultural elite. Nazism all but exterminated the more uneducated Jewry - outside of the capital, in villages - Jews survived mainly in Budapest and a few larger cities (although I have heard of know people who refused to wear a yellow MagenDavid during the war and survived).
It is rare to find the simple Eastern European Jewish shopkeeper these days. Most Budapest Jews (secular or religious) oppose and fear right-wing antisemitic nationalism, and a lot of people have ties or relatives to/with Israel or America.

Religion is having a comeback, if for nothing else, its beautiful, life-supporting communal life, meaningful rituals (e.g. the elaborate P'sach ritual) and a noted tolerance for children. I thought for a while of converting myself.

I met some religious Jewish people from Israel who did regard Jewry as an ethnicity.
Some strict Orthodox people - mainly those that lived abroad, e.g. in Israel, would go as far as saying that even Reformist Jews were not Jewish. Most rabbis I met here were not like that though. However, definitions are manifold! In my town of birth, a Central European capital of about 2 million, there are hundreds of thousands with Jewish heritage. For historical and cultural reasons, not a lot practice religion or now Hebrew but since discovering roots have been a theme for quite a while, more and more people participate in traditional festivities. I take my daughter frequently.

So it is kind of complex to identify Jewish Hungarians. People who have Jewish fathers will say they are half-Jewish. People with a nonJew father will not, but they used to, because by now they now they would count Jewish according to halacha.

One thing is sure: being a Jew is a definite identity here, it is related to the Mosaic religion but it is not simply identical with it, it exists in the psyche, being a Jew matters and - it is difficult to define. Here Jewish people frequently have weird, German-sounding names - the Austrian bureaucrats of the 19th century are said to be responsible for that.

The truth is found in many narratives. Let me reconstruct something I heard from several friends of my wife.

The friend learns late in her life that she came from a Jewish family. They were hiding as Christians for a while and they pretty much were not religious in the late Soviet dictatorship. Jewishness was still not emphasized in the family during the seventies and eighties due to the still existing antisemitism. Maybe an antisemitic classmate taunted them that they must be Jews then tehy went and asked their parents. Israel was far away, expensive to go, few could make the journey, and the government frowned upon Zionist organizations. She says, "since I am basically Jewish, that explains a few things in my life! So I might go look around in Israel..." When she arrives, she finds there that people will also speak English and she will be classified "Hungarian". "How odd, she says, I never thought of myself like that at home, but maybe because I am Jewish..." On her return, she finds that her pop was only half Jewish. OK. Still here. Contemplating aliya, boyfriend is a factor who does not take this seriously but has probably some Jewish roots themselves... Etc.

You read stories like this in Jewish socilology and you could soon coin the following beautiful slogan:

To be a Jew, it means a thousand cultures.

People that see me here frequently assume I am Jewish. (Actually people still find out hidden relatives from over a hundred years back.)

What you contributed was very interesting.

I wish you would wriite more about what you know as to why certain Jews were never sent to the work camps during WWII while other whole families or villages were.

If you have relatives who were alive during WWII you should ask them to tell you as much possible if they are comfortable doing so because the real people's history will not be available to very soon.

Originally posted by Kokatsi

Originally posted by Pervius
A bloodline that's destined to rule above all as ordained by......

Read your Hebrew Texts. You missed the part that says Ishmael's
bloodline (non-jewish) will have a great nation.

____________________

reply to post by Skyfloating


The world doesn't really care what you do to the poor Palestinians......The thing that scares every body off is the dominating spirit and the endless greed associated with the Zionism...........And if you are not aware of it by now , I feel sorry for you..........As i said before,waking up someone who's really sleep is easy......waking up someone "pretending" to be asleep is another thing.........And by the way do you look any thing like your picture? ..because if so, i would gladly change my minds towards Zionism!..........peace.

it makes you a human being with a conscious.. something that israel will never have nor any israeli ever be.
be proud that you are a human being with a conscious ...

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Err, you had me there until the part where you said that they treat men and women and all other people equally. They certainly don't treat the Palestinians equally like the rest of the Israeli citizens while denying them citizenship rights.

If you had travelled to Israel you would know that arabs (including some Palestinians) and Jews live side by side and not on "the other side of the fence". There are arabs and jews playing in soccer teams together. There are arabs and jews who date. The ones that are on the other side of the fence are the ones opposed to an Israeli state. The wall was built for protection, not discrimination. This is PROVEN by the fact that arabs and jews live peacefully side by side...something anti-semites wont tell you. Where are the threads on this site featuring that? You cant find them. Why?

Because it is BS

Palestinians get shot,their homes buldozerd ,power cut off,imprisoned ,more and more land stolen you name it.And here you are telling everyone that inside the borders of holy israel butterflies fly and everyone is holding hands and are laughing drinking and eating together.

meanwhile in palestinia...

..Their families get evicted,abused,imprisoned,killed...


But in israel they go hand in hand ..

i do not think so.

reply to post by Kokatsi


Yes, Israel is probably the most richly multi-cultural nation in the world and a very successful one at that. It's not without some minor problems but it's a vast improvement to other nations where multi-culturalism is still tender.

Most outsiders assume Israel is a nation of only European Ashkenazis, which is so far from the truth. Israel is made up of Jews from pretty much every single culture known to mankind - except Polynesian.

Yes there was the great Exodus of Jews out of Europe in 1945, but there was also one most people forget, from North Africa and the Middle Eastern Arab nations between 1950 and 1952.

Ashkenaz is an area located around Yazd in Iran,which most high ranked Israelis are originally from ,including the prime minister..........I bet most of you guys didn't know that.