I'm a Jew and I'm against Israel. Does that make me an anti-semite?

My Mom's Christian and my Dad is Jewish. I am part Jewish. I am agnostic and before anyone questions my faith or anything like that I should first point out that nowhere in the Torah does it say that people who don't have mothers that are Jewish but fathers are Jewish aren't considered Jews. It just says that mothers pass on the Jewish lineage.

And where does it say that the father is? But I shall demonstrate, with Hashem's help, that the Torah does say that the mother carries the Jewish lineage.

In the Book of Ezra we learn that a large number of Jews left Babylon to go up to Israel to rebuild Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. Some time later, Ezra the Scribe came up as well. When he arrived, he bagen to teach Torah and the Torah's Laws to the people. He was told that a number of Jews had married non-Jewish women. When Ezra spoke to the people about this, they repented, and agreed to send away their wives and the children they had had with those wives. This is what the people told Ezra (Ezra 10:2-3):

"We have transgressed against our G-d by marrying women who are foreign to the people. But there is still hope for Israel despite this. Let us now make a covenant with our G-d to expel all these women and those who have been born to them, in accordance with the bidding of Hashem and those eager to fulfill our G-d's Commandment, and let the Torah be obeyed."
And indeed, the non-Jewish women and the children they had with them were all sent away. Now, if those children had been considered Jewish, why would they send them away? They sent them away because they were not considered Jewish, because their mothers were not Jewish.

www.beingjewish.com...

Now that that's out of the way I am deeply displeased with the current rhetoric about the Israeli government in America. I think that Ron Paul is the only person who has the correct stance on Israel. I know he is anti-Israel (I've seen him speak to the Iran TV people saying academically he believes that the Palestinians were ripped off) but I actually think that he is right!

They were ripped off. The Palestinians had the land before 1948 but the international community took it away with the Balfour Declaration and the The White Papers. Israel now oppresses these people by putting them into ghettos and taking away their basic rights and privileges such as having electricity and homes and movement.

I think if that the Jewish people should have a state that we need to have one and it needs to follow reformist Jewish principles. If the Jewish government wishes for its state to have a state religion than it should follow the Turkish model. If not, if they choose to be a religious state they should at least not violate the Jewish principles that we can find throughout history, where it teaches to not kill, not to steal and that how we have overcome many hardships throughout history as being part of an exodus movement. Let's not create one with the Palestinians.

Last but not least, I detest Israel's foreign policy, Israel has been involved in many wars, and AIPAC still stays blindly supportive of them, while their settlement issue shows that the Israeli government still hasn't learned from their history yet.

Would people who follow the Jewish bible (much less people who follow the US constitution) really act in such a manner? I do not believe that the Israeli government is representative of all Jewish people. They may be representative of the Israeli people but they do not speak for all of us.

So please, when you think of the Israeli government... don't think it means every Jew supports it. I sure don't. I consider myself half-Jewish half-Christian (my Mom was a Christian, Dad is a Jew), but, I've always disliked the Israeli government ever since I've learned about what it does.

Does this make me an anti-semite? I don't think so.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

I'm a Jew and I'm against Israel. Does that make me an anti-semite?

No, it makes you human.

It's a good thing

Heck no, it doesn't make you antisemitic. I don't' think it necessarily makes you a anti-Zionist either. These are terms that are rarely held to their meaning.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Maybe you should forward that question to AIPAC, ADL or any one of these Pro-Israel Groups:

www.internationalwallofprayer.org...

reply to post by Frankidealist35


no it doesn't
be prepared to be called a self hating jew, though

reply to post by 1nOne


Hmm maybe I should! I really get tired of when people in my classes make a lot of excuses for Israel. They say that we shouldn't criticize Israel because it's the same thing we did to the Indians and since we've done the same stuff it's ok. But what we did to the Indians were wrong and what they did is still wrong too. Do people have any sense of morality when it comes to foreign policy? People act like morality shouldn't apply to foreign policy but perhaps maybe it should...

I say many bad things about the jews,it is not the jews, it is the ZIONIST political agenda i want to attack.
Most jewish people probably over 90 percent are good people and are against zionism.
It is people like JOE LIEBERMAN i cant stand, most jewish people are in a sea of crap
not of there own doing.

love the good hearted people, forget there nationalities.

You make a good point.

Personally, I think that the majority of people realise that it is the Zionists agenda that dictates Israel's Foreign Policy. it's an unfortunate position that there are still ignorant people that cannot see this and tar all Jews with the same brush.

However, what other religion exists where to question any of their beliefs or actions could land you in Prison in most Western Countries? This is where the Zionists have played a clever hand.

It makes you a Self-hating Jew.

From Wikipedia;

[...] where it is used against Jewish critics of Israeli government policy.

Which cites the source as;
W. M. L. Finlay, "Pathologizing Dissent: Identity Politics, Zionism and the 'Self-Hating Jew'", British Journal of Social Psychology, Vol. 44 No. 2, June 2005, pp. 201-222.

I must therefore be a "Self-hating American" because I'm a critic of the American government. Yet most people say that is a sign of patriotism, as in "Tea Party Patriots". Germans who were critics of the Nazi government in the 30's and 40's - and were executed for being outspoken critics of it - we today call heroes. We didn't call them "self-hating Nazis", or "anti-Teutonic".

Why is it then anyone who criticizes Israel's apartheid government is an anti-Semite, or, if you happen to be Jewish, a "self-hating Jew"?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by 1nOne

 

Hmm maybe I should! I really get tired of when people in my classes make a lot of excuses for Israel. They say that we shouldn't criticize Israel because it's the same thing we did to the Indians and since we've done the same stuff it's ok. But what we did to the Indians were wrong and what they did is still wrong too. Do people have any sense of morality when it comes to foreign policy? People act like morality shouldn't apply to foreign policy but perhaps maybe it should...

I was only being facetious: it's probably not the best idea to identify yourself as an American Jew against Israel to people known to be meticulous master networkers and ruthless character assassins. If you ever want a good job one day, you may want to avoid pissing these guys off.

Christian Zionists abound, too, you know, so it's not just a Jewish thing. Most are atheists, anyway, since the bulk of the Israeli-born population can trace their roots to the Bolsheviks.

Hitler was a self hating Jew and so is the President of Iran and i do cringe when the op said " my mom is christian my dad is Jewish".

Which means if you do not live in Israel or had the full fledge upbringing of rockets being shot at you everday it would appear to me that when a person says they are Jewish and have not experienced the racism and the every day life that they go through in Israel.

Well thats like me saying im Irish cause my family is from Ireland doesn't fly i say it does make you an anti semite because like most people they based their views of what other people say.

What do i know.

reply to post by 1nOne


Thanks for the advice. I was also joking about sending the letter to AIPAC but I will still identify as an American Jew (because that's what I was raised as). If anyone asks about my politics I just explain that I have no problem with the Israeli people. I just dislike the government's policies. There is even a debate in the country of Israel right now as to where the country should go (if it should be secular or Jewish) and if we don't speak out we can't influence that.

reply to post by Rockdisjoint


So... confirmed historical facts is considered "making stuff up" now? What has happened to this world?

In all seriousness, none of this post was made up, about my personal life, nor any of the political facts in question. Israel is engaged in highly questionable practices against the Palestinian people. Look it up.

reply to post by neo96


One of the big difference between me and those "others" is that I am neither a mass-murderer or dictator or an authoritarian. In fact I am quite libertarian.

So, careful what you assume.

Not an anti Semite, but it does make you anti Zionist.

No one should say you're against Semitic ppls. You're just against the created state of Israel.
I think there's a big difference.

reply to post by neo96


Hitler was raised Christian. So if he's a self hating Jew, then by your own logic, you are in fact Irish. You're stating Hitler is specifically Jewish due to blood. His grandmother Sarah is what I guess you're referring to. Well if you have Irish blood then what's the difference?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Now that that's out of the way I am deeply displeased with the current rhetoric about the Israeli government in America. I think that Ron Paul is the only person who has the correct stance on Israel. I know he is anti-Israel (I've seen him speak to the Iran TV people saying academically he believes that the Palestinians were ripped off) but I actually think that he is right!

I wouldn't even look at RP as being Anti-Israel. Does he want it's destruction? Does he want to impose sanction on them? No. He just wants them to be able to take care of their selves, because the US can't afford to be their friend picking on smaller children on the playground anymore.

RP being anti-Israel, is a notion that needs to be clarified.

Reply to OP.

No it doesnt make you an anti-semite. But if you study this Forum very carefully, for many years, you will begin to see patterns. Such as 70% of all anti-Israel posters also being anti-semites (anti-Jews is the better term) or coming out of the closet as anti-semites after awhile.

That still leaves 30% innocent anti-Israelis. Most of the innocent anti-Israelis are leftists who dont know that Israel is the only country in the area that treats women, homosexuals, minorities as equals and takes democratic election processes seriously.

Go travel to Israel and then to Arab countries. It will open your mind to reality.