How SOPA (as written) might kill ATS and free speech online (UPDATED)

reply to post by Observor

That is a very cold low blow, friend. Refugees are not synonymous with cowards. My personal example would be the fleeing of my great-great grandparents from Pale of Settlement-era Poland, an area where undesirables within the Russian empire at the turn of the 20th century were sent to live in deplorable poverty. Not unlike the ferrying off of people to Siberia, another destination for undesirable Russians. My great-great grandparents fled abuse, starvation and crushing oppression in that era to start over in the US. It did not make them cowards to do so. Check yourself, friend.

I would like to quickly clarify that the Pale was first instituted in 1791 by Catherine the Great to cordon off Russian Jews, and many others, from the rest of Imperial Russia. If you were not Russian Orthodox, that is one of the god forbidden areas you were dumped in. My great-great grandparents were trapped within the boundaries by birth and had no choice in the matter because they were Roman Catholic. This area existed for over 100 years, it does not mean the residents were cowards. They tried many uprisings, and the failures were not for the lack for trying. Tyranny is horrific.

What freedom of speech? the one missing here in this website?

Originally posted by Nyiah
reply to post by Observor

 

That is a very cold low blow, friend. Refugees are not synonymous with cowards. My personal example would be the fleeing of my great-great grandparents from Pale of Settlement-era Poland, an area where undesirables within the Russian empire at the turn of the 20th century were sent to live in deplorable poverty. Not unlike the ferrying off of people to Siberia, another destination for undesirable Russians. My great-great grandparents fled abuse, starvation and crushing oppression in that era to start over in the US. It did not make them cowards to do so. Check yourself, friend.

I would like to quickly clarify that the Pale was first instituted in 1791 by Catherine the Great to cordon off Russian Jews, and many others, from the rest of Imperial Russia. If you were not Russian Orthodox, that is one of the god forbidden areas you were dumped in. My great-great grandparents were trapped within the boundaries by birth and had no choice in the matter because they were Roman Catholic. This area existed for over 100 years, it does not mean the residents were cowards. They tried many uprisings, and the failures were not for the lack for trying. Tyranny is horrific.

Running away is certainly not bravery. When making macho comments about giving up life before giving up "freedoms", if someone mentions that he/she descended from those who ran for their "freedoms", it doesn't invoke much confidence in the person's claims.

I agree calling it cowardice was extremely distasteful. But I did so, just to bring attention to the fact that they didn't achieve anything great by what they did, nor was it an example for anyone to follow.

People all the time leave places where they were born and move to others because the other place offers them better opportunities. Nothing great or admiral about it. Nor is there anything shameful about it either.

If someone attempts to paint such movements as some admirable quality, it is only fair to point out that they would indeed be classified by adjectives that are less than gratifying.

ETA: Tyranny is indeed horrible. Ask the Native Americans or the descendents of black slaves.

okay second time around made me titter

It seems that since 9/11 and the knowledge of whom are the ones running this nation behind the so call "presidential seat" the puppets in congress has been paid very good by wall street insiders and corporate America, to pass many laws that all together will mean that we are in a corporate dictatorship.

Now the last law passed to hold American citizens without due process should have been the last drop for freedom loving Americans, but no, so far nobody has taken the leadership to bring the corrupted government we have to be accounted for what they are doing, treason against American citizens, now this new law SOPA will be pushed just like the others.

People doesn't get it until they will no be able to be in their Internet or mobile phones on government approved only sites, or been gathered like sheeple into holding cells under the last law.

In America the biggest danger to our Constitution and our freedoms are not the Middle eastern so call "terrorist" but those that government behind a corrupted system of government that we have now.

Look at politics for what it is and has become in America, nothing but joke and a slap on all the hard working tax payer in the nations.

Remember we are the only ones to blame for what Ever comes our way, because is nobody to fight the corruption in Washington.

NO politicians will be in our site, NONE.

It´s really worrying to see that a similar law has just been passed here in Spain, called "Ley SINDE".

Ley SINDE

Like SOPA, it´s aimed at targetting websites that share copyrighted material, and could potentially be a threat to freedom of speech as it could be used to shut down websites at will. What is really scary is the timing, same laws being passed nearly at the same time in the US and Spain. What is less suprising is that it had to be the PP party (right wing) who passed this law, as the previous socialist government refused to do so. Something to expect if you think that PP is still controlled in the shadow by Mr Aznar from his think tank foundation, who has close ties to US big corporations. The net is so wide and goes so deep it´s scary.

By the way, US authorities have already been seizing websites hosted outside US borders well before SOPA was presented, like Roja Directa, that offered links to sport events online, but didn´t host any copyrighted material per se. The website is still seized to this date.

Edit: OT: one quick question if you don´t mind (i just joined). How do you "Flag" a thread? Do you need to subscribe to it, or add it to your favourites? Many thanks!

You cannot hold me or anyone else responsible for what my neighbor says or repeats, over the fence line.

That's what the internet is. It is your fence post you lean on when you want to talk things over, contribute, collaborate, with your cyber neighbor. What SOPA is trying to do is use some newly imagined liability as your neighbor's keeper, to control and constrict where and how and even what can be shared in future conversations.

Dear gov, get out of my backyard and off my property. We will no longer be your enabler for greed to be the sole motivation and driving force, in all policy issues.

For God's sake you legislative lackeys, people are starving in your streets, good people and people who are willing to work; and you are still playing the game to see who wins this round of monopoly by hoarding the most cash.



ETA
reply to post by Jooles


Welcome to the fence line. If you post a reply on a thread, it will show up in your subscribed threads on your myATS. Flagging a thread operates like swarm theory in honeybees. It creates a scent encouraging others to follow and swarm the thread because you found it meaningful or valuable. Flagging a thread does not subscribe you to it. Clicking subscribe or posting in a thread adds it. At least unless and until, SOPA passes.

Originally posted by Observor

I totally concur. However if someone purchased a product under an agreement not to make unauthorised copies and distribute them acknowledging only partial ownership of the property he/she thus acquired and if that person violates that agreement either for financial gain or otherwise and is punished it is correct. If the society grants the exclusive financial benefit privileges to the creator or whoever the creator surrenders such rights/privileges to and punishes someone else for trying to financially benefit from such copyrighted works of another, that too is justifiable. But there is no moral justification for seeking to punish someone who is not trying to financially benefit and has never entered into an agreement with the creator to break it, just for being in possession of a copy of the copyrighted work, much less come out with ridiculous laws that violate people's rights in order to enforce these privileges.

Exactly. I didn't get into the financial gain aspects from resales, but this isn't aimed at re-sellers, it's aimed at sharers. People who distribute what they have without expectation of financial gain. If I own something, it's mine. I can set it on fire, use it to keep my coffee cup from creating water marks, or give it away, . I can do with it what I will if it's mine. I tend not to pay out perfectly good money to other folks just so I can warehouse what THEY own for them. I tend to CHARGE others for storing their property, not pay them for that privilege.That's just me.

Copyright is intended to insure that content creators or their assigns receive financial gain from sales of their creations. There really is no financial transaction to take a cut of with file sharing. CONTROL is the issue, alleged sales or lack thereof are only excuses.

Technological advances always destroy someone's livelihood or another's. No one can claim they are entitled to earning a livelihood in a particular manner because some in the past did. If some careers are no longer viable, so be it.

Precisely. My great great great grandparent made their living hunting buffalo. I seem to be unable to make a living doing that today. Congress has failed to address that issue for me. maybe I need to buy a few more Congress critters?

The only thing the record labels produce is the physical media. They produced something, but they created nothing. The artists do the creating, yet they don't get recompensed proportionally. the labels hog the bulk of the profits, simply for chucking out bits of plastic. it seems unfair to me all around.

How can the MPAA and the RiAA have any "intellectual property" that they didn't put any intellect into creating?

The labels acquire the property and privileges by buying them from the creators. How the profits are shared between the label and the creator is best left to them. If those selling their works to the labels are not being illegally coerced into it, I am not sure it is anyone else's business. I am not saying we cannot have opinions about it, we sure can. But such opinions cannot be the basis for judging the right or wrong of it.

Point taken, but the labels don't really have intellectual property rights to defend, they have tangible property rights. Intellect cannot be bought or sold, I don't care how much money they throw in the attempt to influence their intellect.

However, you are right in that artists can sell (or "sell out") the products of their intellect to anyone they choose to. Once sold, however, they've really got no say in what the buyer does. They've already sold their birthright for a bowl of porridge. Therefore, the creators really have no dog in this fight, and can't claim "injury" if that be the case.

reply to post by Thunder heart woman


I'm working towards insuring my "plastic box" rather than getting ready to trash it, by collecting circumvention tools NOW, before there are sanctions against them.

I ran relays and proxies 24/7 to help the Chinese and Iranians circumvent THEIR Great Firewalls and get out into the world, and I'll be DAMNED if I'll allow my own government to throw the same thing on me. "Legal" or not makes no difference at all. I'm sure those measures were "illegal" in China and Iran as well, but people still availed themselves of those tools all the same.

It would be a bitter pill indeed to have to admit that the Chinese and Iranians are ballsier than Americans, and more willing to push it against the firewall in defending and exercising their freedoms than we are.

Pass the law or not, I'm willing and able to go the route of the time-honored Underground to fight it if the congress critters yet AGAIN refuse to heed the voices of the people and ignore us. They have a habit of that sort of thing lately, you know?

reply to post by nenothtu


FYI: The non-circumvention aspect of the SOPA bill is written in such a loose and broad manner that your post could qualify as the type of content that could get the entire abovetopsecret.com domain blocked without warning or recourse other than a 90 day review process.

Originally posted by DancedWithWolves
... At least unless and until, SOPA passes.

If they really have the nerve of using SOPA to shut down webs like this one, they could be crossing a dangerous line that could get us out to the streets in protest. Sad thing is, that could be their real intention

Many thanks for your help!

I would imagine the bill would go almost unnoticed at first, then once its instated for a while it's only a matter of time until someone starts abusing it. The federal government as a whole appears to think it can do whatever it wants. I already moved out of my parents house a long time ago, I don't intend to have the federal government become my mom and dad and tell me what I can look at on the internet.

GJ to everyone busting their butts to shut this down, if many at all, what is any of these companies like Google and Yahoo doing? Will they really shut down google, facebook(right?) and such in protest? That would probably alarm a lot of people. Where are all the college students at?

Android barcode scanner app detects if products maker supports SOPA.

Decent article with a thorough overview of SOPA.

Stephen Colbert making light of SOPA.

Stephen Colbert and John Stewart are no less than heros for some of the stuff they cover.

Originally posted by marg6043
It seems that since 9/11 and the knowledge of whom are the ones running this nation behind the so call "presidential seat" the puppets in congress has been paid very good by wall street insiders and corporate America, to pass many laws that all together will mean that we are in a corporate dictatorship.

Now the last law passed to hold American citizens without due process should have been the last drop for freedom loving Americans, but no, so far nobody has taken the leadership to bring the corrupted government we have to be accounted for what they are doing, treason against American citizens, now this new law SOPA will be pushed just like the others.

People doesn't get it until they will no be able to be in their Internet or mobile phones on government approved only sites, or been gathered like sheeple into holding cells under the last law.

In America the biggest danger to our Constitution and our freedoms are not the Middle eastern so call "terrorist" but those that government behind a corrupted system of government that we have now.

Look at politics for what it is and has become in America, nothing but joke and a slap on all the hard working tax payer in the nations.

Remember we are the only ones to blame for what Ever comes our way, because is nobody to fight the corruption in Washington.

NO politicians will be in our site, NONE.

Well said! And deserving of a repeat. Unfortunately, what we at ATS are often acutely aware of, the majority of Americans haven't the slightest clue about. The propaganda machine does its job well.

America was made so that WE THE PEOPLE control the government not so the government can control us.Freedom of speech is one of the most vital assets we can have as Humans.Take away free speech and you have a bunch of rats in a cage..we might as well not have brains or voices..no need to think at all.Just "do as we say".Who gave these people the right to dictate what we "lesser" Humans do? oh yeah that is right..the people do..
Of course they want to mandate what Americans do online..less "revolution" less "violent" protesting.Let's just take us back to the dark ages why don't you? the last thing the government wants is more people using their brains.The United states is like "best buddies" with China we give all of our money to them and give away our jobs to them also..it does not surprise me that we want to act like they do and in force laws to create a country just like they have with no free speech..We just love the Chinese so much that you can find Chinese take out on every corner..kind of ironic that "china town" is in New York the "money capital". "“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.”
― Winston S. Churchill. On a different token,I also think that free speech Can also be a bad thing,If just any Tom,Dick, or Harry can just go around saying whatever they want and getting people to just believe it without checking the facts first..There are dangers in having free speech and dangers in having none.Why George I think they got us just where they want us. “When widely followed public figures feel free to say anything, without any fact-checking, it becomes impossible for a democracy to think intelligently about big issues.”
― Thomas L. Friedman

reply to post by Klassified


I know, this site is just one of the many that the corruption we call Government will be more than happy to shut down, because information is the biggest treat to corruption.

Still in America people are very slow, by the time they get the real scoop of what is been concocted behind our backs with so call "protection" "safety" "anti terrorism" laws we the people will be not better than developing communist countries that keep their citizens in shackles.

Because in the US we the citizens can no even come to terms and unify into a common goal to fight govenrment corruption.

The Laws passed in the US comes with many loopholes that are to be exploited at will.

addons.mozilla.org...

I just downloaded Desopa for firefox. Anyone else download this program? Its probably gonna get taking offline soon get it while u can.

ATS is not done. They havent even blocked this website in china like they did with youtube facebook and google.

check your websites out here www.greatfirewallofchina.org...

So in retrospect what do we have then? A huge multi-redundant government that goes after the little guy to protect primarily the interests of big business. Big business is not some proprietership or partnership, it is a big corporation either private or traded on wall street.

Profits from corporate gloablisation have been at stake for a long time. Countries are not really sovereign under this scheme with purposefully low tariffs and a WTO that pushes unrelentingly for a global government. The UN has been infiltrated by ultra wealthy people such as the rockefellers and rothschilds who have nearly unlimited funds to pursue their dubious at best agenda.

WTF is the socialism and why is socialism such a dirty word then when clearly unregulated capitalism is behind the destruction of fair wages because they go after unions, the destruction of the eco-system because they only go after mom and pop outfits, the bribing of government officials in nearly every country, etc

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thanks you for stating your opinion on this issue. Us copyright holders appreciate someone sticking up for the creative process.

We can imagine a time in the near future that only the CREATOR of said original work of music, writing, video etc....would be credited. Where it goes from there is anyones guess.

But thank you for at least supporting those who create, perfom, write and try to make a couple pennies off of copyrighted works. We thank you.

(PS. We DO welcome change and freedom to share and obtain material as new tech comes along).We just want the credit for our creations. Thats all.