'US deploys troops in Israel for Iran war'

reply to post by luxbaclos1


Iraq did not defeat Iran in 1980s. It was a stalemate a costly one for both. The mullahs in Iran decided that they have pushed the aggressor out of their country and any ambition to changing Saddam's regime was proving too costly in men, money and material. So eventually Iran called for peace and withdrew from whatever little territory they held of Iraq. Both nations went back to original borders and end of the story.

Iraq attacked Iran on the prodding of Sunni nations like Saudi, Kuwait and others to keep Iran revolution in check. However after war Iraq found itself in $40B debt and wanted these oil rich nations to pay for it. These nations refused and abused Saddam. Hence he saw no alternative than to capture Kuwait and more so when US gave a fake nod to him that it will stay out of the mess. However, this fake nod was created only to trap Iraq into war on the prodding of Israel as Iraq was proving to be too dangerous for them and talking all kinds of nonsense about burning Israel with his missles etc.

Same Israeli prodding is causing war like scenario on Iran today. I think all Jews in Israel should pack up and leave for US and end of the story and threats of WMDs and endless wars in the region. Only 6 million Jews in Israel so that is a small figure, given that there are 20 million illegals in US anyways and rising continuously.

Other nations like Canada, Australia should also pitch in and provide immigration to Israelis. Arabs will declare victory but then world will have half its stress and fear reduced from constant wars and terrorism. Just my two cents of advise.

Originally posted by victor7
I think all Jews in Israel should pack up and leave for US and end of the story and threats of WMDs and endless wars in the region. Only 6 million Jews in Israel so that is a small figure, given that there are 20 million illegals in US anyways and rising continuously.

Other nations like Canada, Australia should also pitch in and provide immigration to Israelis. Arabs will declare victory but then world will have half its stress and fear reduced from constant wars and terrorism. Just my two cents of advise.

There is actually a simpler solution, a secular state in Palestine (i.e, Israel plus occupied territories). The only losers will be Zionists, who cannot accept your plan either.

In any case, why would the West want to avoid wars or end terrorism, when they benefit from both?

It does all feel like a war in Iran is approaching...

I think the act of deploying troops is evidence enough of war. The question of whether or not was solved, circumventing congress like always, and has been decided. If there was any doubt, they would not have sent them in the first place. War in Iraq is ending and we need a new enemy to justify our military budget. It is actually a legal issue if sending them there for combat purposes before the American congress had the chance to review all options. Illegal war is pretty serious, even if it is for an ally.

Our ally has to make a formal appeal to the citizenry as well as congress and follow due process in requesting troops. A pre-emptive "police" action is at the very least a sign of aggression. This sort of stance is indicative of imminent threat to those we would see "settle down"

reply to post by casenately


The pre-emptive police action that you mentioned become a more strong of a case when this action can be taken care of by couple of billion dollars and no loss of life to the home side i.e. case of Libya.

Until the 3M costs i.e. men, money, material is made to rise by the 'invaded country', the trigger happy folks in WH, Pentagon and Capital Hill will have their appointment books filled up with 'video game' party shoot outs followed by money counting from the resources captured. All the while common person in both invading and invaded country suffers from all sorts of aftershocks.

lightseeker,

You can read all 800+ of my posts and tell me if I have ever claimed to be patiotic.

I don't think you will find one and if you don't think I am patriotic you are entitled to say that because I don't believe in the sort of patriotism you seen to believe in.

Since I was a kid I have thought that the statement "my country right or wrong" sounded ridiculous on every level.

If my country is doing something wrong, my obligation is to speak out about that wrong and try to change it.

A nation is an inanimate entity, like a tree, mountain, or waterfall. With all do respect to those religions around the world that do, I don't think trees, mountians or waterfalls are sacred but they have my respect and I don't want to damage them. Just because I am an American does not mean that I love the United States and I think anyone who says they do has that right but it still sounds crazy to me.

I have much more love for some kid in Alabama who I don't know and will never meet who is going to a school that does not provide him with the same level of education that the poorest school in Israel provides an Israeli kid. To think that a single dime of my taxes helps fund Israel and that Israeli school at the expense of the kid in Alabama infuriates me but not as much as the 40 million American Christian Zionists that would rather US tax dollars go to Israel than stay in the United States infuriate me.

Originally posted by lightseeker

Originally posted by BRAVO949
APOD - I am not just addressing this to you but to the entire segment of American society that think and acts the way you do.

People from all around the world are reading this and many of them are thinking, "Wow, Americans just don't get it!"

You don't get it

But, I do feel sorry for all of you men and women who have been sucked into thinking you are fighting for your country and I actually don't want you to even get shot at let alone killed.

If instead of spending one trillion dollars on military crap and intel BS we spent it on education we would not have to explain to a 25 year old why siding with Israel and attacking Iran is an immoral, unwise and the exact opposite of what Christianity is all about

This is the same type of BS propaganda that the Japanese and Germans used against our troops and citizens during WWII. The same type of hate-filled diatribe that provoked American citizens to spit on and attack U.S. military service members when they returned from Viet Nam. I get the distnict impression from you that you would criticize any military action by our country anywhere in the world, regardless of whether we were taking that action at the request of the country we were entering, (Afghanistan, Israel, Viet Nam). So, because you're view point is so skewered against American military actions in the world and because you are so anti-Israel, I just have to ask: are you pro-Al Queda and pro-Taliban? I only ask because you seem to hate Israel & the American military so much and you are spouting the same type of anti-American drivel we hear from them all the time. Not very patriotic, IMO.

...and by the way, siding with Israel and attacking her enemies is not "the exact opposite of what Christianity is all about" But you wouldn't know this because you have probably never picked up a bible in your entire life. If you had you would know that God has very expressly stated in the Old and New Testaments that those who bless Israel will also be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed and that those who come to israel's defense in times of trouble will be equally blessed..

edit on 1/7/2012 by lightseeker because: typo

Originally posted by BRAVO949
Since I was a kid I have thought that the statement "my country right or wrong" sounded ridiculous on every level.

If my country is doing something wrong, my obligation is to speak out about that wrong and try to change it.

It is kind of funny how some claim that pointing out wrongs is unpatriotic. Anyone who loves his country will want to ensure that it doesn't go wrong. In absolute monarchies, partiotism could be defined as the unquestioning loyalty to the monarch, for the underlying assumption in such a system is that the monarch is wiser than oneself. Not sure how the same definition can be extended to democracies, where the underlying assumption is that everyone's wisdom can be questioned by anyone.

Originally posted by Observor

It is kind of funny how some claim that pointing out wrongs is unpatriotic.

That Genie was let out of the bottle by a Politician a short while ago.
`Your either with us, or against us`
Not much grey area in that quote.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by Observor

It is kind of funny how some claim that pointing out wrongs is unpatriotic.

That Genie was let out of the bottle by a Politician a short while ago.
`Your either with us, or against us`
Not much grey area in that quote.

Of course. But I think "my country, right or wrong" is much older. If kids accuse their parents of not loving them when their demands are not met, that is understandable. But grownups doing the same? Or perhaps some never grow up.

Possibly "that the monarch is wiser than oneself" but for sure, more valuable than oneself.

That is some patriots seem to think that the "flag" or country is more valuable than they are and it is worth giving up their life for.

I don't think anyone's country is more valuable than a single person's life.

No one died in Vietnam for the Unitied States.

No US troop died in Iraq for the US and no one can even enter the discussion room let alone make an argument that an American life was lost in Iraq for the good of the USA.

Amyone who attempts to do that proves the power of propaganda not the depth of patriotism.

The United States has never fought a defensive war - ever but if there is an attack on Iran it might be the single least defendable war of all time.

Just have to remind anyone reading this, if you don't live in the US you don't know how powerful American propaganda is. If you do live in the US but have never lived out of the US - you probably don't know how powerful American propaganda is either.

Originally posted by Observor

Originally posted by BRAVO949
Since I was a kid I have thought that the statement "my country right or wrong" sounded ridiculous on every level.

If my country is doing something wrong, my obligation is to speak out about that wrong and try to change it.

It is kind of funny how some claim that pointing out wrongs is unpatriotic. Anyone who loves his country will want to ensure that it doesn't go wrong. In absolute monarchies, partiotism could be defined as the unquestioning loyalty to the monarch, for the underlying assumption in such a system is that the monarch is wiser than oneself. Not sure how the same definition can be extended to democracies, where the underlying assumption is that everyone's wisdom can be questioned by anyone.

Originally posted by victor7
reply to post by luxbaclos1

 

Iraq did not defeat Iran in 1980s. It was a stalemate a costly one for both. The mullahs in Iran decided that they have pushed the aggressor out of their country and any ambition to changing Saddam's regime was proving too costly in men, money and material. So eventually Iran called for peace and withdrew from whatever little territory they held of Iraq. Both nations went back to original borders and end of the story.

Iraq attacked Iran on the prodding of Sunni nations like Saudi, Kuwait and others to keep Iran revolution in check. However after war Iraq found itself in $40B debt and wanted these oil rich nations to pay for it. These nations refused and abused Saddam. Hence he saw no alternative than to capture Kuwait and more so when US gave a fake nod to him that it will stay out of the mess. However, this fake nod was created only to trap Iraq into war on the prodding of Israel as Iraq was proving to be too dangerous for them and talking all kinds of nonsense about burning Israel with his missles etc.

Same Israeli prodding is causing war like scenario on Iran today. I think all Jews in Israel should pack up and leave for US and end of the story and threats of WMDs and endless wars in the region. Only 6 million Jews in Israel so that is a small figure, given that there are 20 million illegals in US anyways and rising continuously.

Other nations like Canada, Australia should also pitch in and provide immigration to Israelis. Arabs will declare victory but then world will have half its stress and fear reduced from constant wars and terrorism. Just my two cents of advise.

Why should America be forced to take the Israeli's? Only the Americans there should be allowed to come back. But only after they have denounced their Israeli citizenship and pledged loyalty to America if they don't want to do this then they can find somewhere else to go. The rest can go back to their country of origin.

Originally posted by victor7
reply to post by signal2noise

 

There is some truth to your comments regarding Korea and Japan. However, with China the matters for Russia are more in the understanding. China knows very well that without Russian support they cannot standoff against the west along with Japan and Australia on the western side.

What an absolute BS.

China has absolutely zero fear of the west. China is by far, the largest country in the world ... in fact, you might say that the Chinese are too "protective". China isn't seeking world domination, not even Asia domination ... it of course, does some political rattling, to further it's own interrest

Every day, the Chinese army, police, are starting to look more and more, like their US counterparts. Every town in China has McDonalds, and every street corner has Wallmart.

There is more US influence in China, than there is in Europe.

reply to post by bjarneorn


Not dominating asia?

They have laid claim to the entire South China sea and has threatened countries who are doing resource explorations, regardless of the fact the area being explored are not part of the chinese EEZ.

China has sent warships into territorial waters of Japan on several occasions because they want islands back that they claim. They constantly threaten Taiwan while claiming the island for themselves. They have stepped up pressure on Vietnam and the EEZ, apparently forgetting that the Vietnamese army defeated them when they invaded some 30 years ago.

The number of "territorial claims" China is making is fairly extensive, going all the way from their borders with India / Pakistan / Afghanistan / the kerplakistan countries of the former USSR, Tibet, the Mariana Islands, back over to Japan, Phillapines, Vietnam, Malaysia etc etc etc.


As far as fear and the west / US - They do fear the west, however it doesnt revolve around the military. All that needs to happen to drop china is for the US and EU to just stop buying their products. China already has protests, especially in the Western parts of their country, complaining about food, unemployment etc.

Americans want to die for Israel.

I wish this was not true and I beg my brothers and sisters to learn the truth about Israel and learn the true history of Zionsm and how the Zionists are just using the United States like a dumb mule.

The most salient aspect of American propaganda is that Americans don't think it exists.

If you are an American and really wants to die for Israel please find a way to do so that does not involve my tax dollars and make me and my country a legitimate target of hate for the entire world.

reply to post by Xcathdra

As far as fear and the west / US - They do fear the west, however it doesnt revolve around the military. All that needs to happen to drop china is for the US and EU to just stop buying their products. China already has protests, especially in the Western parts of their country, complaining about food, unemployment etc.

That whole scenario of yours could easily be reversed. If China decided to stop allowing slave labor for the Americans to be allowed in their country, the U.S. economy would also take a hard hit. You seem to forget that the Chinese financially own the United States.

China is putting it's foot down and making Tim Geithner do little errand boy visits just to be publicly chastised by the Chinese. This is one of many ways the Chinese are belittling the current U.S. administration. China doesn't seem very bothered while the U.S. seems very frail in the public eye lately.

China doesn't give a squat about Iran, but they do have money invested there and they're sick of the West sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. It's only a matter of time before this backfires for the West. You shouldn't be so ignorantly confident all the time Xcat.

You should spend more of your ATS time speaking out against your country's support for Israel instead of blindly defending Uncle Sam in every ATS thread.

reply to post by Xcathdra

... --- ...
Edited ..... sorry wrong quote.

(deleted)

reply to post by bjarneorn


china not scared of the west? grumpy old man needs a head check..........alzheimers?

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Not dominating asia?

They have laid claim to the entire South China sea and has threatened countries who are doing resource explorations, regardless of the fact the area being explored are not part of the chinese EEZ.

Exploration, really?

China has sent warships into territorial waters of Japan on several occasions because they want islands back that they claim. They constantly threaten Taiwan while claiming the island for themselves. They have stepped up pressure on Vietnam and the EEZ, apparently forgetting that the Vietnamese army defeated them when they invaded some 30 years ago.

And why shouldn't they? You think the Chinese have any less claim on Japan, US, France and Britain, than the Jews or Polish have on Germany?

Shang Kai Scheck fled to Formosa, it's a Chinese territory, always was and still is. Just like Hong Kong ... and they intend to make absolute sure, it stays that way.

Why don't you get real, and tell the Brits to get out of Northern Ireland ... that is about as productive, as telling the Chinese to ignore Taiwan, or the lost Islands. However, if your aim is to point out that they are in a "buffer" zone mentality, similar to Japan and Germany ... than I agree, they have some of that "illness" if we can put it that way.

They are demanding their territory back, and making sure their claim stays up ...

The number of "territorial claims" China is making is fairly extensive, going all the way from their borders with India / Pakistan / Afghanistan / the kerplakistan countries of the former USSR, Tibet, the Mariana Islands, back over to Japan, Phillapines, Vietnam, Malaysia etc etc etc.

And it is quite normal that they do, they have more claim on those territories, than the Pakistanies/Indus have. However, relations between China and India are not at risk here, that is a blatant lie on your behalf.

As far as fear and the west / US - They do fear the west, however it doesnt revolve around the military. All that needs to happen to drop china is for the US and EU to just stop buying their products. China already has protests, especially in the Western parts of their country, complaining about food, unemployment etc.

They have absolute zero fear about the west.

I am not going to quote people here, since I'd have to do research on it. But if I recall correctly, Shank Kai Schecks teacher, commented very well on the issue. Similar to Chamberlains comment in WWI. However, China has the intention, of not allowing the "rape" of the imperial palace, as was done by the british and the french. Nor do they intend to have another incident of the US Navy opening fire on the public in Shanghai. Or to have Nanjing raped by Japanese.

However their failure is, that they "LACK" aggressive attitude.

IFF China was smart, it would make sure the US would take a whipping. It would bloody ensure it does ... because without the US getting a whipping, the US, being the only nation in the world that has ever used nuclear weapons, and the only nation in the world that actively uses radioactive munition. Will most surely wage war against it in future.

So, China is not going to risk anything by aiding Iran ... because it doesn't have that vision.

Not yet, anyway.