New Film Shows "Human Side" of 911 Bastards

Intelearthling,

I think I'll close here, since you obviously think left and right.

I'll say this, though. I really hope you don't commit these "atrocities," because like you say, you are incapable of doing so. I really hope you live up to that.

One more thing. Try to know a little bit more about yourself and others every day.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Intelearthling,

I think I'll close here, since you obviously think left and right.

Thank you for your compliment and you, sweatmonicaIdo, obviously think far left.

I'll say this, though. I really hope you don't commit these "atrocities," because like you say, you are incapable of doing so. I really hope you live up to that.

I can say that I'm incapable of commiting cold-blooded murder. It concerns me that you say you can't?

One more thing. Try to know a little bit more about yourself and others every day.

No one knows me better than I know myself. And the question about others? My motto has always been: "Trust No One!"
And learn about little bit about others everyday? I make profiles on people according to their actions. That's the only thing I need to know about them.




[edit on 11/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by deevee
The demonization of the enemy is often brought up by the left as a vicious and flawed circle and in MOST cases this is true.

This is what the left preaches, but as a matter of fact, demonizing the enemy is the left's "prime directive." Furthermore, you don't even have to be the enemy. You just have to ask honest question. I know. I graduated from the Tulane University School of Social Work.


[edit on 04/9/12 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Thank you for your compliment and you, sweatmonicaIdo, obviously think far left.

Shows what you know.

I can say that I'm incapable of commiting cold-blooded murder. It concerns me that you say you can't?

Because unlike you, I'm not naive.

No one knows me better than I know myself. And the question about others? My motto has always been: "Trust No One!"
And learn about little bit about others everyday? I make profiles on people according to their actions. That's the only thing I need to know about them.
[edit on 11/9/04 by Intelearthling]

I guess that proves everything I said as right.

I realize that I am getting in on this late but I do want to share my thoughts on the matter. The film itself supposedly only portrays the truth and if that is the honest truth I have no problem with the film. The truth may hurt but it is necessary.

I want everyone to think about the terrorists who crashed those plains into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and that field in Pennsylvania. What makes them different than you and me? You may answer that�s simple those guys were sick bastards or another demeaning term.

However, their loyalty was just as strong to their cause as you and I are to ours. They believed what they were doing was just and right. The only thing that makes them bad is our perception. If they win this War on Terrorism America will be viewed as evil and the hijackers of 9/11 will be saints.

Just something to chew on����.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
I realize that I am getting in on this late but I do want to share my thoughts on the matter. The film itself supposedly only portrays the truth and if that is the honest truth I have no problem with the film. The truth may hurt but it is necessary.

I want everyone to think about the terrorists who crashed those plains into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and that field in Pennsylvania. What makes them different than you and me? You may answer that�s simple those guys were sick bastards or another demeaning term.

However, their loyalty was just as strong to their cause as you and I are to ours. They believed what they were doing was just and right. The only thing that makes them bad is our perception. If they win this War on Terrorism America will be viewed as evil and the hijackers of 9/11 will be saints.

Just something to chew on����.

See, that's 100% true. We are different from them yes. But we are not THAT different! They may have done something despicable, but it wasn't like they said "Hey let's go murder people for no reason!"

We have our reasons. We all have our reasons. That's why we all have a potential to do bad things, because we all have our reasons.

That BlackJackel is quite valid! I would also agree with that notion. Additionally, it is both genetics and the environment that shape a person's psyche. A person whose genetics were honed to kill without remorse, could be raised to respect honor, valor, and freedom. That would make one hard core soldier, on the other hand the same person being taught that sacrifice, desire, and hate would make for quite a nightmare of a person. The issue of natural intellegence could be an issue, or not. For example, they could be a well intentioned business owner, or they could also be ill-mannered black marketeer.
For every trait a person starts life with there will always be either a benign path, a neutral path, and a horrific path. Responsiblity of that person based on their experiences predetermines the path dynamically.

Superb wisdom, crystaffur.

To deny our ability to be anything is denying what makes us human.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Thank you for your compliment and you, sweatmonicaIdo, obviously think far left.

Shows what you know.

I just call'em like I see 'em.

I can say that I'm incapable of commiting cold-blooded murder. It concerns me that you say you can't?

Because unlike you, I'm not naive.

And unlike yourself, I know that I could kill some one for the shear "joy" of it. This is what I'm gathering from your information you're handing me.
When a person questions oneself on whether or not they're capable of commiting an act of murder, then that person potential danger to another person. They are in need of psychiatric help.

No one knows me better than I know myself. And the question about others? My motto has always been: "Trust No One!"
And learn about little bit about others everyday? I make profiles on people according to their actions. That's the only thing I need to know about them.

I guess that proves everything I said as right.

I'm glad you think you're right. I think you're on the edge of becoming psychotic.

[edit on 11/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by BlackJackal
If they win this War on Terrorism America

Where do you get "if"?

"They" happen to be an evil force that will be crushed in the end!

America will not lose this war, because we are right!!

[edit on 11/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by curme
It's just presenting their point of view, it's not meant to be agreed with. Ever watch "Natural Born Killers"? Or that movie, I forget the name, that showed the last days of Hitler in the bunker? It's fascinating to watch, to learn, how sick killers think. Don't you want to know why someone would want to do what they did? What they were thinking, feeling? How could anyone do such a thing? Or would you just prefer, "They hate our freedom"? Maybe Ted Bundy loved kittens, but I wonder what was going through his mind?

Exactly, to know your enemy you have to know how they think and what runs through their minds to possibly predict their next step.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
I want everyone to think about the terrorists who crashed those plains into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and that field in

Hold it just a second now. How long have you been on this site? The United States Government made two of those aircraft dematerialize while two miltary aircraft crashed into the WTC while simultaneously firing missles. Flight 93 was shot down by the USAF and a missle of indeterminate nomenclature hit the Penagon.

Obviously, some people never get the word. It's not really funny. It's really quite pathetic.

[edit on 04/9/12 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by BlackJackal
������� The film itself supposedly only portrays the truth and if that is the honest truth I have no problem with the film. The truth may hurt but it is necessary.

����........... What makes them different than you and me? ����.

������ The only thing that makes them bad is our perception. ����..

Just something to chew on����.

who�s truth the only people who could possibly know the truth are currently�.well dead.
They believe that it is not only honorable but noble to kill women and children�not by accident but on purpose.
So folks who target women and children are only bad because of our perception, what kind of a wacky line is that.

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by BlackJackal
If they win this War on Terrorism America

Where do you get "if"?

"They" happen to be an evil force that will be crushed in the end!

America will not lose this war, because we are right!!

[edit on 11/9/04 by Intelearthling]

I also beleive America is right but that is my perception that I share with you. The terrorists think we are wrong and that is their perception. It's all relative.

I saw this film a couple of weeks ago, it was shown on British T.V. It was very unconfortable watching these people plan this thing. And yes they do try to put a Human face on these murderers. Didi i feel sorry for them? No Did sympathise with their cause? No.
But i did gain a better understanding of their thought process and why they did it.
Would i recomend anyone see the film? Absolutally, if only to understand how this happened and how they planned it.

There's also a difference between someone doing something desperate (for example, a man stealing food or medicine for his family when he's broke -- he's not out to hurt other people, just protect his family) and something evil (for example, hurting or killing a person for the sheer joy of it, or hatred of them)...

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I couldn't agree with you more

Tax dollars going to creat sympothy for mass murderers and terrorists - what has this world come to?

your tax dollars??? not one single cent of your 'tax dollars' would have gone into the making of this film as it was a BRITISH/CANADIAN PRODUCTION

just another example of american thinking that it runs the f'ing world and every thing made is made with american money

and to all of you lot who have already made up your mind that it glamorises the terrorist how do you know this....YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT NOR HAVE YOUR EVEN BOTHERED TO DO ANY BASIC RESEARCH!!

If you had taken the time to just type 'the hamburg cell' into google you would have been able to read the reviews on Imdb or on the Channel 4 website.

quote from the guardian :

Until now, no film-maker has tried, perhaps due to a fear that they would be accused of romanticising or mythologising the participants. But British director Antonia Bird and screenwriters Ronan Bennett and Alice Pearman break the taboo with a devastatingly low-key, fictionalised drama-documentary. It recreates the unbearably tense five-year genesis of 9/11, beginning with a handful of expatriate Muslim students in Germany in 1997, drifting into Islamic fundamentalism. It ends as the killers board the planes.

or the edinburgh film festival site (where it was premiered)

Less than three years after it occurred, the events of September 11 have already transcended fiction - to the extent that today, seeing an actor portray Mohamed Atta is a little like watching someone play Hitler, or Napoleon. Famous only for a single thing, and unknown to the world until hours after his death, Atta has become an almost legendary figure, more myth than man. Other than his mug shot, endlessly reproduced in the media, we have no primary sources, no transcripts: no idea what his voice sounded like, or how he walked, or what he looked like when (or if) he smiled. And because of this lack of evidence, to see him represented onscreen here, talking and arguing - like a regular guy - is faintly jarring.

do some research before letting the rest of the world your dumbass american view on the wrold which you really have no idea what you are talking about.

this goes for 99% of the posts on this site, utter garbage most of it. consists mostly of posts about middle eastern males who obviously must be terrorist and the rest are just plain stupid.

saying that the odd post by the more informed and intelligent member of this forum are worth wading through the crap

exploring the "human side" of terrorists is a valid artistic enterprise. these people have to be understood if we are to prevent terror, not just labelled "evil" and left unexamined. for sure, anyone who kills thousands of innocent people is evil, but the analysis can't stop there. it would be like taking aspirin to cure malaria, if we thought we could explain terrorism with simple labels. while such labels are politically convenient for soundbytes, they do nothing to help the fight against terror. i havent yet seen this movie, but i can guarantee you the people *really* involved in the fight against terror, deep in the bowels of the CIA or the DHS, go to great lengths to profile their suspects, to learn about who these people are, what drives them, to make them more than just a map-tack. and if they can do it, why shouldn't we all?

-koji K.

Originally posted by Crysstaafur
Additionally, it is both genetics and the environment that shape a person's psyche.

Well these people's genetics were screwed up and their enviroment was even much more so.

A person whose genetics were honed to kill without remorse, could be raised to respect honor, valor, and freedom.

Maybe you can explain to me how you "hone" a person genetically into a killer?
Killers aren't born. They are made!

Responsiblity of that person based on their experiences predetermines the path dynamically.

You do mean the choice between RIGHT and WRONG?

[edit on 14/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by Intelearthling

You do mean the choice between RIGHT and WRONG?

what�s been pointed out exhaustively is that the definition of what�s right and wrong depends on a simple calculation about what�s in ones best interests and is therefore relative.

You say you are not capable of committing an atrocity but I disagree, you only choose not to commit one because in your mind you�d have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Let�s say for the purposes of illustration that the life of someone you hold dear was threatened and that the only way to save them would be to act in a way that would result in the deaths of some innocent people you dont know. I bet you�d do it.








[edit on 14-9-2004 by transient]