Jesus Christ is the son of the one and only God, our creator.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


This site has the kind of discussion I was hoping to find here in this thread. Credit to Sacgamer25 for providing this link: www.philvaz.com... It was a very helpful page and there was another link also provided in his same post on another that went toward explaining how to be a less literal and more analytical reader so as not to get tripped up so easily. See, that's all I was looking for, just some help to understand the Bible better and not get bogged down in an old ingrained perspective.

I wasn't trying to say God is horrible but that the way I was reading the Bible all my life makes me confused as to how he is portrayed in parts. I know if you are somehow still reading this thread you must be absolutely sick of me by now. I just wanted to post to say I have found the sort of guide I was looking, and praying for. And I can move on now. But it did wound me deeply a fellow Christian could think I was being so ugly about so I wanted to show one last time what kind of help I was looking for. Just because I get confused the same way a nonbeliever does, doesn't mean I am one or share their disrespect.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Cool, so you can pull random sh*t out of the bible for your own purposes, whoopie. Atypical atheist trick to take an entire chapter and print 1 verse and ignore the entire chapter and book which defines the context for that verse

They probably learned that from Christians who actually are worse sometimes, as in NOTurTypical, who I think is the worse where he takes halves or thirds of verses and link then together to look like one long sentence and they are only segments taken completely out of context and I have seen places where he has done this where a sentence is compiled by about as many separate verses as there are words in the sentence.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I forgot to tell you I got Kindle app for my iPad and I can get the book on Kindle next month after we let our budget recover from the holidays and vet bills for one of our pets. The Kindle version is a lot cheaper. I didn't even know I had kindle on this slab until I told my husband about the book and he told me to see the Kindle version price. I miss my pc and I have trouble posting to the forum on this thing but I guess it has some advantages.

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain

iPads are good for reading Kindle.(better than an actual Kindle device, so say the reviewers I listen to, such as the Tech Night Owl, which you can download the MP3's from their web site, and since you are already an Apple user, you would find it interesting since that is mostly what they talk about)
I use the app on my PC and buy some Kindle books.
Some books are less expensive that way but a lot of the type of books I buy don't come in kindle, plus if I can save money on an old used copy I will buy the physical book even if I am only saving a few cents.
Mainly what I use in kindle the most are the Greek versions, where to me it is a lot easier to read that font on my computer than on a printed page.

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain


I wrote the conversation makes me sad, it's because of the perpetuation of evil ideas as being noteworthy when they aren't that is bothersome.

I welcomed your questions even though they weren't questions but accusations. Nevertheless I read the evil bible thing and addressed all 10 of that authors arguments and simply pointed out the fact that not one of the charges of rape, murder, and unrighteous judgment make any sense whatsoever but for some reason you've embraced them as credible.

God isn't who is threatened by the questions, unbelievers who don't know any better are those in danger when believers perpetuate false claims as having credence and that line of thinking needs to be confronted and challenged. The wise hear rebuke and profit from it and I want us to be wise together so I apologize for being harsh to you and making you feel like a bad christian because my hostility isn't toward you, it's toward the spirit of accusing our Father and the spirit of confusion. I apologize for not being softer but a 45 y/o housewife mother who experienced the bible as a youth and is only now a baby christian is something I did not expect so I will do my best to say this as softly as possible; If you want questions answered......go to the Word and search it out completely. It is time we start profiting from rebuke. It is time we graduate from the milk and begin eating the meat of the Word. Our God is anything but a blood lusting, rape condoning, misogynist and to hear Him accused of such is what saddens my heart.

In a soft manner.....there is a difference in discernment and judgment. Discernment is revealing where judgment condemns. When I say I hear a feminist attitude, that would be discernment just as you discerned hostility whether either be correct or incorrect. However, to accuse God of evil is condemnation and judgment by its very nature so be careful when accusing someone of judgment because one might just be condemning oneself by one's own words.

I hope this message finds you shrewd as a snake, but innocent as a dove. mtthw 10:16

p.s. We don't need lessons on analysis to read analytically just let go of all those presuppositions, ask God to open up His understanding unto you, and then simply start reading the Word. It's that simple. It worked for me before I gave anyone the chance to tell me who God is or what the Word says about Him. Nevertheless, blessings in your search for understanding.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Thank you very much for trying to understand my position in this. And yes, at 45 I am a baby in the faith. I've had a long rough road and I was mired in not one, but two very bad church situations with very scandalous pastoral behavior (embezzling, stalking, abandonment of my grandmother by her minister when she got Alzheimers and could no longer tithe) that set me back considerably. I am definitely a case of infertile ground as far as the word is concerned. I'm either the case of the seedling falling in sand or getting choked by thorns, take your pick. But it's never too late to grow and change and that's what I am doing. I do appreciate patience and gentle guidance. I'm a shy person in daily life, the kind who sits quietly in the corner at social functions and just listens. The only time you see me fierce is when I am standing up for animals or children. I can be more mouthy online but not by much compared to everybody else. As you can see I can write long posts but it makes me self conscious and awkward to do so. I post in bursts on ATS, usually retreating for days or weeks at a time because I find the effort at communicating and making myself properly understood so draining.

Again, I don't accuse God of being evil. I'm asking questions about accusations, true, but I'm requesting
clarifications on these accusations. Please remember what is clear to you in your perspective is still fuzzy to me. It is a tremendous blessing to have a clarity of perspective. I thank you for attempting to share that with me.

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain

The only time you see me fierce is when I am standing up for animals or children. I can be more mouthy online but not by much compared to everybody else. As you can see I can write long posts but it makes me self conscious and awkward to do so. I post in bursts on ATS, usually retreating for days or weeks at a time because I find the effort at communicating and making myself properly understood so draining.

I have only just discovered your participation in this thread. I want to let you know that I am of the same kind: fierce when standing up for children or animals. Try not to feel self-conscious and awkward....write long posts, if it takes a long one to get your point across.

I agree with you, it IS draining; it is sometimes positively exhausting (and I don't mean "positively" as ONLY "absolutely" exhausting, but also "productively", a positive thing. )

As far as your quest, and your experiences so far....believe in yourself and your ability to discern/use judgment to separate the wheat from the chaff. The answer lies within you, not outside of yourself....but outside sources can help to differentiate what parts of your "self" are enlightened, or injured, or misinformed.

I'm a believer and a female raising a daughter of my own to also be a believer. But I do have to cherry pick through the Bible as I teach her about God. Someday she will be reading the whole thing by herself and I don't want her to go through the experience I had, a young girl reading about endless slaughter and burning of innocent animals so God can smell them and all the rapes and incest and all the other horrible things being done by people whom God blesses and elevates anyway just because they are Jewish and all the unlucky other people are dehumanized because they happen to be born to a tribe of pagans. Then taking my questions to my pastors to please explain the meaning of it all and how it fits in with the God who in the new Testament wants us to love one another as we love ourselves ... Only to be told basically I'm ignorant and don't understand. No kidding! duh. That's why I was asking those who spent all those years getting degrees to explain it to an ignorant teenager. Now here I am 45 years old and I'm still asking and getting the same answers that I am willfully ignorant amd misunderstanding.

I'd say that you are asking questions of the wrong people. I admire your efforts to guide your daughter to a more healthy and positive interpretation. I believe, for what it's worth, that the Bible is just that....to be cherry-picked. I encourage you to ask questions to people who are outside the "faith"...because those of the "faith" who, when met with challenging questions, resort to blaming you for not understanding, even for being wilfull in doing so, are doing wrong by you. When someone says that, it shuts down all communication, which is their intent. They are unable to answer the questions, OR they are unwilling because they see they are losing their "grip" on you. They are not TEACHERS, they are CONTROLLERS.

If anyone EVER demeans you like that, RUN! and KEEP RUNNING!! That is a MAJOR red flag indicating a striving not for education, but for CONTROL, and that they are NERVOUS. You have challenged their Authoriteye! And it makes them squirm.

Find someone who will really listen, who has experience and knowledge, and will ask you questions to make sure they understand your questions, and most of all VALIDATES your questions as legitimate and worthy of some consideration.....If that person then says "I don't know", or "That's a good question" or "Let me look into it so I can offer you an answer worthy of your question".....then they are worth listening to. It's the know-it-alls who dismiss questions as not worthy of answering who show their true colors.....:by
BLAMING the questioner (rather than ANSWERING the question) and then saying, "You will burn in hell if you don't believe what I say, and I can't be expected to explain that or to repeat myself ad infinitum because you aren't getting it, but .... whatever. Believe it BECAUSE I SAID SO!. OR ELSE!" (= the Bible as tool)

Gimme a break!
--wt

TO THE OP ..I believe you may have been given some responses that may seem like they come from love and caring.. but if you look closely you will see the lessons that teaches people to not have faith in Jesus..and to expect the worst from believers.

Satan is real..as well as Jesus..do not let the false light and love he sends through others deceive you from the tender love of Jesus and His grace..and His spiritual teachers.

I'd say that you are asking questions of the wrong people. I admire your efforts to guide your daughter to a more healthy and positive interpretation. I believe, for what it's worth, that the Bible is just that....to be cherry-picked. I encourage you to ask questions to people who are outside the "faith"...they will invariably, when met with challenging questions, resort to blaming you for not understanding, even for being wilfull in doing so. When someone says that, it shuts down all communication, which is their intent. They are unable to answer the questions, OR they are unwilling because they see they are losing their "grip" on you.

That is so sad..wild times.. the people of the faith that I have encountered often have questions..and I have never seen any one of the Catholics I knew when I was faithfully attending mass..resort to blaming anyone for not understanding..in fact they have much empathy.

The priests I have met encouraged questions and tried their best to answer after even praying about it...and people who are going to church because they have faith in God ..are not under the "grip" .

Op .. pray to Jesus and ask Him to help you understand as well as lead you to others who will help...Jesus is real..and He wishes to help you in all things...but especially in all things spiritual..

HE IS REAL .. so trust in that.

Going to unbelievers about questions in the bible..could be like going to a blind man to ask for a description of the sunset.

If anyone EVER demeans you like that, RUN! and KEEP RUNNING!! That is a MAJOR red flag indicating a striving not for education, but for CONTROL, and that they are NERVOUS. You have challenged their Authoriteye! And it makes them squirm.

If anyone tries to demean you must remember that Jesus would never do that.. and that they are in sin for doing so..so try your best to forgive them through Jesus..and stay confident that Jesus loves you tenderly and will help you. Some things remain a mystery about why God allows things..stay focused on your simple teachings and prayers.

I commend you for teaching your daughter about Jesus and how he is the plan for our salvation. That is such a good and blessed thing.

I will keep both of you in my prayers..that all your needs may be met both spiritually and otherwise.

Never lose hope in His love for you.. and how it pleases Him so much that you are teaching your child about His love and mercy.

Prayer is the most powerful tool he has given us to fight off..the attacks of satan.(despair,guilt,doubt)..as well as the means to open your heart to the Holy Spirit...and ask for its guidance in teachings..and protection from false teaching.

May the love of His Holy Spirit guide you to truth and other souls filled with His loving spirit for guidance..as well as companionship.

Originally posted by gabby2011
.....
Going to unbelievers about questions in the bible..could be like going to a blind man to ask for a description of the sunset.

........

And asking a beliver about a question that is not defined in the bible will cause them to

1) run away
2) respond with a completely circular question that makes no sense
3) respond with bible quotes that have nothing to do with the subject
4) deflect the question with a bunch of off topic BS.

****** a good example of this - which is on topic **************
Jesus is the SON of god.
why is is so many say the holty trinity is bogus, and jesus himself is god?
What is it, only ONE or all THREE?

How can he be both his father, and his son?

Also, the bible is against reincarnation, but yet jesus was crucified and rose from the dead (reincarnation).

Is reincarnation ACCEPTED by christianity , or is it only accepted in this ONE instance.

reply to post by gabby2011

TO THE OP ..I believe you may have been given some responses that may seem like they come from love and caring.. but if you look closely you will see the lessons that teaches people to not have faith in Jesus..and to expect the worst from believers.

The OP said: Jesus Christ is the son........:

Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
Until you accept him as your savior you will not awaken to the reality of the spiritual warfare which has been going on since the times of Adam and Eve.

any questions?

edit on 2-1-2012 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)

I was responding to SheeplFlavoredAgain.
ANYONE who demeans a questioner who asks in good faith is NOT a teacher. They are a manipulating controller.

EDIT TO ADD: I was NOT talking about Catholic priests or Christian preachers in general, I was talking about ANY faith leader that demeans the questioner.

reply to post by wildtimes


I'll bet you a six pack she does NOT respond to my post with an answer that makes sense!


U2U me if you want to take the bet!

OR....just to stay on topic....

3 six packs, if you believe in the trinity

reply to post by wildtimes

I was responding to SheeplFlavoredAgain. ANYONE who demeans a questioner who asks in good faith is NOT a teacher. They are a manipulating controller.

EDIT TO ADD: I was NOT talking about Catholic priests or Christian preachers in general, I was talking about ANY faith leader that demeans the questioner.

I agree..in anything we are trying to learn it is not right for teachers demean someone with sincere questions.

The only thing I read is that you encouraged her to people outside the faith to ask questions about the bible.. because those within the faith would demean her.

That is where I did not agree with you.. perhaps you could show me what I did not understand about the words below

I encourage you to ask questions to people who are outside the "faith"...because those of the "faith" who, when met with challenging questions, resort to blaming you for not understanding, even for being wilfull in doing so, are doing wrong by you. When someone says that, it shuts down all communication, which is their intent.

so according to the above you were meaning christian leaders that would make her feel guilty and demean her.. which is why you are encouraging her to go outside the faith to have her questions answered.

Originally posted by vogon42
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I'll bet you a six pack she does NOT respond to my post with an answer that makes sense!


U2U me if you want to take the bet!

OR....just to stay on topic....

3 six packs, if you believe in the trinity

edit on 6-1-2012 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)

How sad you mock God with silly bets and booze..

Not sure who you are referring to about answering your question.. but just to let you know..if it was me..

I've decided not to waste anymore time with you.. you do not care sincerely about answers..and only use questions to bait and stroke your own ego..

I will continue to pray for you though.

reply to post by gabby2011

which is why you are encouraging her to go outside the faith to have her questions answered.

CORRECT. To go OUTSIDE of whatever Christian or Bible-based "faith" denomination she is in that has leaders who demean her. I don't care what subscription to the Bible ANY of them have, as long as they are respectful, kind, and accepting of questions.

Is that clear? Any other questions?

Originally posted by gabby2011
I've decided not to waste anymore time with you.. you do not care sincerely about answers..and only use questions to bait and stroke your own ego..
.............

Ha ha ha........how funny. Just when I was about to respond to your quote of........

Originally posted by gabby2011

so according to the above you were meaning christian leaders that would make her feel guilty and demean her.. which is why you are encouraging her to go outside the faith to have her questions answered.

edit on 6-1-2012 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

Saying YES gabby we see you do this ALL the time. If there is a question not answered in your bible, you run away, or change topic, or twist the subject.

How are we to believe your word that Jesus is the one, when you cant even get the story straight?

******** once again I will seek the truth, and ask ***************************
And asking a beliver about a question that is not defined in the bible will cause them to

1) run away
2) respond with a completely circular question that makes no sense
3) respond with bible quotes that have nothing to do with the subject
4) deflect the question with a bunch of off topic BS.

****** a good example of this - which is on topic **************
Jesus is the SON of god.
why is is so many say the holty trinity is bogus, and jesus himself is god?
What is it, only ONE or all THREE?

How can he be both his father, and his son?

Also, the bible is against reincarnation, but yet jesus was crucified and rose from the dead (reincarnation).

Is reincarnation ACCEPTED by christianity , or is it only accepted in this ONE instance.

reply to post by vogon42

Also, the bible is against reincarnation

What gives you this idea?
It just does not endorse it.
Jesus was not reincarnated.
Jesus incarnated as the Baby Jesus where previously he was some sort of spiritual being.
Jesus was raised from the dead by life being restored to his body.
My understanding of reincarnation would be for a person to die and their spirit or whatever going into a new person as a baby, That never happened with Jesus so I don't know where you get this idea that Jesus was reincarnated.

There is one person on this forum who does not believe in the trinity but obviously he is in the minority and not even considered a Christian by normal Christians.

reply to post by wildtimes

CORRECT. To go OUTSIDE of whatever Christian or Bible-based "faith" denomination she is in that has leaders who demean her. I don't care what subscription to the Bible ANY of them have, as long as they are respectful, kind, and accepting of questions.

Is that clear? Any other questions?

It is now.. but how you originally posted it..it seemed to imply that she should go outside of Christian faith to get answers on the bible.

Happy you cleared it up.. for both me, as well as her..and others who may have misunderstood.

reply to post by vogon42


There are many mysteries to God we may not understand.. Vogon..

I can see this in the miracles God performs through people like Padre Pio..and the miraculous things He has done for some.

If you sincerely wanted to know answers with your mind and your heart.. you would sincerely ask the living God to help you.

Instead you make a sport of trying to trip up believers with questions that may not be understood so well with the average human mind.

It is the heart that God concerns himself most with..and He gives discernment to those who love Him about the folly of engaging in futile conversations and discussions with those who only wish to mock Him and disprove Him.

God in His infinite love for you would want you to go to Him in prayer and a humble heart, so that He would reveal what He knows you can understand.

I do not understand everything about God ..or His word Vogon.. But I am learning His love..and He shows me me who is sincere in questions.. and who does it just to bait and try and torture His believers.

His mercy is great..and His justice is just.

reply to post by gabby2011

ya now what gabby

To you and jdewey BOTH.......sod off! I'm done trying to make sense of this religion of yours. I can honestly say I gave it another chance......but it failed.

My original experience with YOUR religion, at a very young age was filled with nothing more than Greed, and the "I am better than you" attitude, browbeating, preachers instilling fear......and all stuff that REALLY borderlines child emotional abuse.

25 years later............yes TWENTY FIVE YEARS.....I decided to give it another try. And I see the SAME Results.

You know what......I.m not 9 years old now.
If I ask a question, HOW DARE YOU slap my wrist and call me bad child.

NOTHING has changed, I ask a LOGICAL question any YOU Christians act like I just committed some sin. WHAT is wrong with seeking knowledge???

If yours is the true religion, I would rather burn in hell, than have to put up with such ignorant, egotistical nonsense.

I'm glad hell only exist for your type......because you deserve it.

reply to post by vogon42

Ya know what......I.m not 9 years old now. If I ask a question, HOW DARE YOU slap my wrist and call me bad child.

I am not doing that.. merely saying that you should come before our Father and ask Him through the mercy of Jesus.. what some answers may be..

From what I see here.. most of what you say and ask is in a very mocking way..

Be honest with yourself Vogon...have you really and sincerely sought Him out in prayer and humility?

maybe you have.. but I will tell you this.. if you are searching always for answers in humanity.. you will be truly missing out on the Love and wisdom he has to offer.

There are many sinners who Go to church..just as in your youth. these are humans.. they are not God..and to judge God by the conduct of those who are not in His will ..will not lead you to His truth.

Humans are prone to the weaknesses of sin.. but for those who continuously search their hearts and ask God to forgive them..He will.

To you and jdewey BOTH.......sod off! I'm done trying to make sense of this religion of yours. I can honestly say I gave it another chance......but it failed.

Maybe you need to stay out of threads that glorify the name of Jesus as God..if you feel so strongly about it...because mocking it like a pouting schoolboy is only going to get you replies that end up with you telling others to "sod off".

If it failed..be a grown up and don't even join in on the thread... that has Jesus is Lord as its title.