Fighter Planes? Please. Sukhoi! This discussion is over

OK ladies, I understand that you are usually Inclined to believe what Eurofighter or Boeing or Mcdonnell Douglass tells you, but in the case of Aircraft and aircraft power? let me slip you guys a few bones here. Those of you with fascinations with the Raptor and the Joint Strike Fighter, get up off your soap box, take the 10 cents in your violin case and get the heck out of dodge. There are immense, IMMENSE problems with the Raptor, and cataclysmic ones with the JSF. A lot of the problems of late have had to do with A: Thrust, Meaning that if, oh, say that one engine on your JSF drops out, the ground crews will get to put your remains in a ziploc bag and serve it to the Mechanics for lunch
B: Anomalies where the radar jamming and "stealth" abilities quit, and made the plane look visible like a modern art painting
C: THEY ARE SO IN-FRIEKIN CREDIBLY EXPENSIVE!!!! Other countries in the world are able to produce EFFECTIVE fighter intercepters and attack aircraft for one third of the price. And whats to say that a "friendly" patriot missile battery will not mistake the plane for an ICBM and shoot the poor bastard out of the sky. Nothing. If you can't tell, I have SERIOUS Issues about U.S. Superiority aircraft. Oh, and you fans of the typhoon and Grippen.....they look cool, but, like a box of white castles, they hold no special meaning, hidden powers, or anything that would save them from a worthy adversary. Believe me, i have seen these planes. Up close. I was at farnsbourough when they showed the Sukhoi 37, the grippen, and were hyping the raptor. I didn't see the Raptor or Grippen perform acrobatics, manueverability, or speed that would have made superman crap his pants.. The answer is the Sukhoi flanker series. that is all.

What a complete load of tripe, guess you've not seen the Raptor do velocity vector rolls at 45 degrees alpha, do Cobras and tailslides, exactly the kind of supermaneuverability that your Flanker has.

The Su-35/37/47 is nothing more than a shell with a flight control system nothing more. I'm not surprised though, since many Russians are biased towards anything that we make. You really gotta get the facts straight kiddo.

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Hockeyguy567]

That first post was utter drivel. "Cataclysmic" indeed! Are you a salesman in the pay of the Russian fighter industry? America does make excellent fighters, currently their best are THE best, and you haven't been as close to the Typhoon as you think if you believe that it has 'no tricks' as you put it.

Yet another person who has no grasp of just how complex the development of new fighters is, or of how problems arise, and are solved, all the time.

You are entitled to debate the strengths of the Sukhois, of which there are many, but if you have to start the debate by making ridiculous, negative and false claims about the competition you have lost that debate instantly. Go think again.

[edit on 10-9-2004 by waynos]

what was the purpose of this post???? Was it to try and spew your russian propaganda?

you didn't prove anything at all other than the fact that you have an opinion, and you know what they say about those

Don't get me wrong, I like the looks of the Su30 series. The vectored thrust, the canards and tail planes.

.....and they look mean as hell. Kudos Sukhoi. I believe they are said to perform well, they're reliable, surprisingly cheap, carry a very impressive load and by all accounts they meet their mission requirements well too.

Probably not very impressive on the stealth front though.

(although from what I recall of the Tornado program when RAM was applied by people who knew what they were doing the results were rather impressive and surprising......from some angle amazingly surprising even. So who knows?)

Electronics/computers would be an area where I'd want to strip out most of the original fit too.

As for the FSW Su37/47 Berkut thingy?

Yeah, interesting prototype and all but I wish people would pack their over-excitement about it in.

The word is the Russians are moving on. It isn't going anywhere. It's not in production now, it's not going to be in production soon it's never going into production.

We await the next demonstrator with interest.

Originally posted by MPJay
What a complete load of tripe, guess you've not seen the Raptor do velocity vector rolls at 45 degrees alpha, do Cobras and tailslides, exactly the kind of supermaneuverability that your Flanker has.

The more important aspect is: So What. The Cobra looks awesum at the airshow, but is it really a combat proven manuver? Killing off all your energy in fancy manuver makes you a sitting duck for the guys wingman.

ok i cant resist this.
the JSF is a fine plane.
every plane has problems at the start its normal. hell the spitfire had problems and thats the worlds most well known fighter.
also the raptor is a nice plane i have to admit i dont really favour it but its a good plane.
russian planes are ok but you got to realise they are cheap and designed to be used in large numbers to swarm an enemy.

I kinda think that this discussion is pointless in that any piece of tech has strengths and weaknesses, especially when advanced. Even comparing cars of the same approximate class is pretty much futile. What is better, a VW or a Honda?

Originally posted by Just a Plane old dude
. And whats to say that a "friendly" patriot missile battery will not mistake the plane for an ICBM and shoot the poor bastard out of the sky. Nothing. If you can't tell, I have

SERIOUS

Issues about U.S. Superiority aircraft. Oh, and you fans of the typhoon and Grippen.....they look cool, but, like a box of white castles, they hold no special meaning, hidden powers, or anything that would save them from a worthy adversary. Believe me, i have seen these planes. Up close. I was at farnsbourough when they showed the Sukhoi 37, the grippen, and were hyping the raptor. I didn't see the Raptor or Grippen perform acrobatics, manueverability, or speed that would have made superman crap his pants.

. The answer is the Sukhoi flanker series. that is all.

also the typhoon is a beatiful polane id like to see the flanker super cruise,oh wait it cant.
also the gryphen had tech on it 15 years the US and the USSR didnt have on paper
also the raptor has stealth something a flanker doenst have and nethier does the flanker have the tech the raptor has.
yeah you saw some pilots who didnt it thrugh top moves WOW! well done you want a medal for that.

while still not stealth, i saw on a documentary that the su-27/30/33/35/37 series have a RCS 18 times smaller than a F-15.

just thought it was an interesting fact,

drfunk

I have a hard time believing the RCS is that much smaller, granted it doesn't have as many of the sharp angles the Eagle has, it still has the gaping maw of straight ducts right to the fan of the engines, that's a massive signature return by any accounts all by itself. Plus all the weapons it carries, each having fins with are set 90 degrees apart from each other. Not my idea of low RCS. The Eagle's raked (and articulating) intakes still have a higly reflective front lip which is a definate downside for that design. On the Flanker there's the multitude of protruding rivets that all Russian aircraft seem to have in spades. I would imply their relative RCS figures are fairly close, especially when carrying a warload.

LOL. The raptor is the best plane in the world, everyone knows it but you.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
LOL. The raptor is the best plane in the world, everyone knows it but you.

second best!
rem thr YF 23!

A SU-27M shooting flares at an airshow in Moscow.



SUKHOI Su-35 (Su-27M) Flanker

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by American Mad Man
LOL. The raptor is the best plane in the world, everyone knows it but you.

second best!
rem thr YF 23!

Dollar for dollar, the F-22 is superior.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by American Mad Man
LOL. The raptor is the best plane in the world, everyone knows it but you.

second best!
rem thr YF 23!

The Black Widow II was a sweet plane. Nobody can say Northtrop cant build a fighter and then throw in McDonnell Douglas and you got a great combo. I dont know why Northrop hasnt got a fighter contract in a long time if ever. The make sweet bombers though and some sweet UCAVs are comming.

My favorite angle of the YF-23 man that thing looks good like that


[edit on 10-9-2004 by ShadowXIX]

Yeah - the YF-23 is better, but won't see production. I was assuming operational planes


And yeah - that is BY FAR the sweetest pic of the Widow..... God she is sexy

Umm... the F/A-22 hasn't even entered service yet. So the question of whether it's the best plane or not is up for grabs.

You guys don't like "Russian propaganda," don't spew American propaganda. And stop grading something that hasn't been combat-proven yet.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Umm... the F/A-22 hasn't even entered service yet. So the question of whether it's the best plane or not is up for grabs.

You guys don't like "Russian propaganda," don't spew American propaganda. And stop grading something that hasn't been combat-proven yet.

It isn't in active duty yet - you are right.

However it is currently being used by the 411th Flight Test Squadron at Edwards AFB, and will enter full service in December. Last time I checked 24 had been delivered.

So I guess around Christmas this year, we can all safely say that the Raptor is the best fighter in the world