chemtrails over Florida 01-01-2012

Here is the video from today:

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by onecraftydude

 

I want it mandated to get rid of them.

Why is it a "I want" or "My desire"??

"Me"...."I", over and over?

This is like "demanding" that the weather never change, or that the Earth stop rotating, just so *you* can have constant sunlight for *your* personal "needs"!

I am being intentionally silly and pedantic of course.


So, what, precisely, are the adverse effects on solar panels' performance merely due to some contrails?? (In percentages and actual, verifiable numbers). [***] You do realize that even without any airliners flying, cirrus clouds will form too, right?

[***] I decided to do a Google search for the answers....just referring to clouds......Here:

www.solarhome.org...

How well do solar panels work in cloudy conditions?

A cloudy day provides sufficient diffuse light by which the panel will produce electricity. Optimum electrical production occurs with bright and sunny weather conditions. Under a light overcast, the modules might produce about half as much as under full sun, ranging down to as little as five to ten percent under a dark overcast day. In remote, off-grid applications, a PV system is connected to a battery storage system as a backup power source. In grid-connected applications, the PV system works in parallel with the utility power grid.

I see the term "light overcast" there to mean the types of clouds such as low stratus layers (usually near the shores). Where there is much diffuse light, easy enough to see (no headlights needed on your car, at Noon, say). A "dark overcast" would be a heavier layer of clouds, usually to include cumulus and rainclouds. When, even at Noon, you are obliged to turn on your car headlights, for better visibility (others can see you better, is why it's a good idea then).

You also (in terms of solar energy" might as well "complain" about the seasons, too.....and shorter periods of daylight hours in winter time!!

How well do solar panels work in the winter?

Solar panels work on light not heat. With shorter daylight hours in winter, solar panels produce proportionately less power....

Of course, as mentioned above, with the proper battery storage technologies, and/or supplements from a utility power grid (as mentioned above) then the occasional days of airplane contrails should have little impact --- when you consider the very natural variations in weather that occur anyways.


Another informative website:

How Do Clouds Affect Solar Panels?


But as to the "demand" and "wanting" contrails "gotten rid of"? There is simply no cost-effective method that is acceptable from economic and convenience standpoints. Airlines are a business. They hang on a narrow edge of profit/loss as it is.

Air quality concerns are already looming.....the actual compounds and molecules in the exhaust gases, from burning petroleum fuels. (Of course, there is FAR more pollution from all the hundreds of millions of personal and commercial ground vehicles than produced by all of the jets on Earth).

Those gases are worse.....Carbon Monoxide, Carbon Dioxide, Nitrous acid, etc.....than a bunch of water vapor that occasionally freezes to form cirrus clouds......but, when compared to autos and trucks and motor scooters and even gas-powered lawnmowers?? Not to mention the factories and industrial sources of air pollution too??

We use fossil fuels, and until there is a cheaper and technologically feasible alternative fuel for our transportation devices, this will remain the case.

edit on Mon 2 January 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)

Thank you for doing the legwork to support what I have documented. My solar output is half of what it would be without the chemtrails just as your reference points out.

I noticed a large increase on Christmas day.

I from Utah but spent Christmas up in Idaho. I took a few photos.

The have picked up in Utah as well. The last day that was considerably noticeable was Oct 23.

reply to post by JAY1980


I guarantee you saw jets orbiting for whatever reason (generally this is an Air Traffic Control thing) but, could also be photography flights of some type, or any other type of special flights. Maintenance test flights happen occasionally. And, they were simply forming normal persistent contrails.

The "only a few hundred meters" apart would be somewhat accurate in terms of altitude, since 1,000 feet is minimum.

"Orbiting" I used in the sense that there are various ways that ATC can cause delays, when they need to, in order to better sequence the traffic flows. They can simply tell a flight to do one 360° turn, or can specifically assign it to a holding pattern, which is done over a specified navigational fix. They can even simply say, if very busy, "Hold present position" and that will tell us to instruct the Flight Management Computer to select that spot, and "draw" a Holding Pattern. When no turn direction is specified, then right-hand turns are standard. In Instrument Flight Rules, whenever assigned a Holding Pattern, a time must be supplied to "Expect Further Clearance" from ATC. A simple 360° circle, no EFC required, since it's presumed if radio contact is lost that you will continue on your way, complying with the last clearances received.


Anyway.....

Next time you see something similar (and, any flights which are circling or in Holding Patterns on days when persistent contrails aren't being made, you likely won't even notice) you can use FlightAware, and see them as they fly real-time (7 minute delay, actually):

flightaware.com...

You can learn a lot from that site.....there are historical records kept of the flights, fr several months...,if you can find the flights. After the fact, from this morning, we'd have to know their ATC call signs, or a departure/destination airport, and could find them that way. But, if you see them as it's happening, then you can pick them out easily on the site.

Alternatively, if you think it would get you answers, you can always try to contact the Denver ARTCC directly.....the facility is physically located in Longmont.

The FAA Directory is easily obtainable from the Web. Link embedded.

Perhaps someone there would answer when you see a flight circling, and tell you immediately what is its ID.

reply to post by onecraftydude


Does your output change when it is cloudy? If the so called chemtrails do this then it would do the same thing when it clouds up, correct? So then your chemtrail comment has no validity in it. Also you say you don't know what was in these chemtrails or how they form yet you constantly keep calling these chemtrails why?

Just wondering what part of Florida you are in if your in Fla?


Sorry just thought I would add a link for you to see even more contrails..Use the slide show option at the top...

www.flickr.com...

reply to post by onecraftydude


In just the first 30 seconds of your narration, you state a falsehood.

When you say that the "trail should not exist in these conditions".....you prefaced with stating that a high pressure system is over Florida, your region.

The high (or low) pressure has absolutely nothing at all to do with contrails. (You also mistakenly keep referring to the contrails as "chemtrails". But, then you rightly call them cirrus clouds. Can't have it both ways....they are cirrus clouds).

Although, based on the brightness of the sun light, I don't see the "concern" regarding the solar panels??

Your notes on the video are comprehensive, which is good to see on these sorts of videos....although the statements are more opinion than factual:

There seems to be an argument over the existence of persistent contrails in certain weather conditions. Yesterdays weather patterns were supposedly perfect for the formation of persistent contrails, but today we have high pressure and the likelihood is small. There are still chemtrails clouding the entire sky during the day blocking sunlight.

What did you base that on? Did you check any of the weather balloon (radiosonde) [***] upper atmosphere readings? Merely saying (as I mentioned) "weather patterns" means, usually, you are talking about conditions on the surface...not at high cruising altitudes.


[***] Here, a website you can view to see radiosonde readings around the US (and other parts of N. America and Pacific and Caribbean, too):

weather.uwyo.edu...

I would like to see a federal mandate by the FAA addressing persistent contrails and limiting where they can be and how long they can exist over populated or agricultural areas. I think the bill should include heavy fines and be initiated immediately.

Nice dream......totally impractical, and frankly, completely unnecessary.

The current impact is 50% output reduction in solar power and unknown reduction in farm crops.

Agricultural impacts, now? Bit of a stretch, and part of the paranoid hysteria that is spewed out on many "chemtrails" websites. The data is actually showing not that much of a difference.....it is generally exaggerated by "those" websites, much as the debate rages over AGW, "carbon offsets", "carbon footprints", etc.

The light attenuation from cirrus clouds (contrails) is certainly minimal (since t doesn't happen very day) in terms of photosynthesis abilities for plants....they have evolved on this planet, and particular climates, so they are accustomed to variety of weather and cloud conditions.

SO, absent a gigantic volcanic eruption (or asteroid impact...yikes!) that would cause a tremendous quantity of matter to be sent into the upper atmosphere, and linger for weeks, months or even years...the "Nuclear Winter" scenario.....the occasional contrail activity, and resulting cirrus clouds, are just a "blip on the radar" to a photosynthetic plant's life cycle.

That alone should be enough reason to implement a plan to fix this. I don't care what your opinion is as to why they are there, I am only concerned that people need to get together to stop this and too many are all accepting of the clouds without realizing their impact on us all.

Just a bit of an over-reaction, dontcha think??

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by onecraftydude

 

Does your output change when it is cloudy? If the so called chemtrails do this then it would do the same thing when it clouds up, correct? So then your chemtrail comment has no validity in it. Also you say you don't know what was in these chemtrails or how they form yet you constantly keep calling these chemtrails why?

Just wondering what part of Florida you are in if your in Fla?

edit on 2-1-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)

Sorry just thought I would add a link for you to see even more contrails..Use the slide show option at the top...

www.flickr.com...

edit on 2-1-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-1-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)

You failed to associate a cause and effect argument. Of course clouds cause the same effect with reduction in performance of my solar panels, but those caused by airplanes are the ones I am referring to in particular. Your answer to my comment has no validity, lol.

I choose to identify them as chemtrails since I believe there are vapors responsible for their existence over long time-frames. I could call them persistent contrails, but I prefer the chemtrail monicker. This is my opinion from observation of trails and the colors refracted through them denoting different gasses or elements which refract light at different wavelengths. It is only my opinion.

I live 60 miles south of Jacksonville so northeast Fl.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by onecraftydude

 

In just the first 30 seconds of your narration, you state a falsehood.

When you say that the "trail should not exist in these conditions".....you prefaced with stating that a high pressure system is over Florida, your region.

The high (or low) pressure has absolutely nothing at all to do with contrails. (You also mistakenly keep referring to the contrails as "chemtrails". But, then you rightly call them cirrus clouds. Can't have it both ways....they are cirrus clouds).

Although, based on the brightness of the sun light, I don't see the "concern" regarding the solar panels??

Your notes on the video are comprehensive, which is good to see on these sorts of videos....although the statements are more opinion than factual:

There seems to be an argument over the existence of persistent contrails in certain weather conditions. Yesterdays weather patterns were supposedly perfect for the formation of persistent contrails, but today we have high pressure and the likelihood is small. There are still chemtrails clouding the entire sky during the day blocking sunlight.

What did you base that on? Did you check any of the weather balloon (radiosonde) [***] upper atmosphere readings? Merely saying (as I mentioned) "weather patterns" means, usually, you are talking about conditions on the surface...not at high cruising altitudes.


[***] Here, a website you can view to see radiosonde readings around the US (and other parts of N. America and Pacific and Caribbean, too):

weather.uwyo.edu...

I would like to see a federal mandate by the FAA addressing persistent contrails and limiting where they can be and how long they can exist over populated or agricultural areas. I think the bill should include heavy fines and be initiated immediately.

Nice dream......totally impractical, and frankly, completely unnecessary.

The current impact is 50% output reduction in solar power and unknown reduction in farm crops.

Agricultural impacts, now? Bit of a stretch, and part of the paranoid hysteria that is spewed out on many "chemtrails" websites. The data is actually showing not that much of a difference.....it is generally exaggerated by "those" websites, much as the debate rages over AGW, "carbon offsets", "carbon footprints", etc.

The light attenuation from cirrus clouds (contrails) is certainly minimal (since t doesn't happen very day) in terms of photosynthesis abilities for plants....they have evolved on this planet, and particular climates, so they are accustomed to variety of weather and cloud conditions.

SO, absent a gigantic volcanic eruption (or asteroid impact...yikes!) that would cause a tremendous quantity of matter to be sent into the upper atmosphere, and linger for weeks, months or even years...the "Nuclear Winter" scenario.....the occasional contrail activity, and resulting cirrus clouds, are just a "blip on the radar" to a photosynthetic plant's life cycle.

That alone should be enough reason to implement a plan to fix this. I don't care what your opinion is as to why they are there, I am only concerned that people need to get together to stop this and too many are all accepting of the clouds without realizing their impact on us all.

Just a bit of an over-reaction, dontcha think??

edit on Mon 2 January 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)

This is why I did not want to debate the topic of contrails/chemtrails. There are two sides and both think they are right and refuse to listen to the other. Sounds like our country as a whole to me.

I did show a 50% reduction in solar output from cirrus clouds caused by airplanes and this would translate to plant growth to some extent.

If I want to call them sky turds that should be ok as long as we both know what I am referring to. If I say contrail people might think of a normal trail that dissipates rapidly which these clearly do NOT.

Regardless of how atmospheric pressure and moisture affect airplane exhaust and the nomenclature used to describe what is visually represented, the fact remains that these clouds are caused by airplanes and reduce solar output by 50%. That alone should warrant a change. I don't think this is over-reacting.

I am old enough to remember cars that belched smoke constantly and the smell of coal fired furnaces and the black muck left on the snow. That is a memory now due to strict regulations which forced engineers to look for ways to fix the problem. When enough people agree that something is wrong things start to happen. Arguing about what it is or where it comes from is a moot point. You are both right and both wrong, it's a tie. Now let's agree to get rid of the crap.

People are mentioning the properties of contrails here... As they speak, today 1-2-2012 it is cold with an expected below freezing night time temps durring the next three or four days....... just a perspective for those reading this at a later date

I've been noticing that most of the planes rather suddenly stopped leaving visible chemtrails. Does that mean they started using invisible chemicals? Does that mean that the chemtrails are dropping off in frequency of application? I don't know. But I've seen several planes now that don't leave lasting contrails the past at least month maybe several months.

reply to post by Jouislin


I live by Huntsville, Al by the way.

Originally posted by Jouislin
I've been noticing that most of the planes rather suddenly stopped leaving visible chemtrails. Does that mean they started using invisible chemicals? Does that mean that the chemtrails are dropping off in frequency of application? I don't know. But I've seen several planes now that don't leave lasting contrails the past at least month maybe several months.

It may be hard to see, but I am showing both types of planes transiting the sky in my videos. One will leave a trail and the other will not.

With so many bowl games in Florida and vacationers returning back home, it's no wonder that the sky traffic is way up this weekend. Probably the land traffic as well. The weather conditions are excellent for displaying the condensation from all the air traffic this New Year.
-cwm

Originally posted by ProudBird
HAARP has no, zero, zilch effect on clouds, and especially none in the troposphere. Where all of our weather activity exists.

HAARP has a huge effect on the clouds, it is used to control the weather.

Take a look here and you'll soon get the idea www.colinandrews.net...

The main purpose of HAARP and chemtrails is to control the weather; weather can be used as a weapon. Be careful not to fall for the propaganda; there is lots as this weapon has to remain covert

i live in north florida and the chemtrails have been crazy the last couple days...today was bad because there wasnt a cloud in the sky. it was a beautiful day and then a whole bunch of chemtrails turned into hazy clouds...i wish we knew what they were doing...we prolly wont find out until one of the jet pilots retire or something...i was actually riding with my friends dad who is a old redneck stoner and i was like, " look at all the chemtrails in the sky!" and he was like " yea a buddy of mine tried telling me that the govt was spraying chemicals in the air...i told him he was crazy" i almost started to open my mouth but i realized its no use as he is a redneck that is set his ways and he wont listen to me. he also stated that the chemtrails have been dropping off which i dont agree with. but he said theres not as many now as there was 10 years ago...whos crazy?

Originally posted by onecraftydude
Here is the video from today:

www.youtube.com...

edit on 2-1-2012 by onecraftydude because: trying a different address to make the video show up

That's exactly how it looked down here today except it got real hazy.

What was also kinda strange today (here in south east Florida) was...the trails were broken up. They were not the typical elongated trails. Rather they zig-zagged a bit and/or were intermittently broken apart.

But they weren't vaporizing. They lingered and transformed (what started out to be) perfect BLUE skies----into a white hazy smokey cotton-candy looking sky all afternoon.

The planes were also flying very very high. I estimate around 35,000 - 40,000 ft above sea level.

This is weather warfare!!!!

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

West Palm Beach (southeast) Florida reporting in.
Skies are entirely covered with plane-vapors.

"plane-vapors"? You mean contrails.


Here, time to take the effort to go ahead and identify those jets. Commercial scheduled airliners, may even be one or two private airplanes as well:

flightaware.com...

Green airplane icons are ust passing by. WoW!! Look how many there are!!

High humidity/low temperature at cruise altitudes = lots and lots of condensation trails. Period.

The planes look to be flying and criss-crossing at extremely high altitudes. I'd guessimate around 30 or 40,000 feet.

Judging altitude with the naked eye (and nothing else) is not very accurate, but is better with knowledge and experience to know what you're looking at.

Or, use the tools (provided above).

..... it's rare to see two soaring at the same altitude at the same time in opposite directions.

NOT at "same altitude" when opposite directions....not unless separated by 10+ miles. But, can be only 1,000 feet different altitudes.

These are absolute purposefully placed deliberately dropped NON-contrails infiltrating my sky!!!

False.

Commercial airliners. Look, again, at the resource link above. You can identify them for yourself. Click on each icon, and then write down the identification.

This is a total violation no matter if these are chemtrails or heavy duty condensation trails (which, they're NOT).

"violation"? It's not, it's just science. When another front moves into your area, then the contrail production rates will change.

Might want to find resources to teach about meteorology.....

My health and the health of planet is far more important than vacationing VIPs (assuming these are commercial planes with passengers which, they're NOT).

Man. Speechless at that, simply no words to describe it. ^ ^ ^

I was wondering where you've been. Hey Weed!!!

I call it vapor trails because calling it 'condensation' trails is assuming it's water. And I won't do that anymore. Just as I try not to infer these trails as 'chemical' trails. To me they are some sort of vapor-trail.


As a matter of fact, I do and DID check the flight tracker.
www.flightradar24.com...
It failed. Just as your new identity has.

This looks I typical day in Indanapolis. I work @ the airport we watch the mornings start with a clear blue sky with a few jets then by noon its just a miserable hazy gray day from all the spraying! Thats the deal here in what they call " The Cross Roads of the Socialist Repubic of the America". Very few days are normal and it's quite noticable. I play golf alot and few days are like when I was much younger, clear blue with contrails here and there , but now a daze its very rare! Just gray cloudy haze most everyday. Boo

Originally posted by Aeonflux

Originally posted by ProudBird
HAARP has no, zero, zilch effect on clouds, and especially none in the troposphere. Where all of our weather activity exists.

HAARP has a huge effect on the clouds, it is used to control the weather.

And how does it do that pray tell, since it affects the ionosphere which is generally held to start at about 50km, whereas "weather" is all below 20km?

Take a look here and you'll soon get the idea www.colinandrews.net...

Circular radar anomalies are nothing new - and they are about radar - which is why there's a radar station at hte middle of each, and not a HAARP installation!!

[qiote]The main purpose of HAARP and chemtrails is to control the weather; weather can be used as a weapon. Be careful not to fall for the propaganda; there is lots as this weapon has to remain covert

lol - and yet every conspiracy nut in the world knows about it - that's a bit of a covert failure!!

The only propaganda here is unsubstantiated assertions with no evidence - scaremongering and pandering to paranoia.

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

i am just presenting visible proof of SOMETHING that does not belong in our sky made by the airplanes that transit it.

Contrails consist primarily of water in the form of ice crystals, and of course the exhaust from the air planes engines. Nothing sinister really.

/sigh...maybe its not sinister, but why did contrails only start behaving like that in the mid-90's? What changed, if they're just contrails? Was the fuel mixture changed, leading to a more volatile interaction with the water vapor? I find it hard to believe people don't remember when planes didn't do this - it wasn't all that long ago.

Regardless of intention, it gets really old watching beautiful blue-sky days go full-cloud when you witness it all coming from airplanes. I'd like it stopped, even if its good for our health.