chemtrails over Florida 01-01-2012

reply to post by tbonethedstroyer


Too bad for this claim:

.....you KNOW clouds didn't look like this until roughly ten years ago. You know it!

It just isn't true. Any of these look familiar?



Different types of airplanes, but similar principles.

Highly saturated air masses. Hot fossil fuel-burning engines. Lots of air enveloping the hot exhaust gases, blown back to surround the gases with a horizontal column of cooler air.

That describes the modern high bypass turbofan engine of today. AND, modern engines burn a lot more fuel per hour, producing even MORE water vapor.


The so-called "chemtrail" phenomenon era of modern times began sometime in the mid-to-late 1990s. (But, the paranoia was beginning even before that). By my count, that's more than ten years ago. Persistent contrails....contrails....are becoming more common, and maybe only *you* noticed ten years ago, but it's all due to the engines, and the newer jets being added to airline fleets, as they retire older jets.

Fuel efficiency increases account for the formation of more, and more persistent, contrails. Simple.

The barest amount of research will show this to be a fact. And real research will show that "chemtrails" are a hoax, and there are some names associated with how they began:

Will Thomas

Cliff Carnicorn

And, Art Bell. Yes, Art Bell (and Will Thomas) and his radio show are mostly to blame for spreading the "word" on "chemtrails" early on. Then the Internet came along, and their con job just got better and better....."their", but many, many more jumped on with this....either willfully ignorantly from just bing gullible (not their fault), or more charlatans to prey on the ones who just don't understand the science.

If you just go to a search engine on the Web, and type in Art Bell & Will Thomas, you will find the evidence of their "game"....they are very good at promoting themselves and their "pseudoscience" and claims.

And, might have an interesting stroll through this:

supercell.org...

["Chemtrail History" section, left side column).

It's the weather-controlling HAARP waves that form after the chemtrails have been sprayed which are the true smoking gun. Notice how the debunking team avoid discussing that part

reply to post by Aeonflux


I'm surprised anyone would fall for that video, and the obvious joke that it is:

It's the weather-controlling HAARP waves that form....

"Joke", that is, to those who are better informed than the YouTube up-loader appears to be.

HAARP has no, zero, zilch effect on clouds, and especially none in the troposphere. Where all of our weather activity exists.

HAARP is designed to affect the ionosphere, some 80 km above the surface.....far, far higher than the tropopause, and the lower stratosphere.


The cloud patterns seen there are simply the fact that the air is flowing in an up-and-down pattern, and the clouds indicate this.

Think of water flowing over stones in a riverbed, for example. You can see the water, but can't see the air. So, when clouds are present, it is the only clue we have (visually, without measuring equipment and hardware) to get a sense for air flow patterns.

Also, that sort of cloud activity has been called, in English, a "Mackerel Sky" for many, many centuries.

As anyone who boats, and knows how to "read" the clouds.

Weather online.

West Palm Beach (southeast) Florida reporting in.
Skies are entirely covered with plane-vapors.

What looks to be a clear day has turned totally hazy.

The planes look to be flying and criss-crossing at extremely high altitudes. I'd guessimate around 30 or 40,000 feet.

There are a handful out all at once (about 6 planes) when ordinarily it's rare to see two soaring at the same altitude at the same time in opposite directions.

These are absolute purposefully placed deliberately dropped NON-contrails infiltrating my sky!!!
They're spreading out, forming artificial elongated cloud coverage. One has been in sight for over an hour now.

This is a total violation no matter if these are chemtrails or heavy duty condensation trails (which, they're NOT).

My health and the health of planet is far more important than vacationing VIPs (assuming these are commercial planes with passengers which, they're NOT).


I know this is a very frustrating feat to address but the least we can all do is recognize what's going on. We don't have to have the answers but to be blind to it only adds insult to injury.

reply to post by Human_Alien

West Palm Beach (southeast) Florida reporting in.
Skies are entirely covered with plane-vapors.

"plane-vapors"? You mean contrails.


Here, time to take the effort to go ahead and identify those jets. Commercial scheduled airliners, may even be one or two private airplanes as well:

flightaware.com...

Green airplane icons are ust passing by. WoW!! Look how many there are!!

High humidity/low temperature at cruise altitudes = lots and lots of condensation trails. Period.

The planes look to be flying and criss-crossing at extremely high altitudes. I'd guessimate around 30 or 40,000 feet.

Judging altitude with the naked eye (and nothing else) is not very accurate, but is better with knowledge and experience to know what you're looking at.

Or, use the tools (provided above).

..... it's rare to see two soaring at the same altitude at the same time in opposite directions.

NOT at "same altitude" when opposite directions....not unless separated by 10+ miles. But, can be only 1,000 feet different altitudes.

These are absolute purposefully placed deliberately dropped NON-contrails infiltrating my sky!!!

False.

Commercial airliners. Look, again, at the resource link above. You can identify them for yourself. Click on each icon, and then write down the identification.

This is a total violation no matter if these are chemtrails or heavy duty condensation trails (which, they're NOT).

"violation"? It's not, it's just science. When another front moves into your area, then the contrail production rates will change.

Might want to find resources to teach about meteorology.....

My health and the health of planet is far more important than vacationing VIPs (assuming these are commercial planes with passengers which, they're NOT).

Man. Speechless at that, simply no words to describe it. ^ ^ ^

reply to post by Human_Alien

We don't have to have the answers but to be blind to it only adds insult to injury.

Actually you do need to have the answers, and here is why. A person that debunks chemtrails asks for proof and you can't give them an answer then there is no proof that you can show that they exist. Look up is not a scientific answer and until someone can show undisputed evidence they exist, well you know what comes next or should I say it? I'll just say it.... They do not exist.

reply to post by ProudBird


I don't care WHY they are there. I want it mandated to get rid of them. I believe solar power could become cheap enough for everyone to have a system at their residence without too much outlay of money. These cheap systems require sunlight to perform at their potential. The skies are being covered by jet exhaust whether water vapor or fuel remnants. This needs to stop.

I don't care who said what or what the actual explanation is for the persistent trails left by airplanes. I don't care.

They need to go away!

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

We don't have to have the answers but to be blind to it only adds insult to injury.

Actually you do need to have the answers, and here is why. A person that debunks chemtrails asks for proof and you can't give them an answer then there is no proof that you can show that they exist. Look up is not a scientific answer and until someone can show undisputed evidence they exist, well you know what comes next or should I say it? I'll just say it.... They do not exist.

Look up!

Call me stupid, but I actually filmed them in the sky and posted the evidence here. You may not have watched it. I don't know what is in them or what conditions cause them, but I know their effect on solar panels and plants and the impact has consequences. Call them sky turds for all I care, but don't deny they exist.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

We don't have to have the answers but to be blind to it only adds insult to injury.

Actually you do need to have the answers, and here is why. A person that debunks chemtrails asks for proof and you can't give them an answer then there is no proof that you can show that they exist. Look up is not a scientific answer and until someone can show undisputed evidence they exist, well you know what comes next or should I say it? I'll just say it.... They do not exist.

I can look at a bottle of rat poison and know it's harmful to digest. I don't have to know the ingredients.
I am not taking part of a debate.
I am making a reasonable and lucid observation.
I leave the fancy footwork of proof (and its jargon) to the professionals in which, I'm not.


It looks like it's about to snow here is sunny southeast Florida.

Originally posted by waynos

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by waynos

 

So cirrus clouds just linger in the sky right? They also block uv rays. Without the airplane traffic there would be no cirrus clouds over Florida every day. I want them gone.

Cirrus clouds can linger, but not always, it entirely depends on the temperature and relative humidity. They have been doing this for millions of years and the ones added by air travel are a tiny fraction of those natural ones. Would you complain about the waves caused by wakes of passing ships adding to the natural waves in the ocean? I'm guessing not.

I never said they were pinpointing a spot to chemtrail. They chemtrail the entire sky. All the chemtrails appear to be coming from the same type of plane as well. Half of the planes in the sky leave heavy trails and half leave none.

But I was actually addressing a specific post by someone else. The effect you are talking about is only one of several explanations that believers have put forward. Which type of plane are you referring to? I myself have posted many different photos of contrails on this very forum across a few threads, with zoomed shots of the actual and identifiable aircraft to go with it. What is it that makes you think they are chemtrails, rather than contrails?

Here's an example on this page of he research thread; www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 2-1-2012 by waynos because: Added link

If you watch the video you cannot say they are a tiny fraction of natural ones. That statement is entirely false if you look at the evidence in the video.

ALL of the clouds formed in the sky were from airplanes!

That is 100% for you technical people.

I am not a "Believer" or "Chemmie" or "Debunker". I don't have an agenda other than to clean up the sky of airplane exhaust.

I don't care why it is there.

I want it gone.

reply to post by onecraftydude


I am not a "chemtrail" person.(LOL if there is such a thing) I usually dont pay any attention to these threads however yesterday hubby and I went down to the beach to take a walk because it was unusually warm for a new years day . There was of course lots of open air space down at the beach. I observed four planes at once all going in different directions all leaving these wide contrails behind them. There were several new and many more older contrail remnants in the sky. I laughed to myself because I've read about the chemtrail thing on here and even pointed it out to my husband telling him not to breath to deeply because he was being poisoned. We were down there about an hour and the planes were up there going back and forth the whole time.

Originally posted by CharonIncarnate
reply to post by onecraftydude

 

Last week or so in idaho we have had non stop cloudy skys. Hadnt seen stars for a week plus. Then a huge storm came in. Very odd looking storm. One hour later the skies were clear. Very next day constant chem trails. And we arent even that busy air traffic wise. I can see them out there right now. Trying to get the sky back to grey. Its a known fact that people are more likely depressed or gloomy when its dark. Look at alaska when they dont see the sun most of the time. Its depressing. The sun gives us energy. I can see why TPTB want us cut off from it.

Please tell me why our govt would want us to be depressed? Why would they strive so hard to obtain our unhappiness. I see it over and over. TPTB TPTB, And their only goal it seems is to keep the masses depressed. WHY? What's the point of all this. Why would any govt want sad depressed people. Why would they go out of their way to make sure the people are depressed? It does not make sense and it does not make sense because its not true. Its nonsense.

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

I think anyone who steps out of the line is ridiculed. I don't mind people thinking I am strange or eccentric because I can see through BS. To me that only shows my superior intellect and their collective stupidity.

I believe people are so scared of the truth that they will latch on to whatever alternative is presented to them so they can be comfortable with their lives. I was never one to accept things without investigating on my own first. I am not a follower and when I see something as obvious as this it is an affront to my freedom to breathe clean air. It is an obvious snub to all the taxpayers footing the bill for this crazy experiment.

Enough wondering. Enough he said she said. Enough BS. It's there, let's get rid of it!

Bows to your superior intellect......
yeah sure I do.

Originally posted by karen61057

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

I think anyone who steps out of the line is ridiculed. I don't mind people thinking I am strange or eccentric because I can see through BS. To me that only shows my superior intellect and their collective stupidity.

I believe people are so scared of the truth that they will latch on to whatever alternative is presented to them so they can be comfortable with their lives. I was never one to accept things without investigating on my own first. I am not a follower and when I see something as obvious as this it is an affront to my freedom to breathe clean air. It is an obvious snub to all the taxpayers footing the bill for this crazy experiment.

Enough wondering. Enough he said she said. Enough BS. It's there, let's get rid of it!

Bows to your superior intellect......
yeah sure I do.

lol.

reply to post by onecraftydude

Look up! Call me stupid, but I actually filmed them in the sky and posted the evidence here. You may not have watched it. I don't know what is in them or what conditions cause them, but I know their effect on solar panels and plants and the impact has consequences. Call them sky turds for all I care, but don't deny they exist.

Hey stupid!Only kidding, couldn't help myself...

I watched your video of contrails it was very nice. You say it yourself that you don't know what is in them or what condition causes them, correct? Have you thought to do any research on this subject before you posted this. Have you ever thought about how high these planes are flying when you see these contrails? Do you really think that whatever someone is spraying something at that height it will affect you on the ground?

Why not check out this thread and learn about the conditions that cause these trails you see...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe U2U the author of that thread and talk with him he can help you out. This is also someone who works in the field of meteorology. It's a good place to start.

Or you need to go and check out this site for some good info that will help you in learning the truth.

contrailscience.com...

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


My intent here was not to debate the reasons for these trails. I only want to see them gone.

I am uploading another one from today to show that weather conditions don't appear to influence them other than make them thinner.

The debate should be how to get rid of them. That requires that we know what makes them and change the parameters so they do not exist at all.

reply to post by Human_Alien

I am not taking part of a debate.

I wasn't looking for a debate I was just stating the obvious and trying to answer something you had said. Where the rat poison comes to play in this scenario I have no clue,but whatever? Now let us look at what you said....

I can look at a bottle of rat poison and know it's harmful to digest. I don't have to know the ingredients.

Exactly, because somewhere on the package it has a skull and crossbones, plus it says poison.

Now how can you tell the difference that a contrail is a chemtrail at 35,000 ft above you? Do you have bionic eye like the Six Million Dollar Man? Any super power that others do not know about that let's you know the chemical composition just by looking at it,and even at 35,000 ft? Damn wish I could do that, sounds like a fun power to have.

reply to post by onecraftydude

I want it mandated to get rid of them.

Why is it a "I want" or "My desire"??

"Me"...."I", over and over?

This is like "demanding" that the weather never change, or that the Earth stop rotating, just so *you* can have constant sunlight for *your* personal "needs"!

I am being intentionally silly and pedantic of course.


So, what, precisely, are the adverse effects on solar panels' performance merely due to some contrails?? (In percentages and actual, verifiable numbers). [***] You do realize that even without any airliners flying, cirrus clouds will form too, right?

[***] I decided to do a Google search for the answers....just referring to clouds......Here:

www.solarhome.org...

How well do solar panels work in cloudy conditions?

A cloudy day provides sufficient diffuse light by which the panel will produce electricity. Optimum electrical production occurs with bright and sunny weather conditions. Under a light overcast, the modules might produce about half as much as under full sun, ranging down to as little as five to ten percent under a dark overcast day. In remote, off-grid applications, a PV system is connected to a battery storage system as a backup power source. In grid-connected applications, the PV system works in parallel with the utility power grid.

I see the term "light overcast" there to mean the types of clouds such as low stratus layers (usually near the shores). Where there is much diffuse light, easy enough to see (no headlights needed on your car, at Noon, say). A "dark overcast" would be a heavier layer of clouds, usually to include cumulus and rainclouds. When, even at Noon, you are obliged to turn on your car headlights, for better visibility (others can see you better, is why it's a good idea then).

You also (in terms of solar energy" might as well "complain" about the seasons, too.....and shorter periods of daylight hours in winter time!!

How well do solar panels work in the winter?

Solar panels work on light not heat. With shorter daylight hours in winter, solar panels produce proportionately less power....

Of course, as mentioned above, with the proper battery storage technologies, and/or supplements from a utility power grid (as mentioned above) then the occasional days of airplane contrails should have little impact --- when you consider the very natural variations in weather that occur anyways.


Another informative website:

How Do Clouds Affect Solar Panels?


But as to the "demand" and "wanting" contrails "gotten rid of"? There is simply no cost-effective method that is acceptable from economic and convenience standpoints. Airlines are a business. They hang on a narrow edge of profit/loss as it is.

Air quality concerns are already looming.....the actual compounds and molecules in the exhaust gases, from burning petroleum fuels. (Of course, there is FAR more pollution from all the hundreds of millions of personal and commercial ground vehicles than produced by all of the jets on Earth).

Those gases are worse.....Carbon Monoxide, Carbon Dioxide, Nitrous acid, etc.....than a bunch of water vapor that occasionally freezes to form cirrus clouds......but, when compared to autos and trucks and motor scooters and even gas-powered lawnmowers?? Not to mention the factories and industrial sources of air pollution too??

We use fossil fuels, and until there is a cheaper and technologically feasible alternative fuel for our transportation devices, this will remain the case.

I almost started a chemtrail thread today as well. This morning here in denver there were some very interesting trails. A typical trail goes in one direction with other trails crossing over sort of like a chess board. This morning there were big circular trails all over the place. Then I noticed 2 aircraft were making these trails. There were times when these 2 craft couldn't have been more than a couple hundred meters from one another. They would bank as a pair one would make a big circle while the other would trace the inside of the circle all over central denver. From the amount of trails it looks like it had been going on for a while. At about 7:45 a.m. they both flew north and haven't seen them since...

Originally posted by onecraftydude
reply to post by tsurfer2000h

 

My intent here was not to debate the reasons for these trails. I only want to see them gone.

So do scientists and the military. Not to say amateur astronomers and many others.

ie:

Telescopes 'worthless' by 2050

Longer airline flights proposed to combat global warming

Are fuel additives a viable contrail mitigation option

Aircraft contrails stoke warming, cloud formation

(note: these refer to persisting contrails - ie what others call "chemtrails" - and not short lived contrails)

Trouble is, try as we might, people insist on flying .......

And at present the only ways of preventing aircraft from producing "chemtrails" is to fly below (or above) the level at which they form. Though we don't always know they are going to form until they do. The military are working on this but most "chemtrails" come from commercial airliners and at present, the alternatives - of flying lower al the time - mean longer flights, more fuel being used, more CO2 emissions and higher costs.

For now we're stuck with "chemtrails" whether we like them or not. But if you don't like them, do like me and DON'T EVER FLY. Encourage your family and friends to do likewise. You could also help by never buying imported produce that may have arrived in aircraft. And if you post abroad, always use surface mail, even if it takes 3 months to be delivered.