The Christmas Hoax: Jesus is NOT the "Reason for the Season"

Originally posted by caladonea

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by dilly1

 

I presented another point of view.....you dispute it...I am ok with that.

By the way....I have read your other posts in this thread...and I am not impressed.

edit on 23-12-2011 by caladonea because: add more

Off course your not

You are very humorous! Thank you for giving me a good laugh! Take care.

Oh so in the past day you learnt to turn the other cheek...well done you..
Weak attempt at sarcasm...Please try harder.

BTW merry Christmas to you and everyone here.
I shall be busy for a few days so feel free to talk utter bollocks in mine and others absence .

See you in January. OXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO

Originally posted by Suspiria

Originally posted by caladonea

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by dilly1

 

I presented another point of view.....you dispute it...I am ok with that.

By the way....I have read your other posts in this thread...and I am not impressed.

edit on 23-12-2011 by caladonea because: add more

Off course your not

You are very humorous! Thank you for giving me a good laugh! Take care.

Oh so in the past day you learnt to turn the other cheek...well done you..
Weak attempt at sarcasm...Please try harder.

BTW merry Christmas to you and everyone here.
I shall be busy for a few days so feel free to talk utter bollocks in mine and others absence .

See you in January. OXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO

edit on 23-12-2011 by Suspiria because: (no reason given)

Now now,,, no need to get jealous. You know I'm a ladies man. Anyways she better looking than you. Ooops

reply to post by dilly1

Where do I begin? There were two Jesus..Jesus Barabbas was Jacov(Jacob) , and the other Jesus was Yeshua. There was really no Christus. That term came after. How do you know these Forged scriptures are holy? Just because the bible is the #1 seller doesn't make it a TRUE STORY. And do please include: the extreme possibility of infested rampant forgery thru-out the NewTest. When and How was the bible proven time after time. I'm dying to know. Name one prophecy that the bible has predicted? How do you know luke is a meticulous writer? Has he written other sonnets for another publisher? How do you know he was an eyewitness to any event? Are guys are down like that? The We or They thing means what when referring to luke being the actual author? So let me get this strait,,because the bible depicts Time and Place ,, then it must be Authentic??? Sure buddy Time

How the heck is someone supposed to respond to a reply when the only reasoned argument it contains is "how do you know bla bla bla?"

When you look at Ancient texts - the first thing you assess is Time and Place in the writings to assess historical accuracy. Why would Luke, or any of the Bible writers for that matter, go to so much trouble if writing a work of fiction? Why would he seperate events HE actually witnessed to those he simply recounted from others. If it was all made up there would be no point. Your argument is built on extremely flimsy foundations.

As for Biblical prophecies coming true - These are many. eg the destruction of Ninevah. The rise of Greece and how eventually the world empire would be divided into four. All came true to the dotting of the i and the crossing of the T.

How about when Jesus warned his disciples about the coming destruction of Jerusalem after his death..... (Luke 21:20-21) . . .“Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her;

In 66 C.E. a Jewish revolt brought Roman forces under Cestius Gallus to the city, surrounding it and making a thrust right up to the temple walls. Suddenly Cestius Gallus withdrew for no apparent reason. This allowed Christians to put into action Jesus’ instructions. Eusebius, in his Ecclesiastical History (III, V, 3), states that the Christians fled from Jerusalem and the whole land of Judea to a city of Perea that was called Pella.

Jospephus also attests to the terrible seige and destruction of Jerusalem when the Roman armies returned in 70CE and did indeed desolate it. Wise Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic words escaped.

Also of note is that Jesus had warned how the temple buildings in Jerusalem would be utterly destroyed. (Mark 13:2) . . .Do you behold these great buildings? By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”

Did Jesus words come true?.. As Josephus attests, indeed nothing remained of the temple walls when the Roman's completed their conquest. As the stone temple walls were inlaid with gold, the soldiers had individually chipped away at each stone to remove it's precious contents. Literally no "stone upon a stone" remained, just as Jesus had foretold. The only remaining vestige of the entire temple complex in Jerusalem is one partial outer wall - the so called "Wailing Wall", where Jews visit and pray at today.

Originally posted by JB1234
reply to post by dilly1

 

Where do I begin? There were two Jesus..Jesus Barabbas was Jacov(Jacob) , and the other Jesus was Yeshua. There was really no Christus. That term came after. How do you know these Forged scriptures are holy? Just because the bible is the #1 seller doesn't make it a TRUE STORY. And do please include: the extreme possibility of infested rampant forgery thru-out the NewTest. When and How was the bible proven time after time. I'm dying to know. Name one prophecy that the bible has predicted? How do you know luke is a meticulous writer? Has he written other sonnets for another publisher? How do you know he was an eyewitness to any event? Are guys are down like that? The We or They thing means what when referring to luke being the actual author? So let me get this strait,,because the bible depicts Time and Place ,, then it must be Authentic??? Sure buddy Time

How the heck is someone supposed to respond to a reply when the only reasoned argument it contains is "how do you know bla bla bla?"

When you look at Ancient texts - the first thing you assess is Time and Place in the writings to assess historical accuracy. Why would Luke, or any of the Bible writers for that matter, go to so much trouble if writing a work of fiction? Why would he seperate events HE actually witnessed to those he simply recounted from others. If it was all made up there would be no point. Your argument is built on extremely flimsy foundations.

As for Biblical prophecies coming true - These are many. eg the destruction of Ninevah. The rise of Greece and how eventually the world empire would be divided into four. All came true to the dotting of the i and the crossing of the T.

How about when Jesus warned his disciples about the coming destruction of Jerusalem after his death..... (Luke 21:20-21) . . .“Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her;

In 66 C.E. a Jewish revolt brought Roman forces under Cestius Gallus to the city, surrounding it and making a thrust right up to the temple walls. Suddenly Cestius Gallus withdrew for no apparent reason. This allowed Christians to put into action Jesus’ instructions. Eusebius, in his Ecclesiastical History (III, V, 3), states that the Christians fled from Jerusalem and the whole land of Judea to a city of Perea that was called Pella.

Jospephus also attests to the terrible seige and destruction of Jerusalem when the Roman armies returned in 70CE and did indeed desolate it. Wise Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic words escaped.

Also of note is that Jesus had warned how the temple buildings in Jerusalem would be utterly destroyed. (Mark 13:2) . . .Do you behold these great buildings? By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”

Did Jesus words come true?.. As Josephus attests, indeed nothing remained of the temple walls when the Roman's completed their conquest. As the stone temple walls were inlaid with gold, the soldiers had individually chipped away at each stone to remove it's precious contents. Literally no "stone upon a stone" remained, just as Jesus had foretold. The only remaining vestige of the entire temple complex in Jerusalem is one partial outer wall - the so called "Wailing Wall", where Jews visit and pray at today.

edit on 24-12-2011 by JB1234 because: Added for context

I ask so many questions to prove to you that your sole bases in having faith , is just that = blind faith. You have no proof of anything happening. You chose to believe what you read as literal. You are a classic Hellenistic Christian.

Again, where do I begin

You have no proof Luke wrote anything. Your assuming


Prophecies are not made to predict the future. Its not a pure prediction..its all(bible) very vague jargon. They are made to warn the reader. Just as a scary movie or a powerful documentary would warn the viewer . How a bunch of goat herders or carpenters or fishermen become experts in the practice of "writing" is a complete joke.

Ninevah was not destroyed. The Ninevites repented.

Greece? What Greece? The rise of Greece happened way before the creation of both the Old and New testament. Or did you mean the movie "Grease"?

Please post the exact line(s) where the bible talks about the rise of greece and world empires divided in four and then tell how that relates to the 20th and 21st century.

Luke21:20-21 was written after jesus death and the destruction of jerusalem. Its called reporting ,,happens everyday. No prediction here...Your very naive

Eusebius, like ma

Eusebius, like many historians from antiquity fell to the barbaric world of forgery. Care to prove his accounts were really his? You can't . Again very naive

Josephus???? You clearly do not read any of my previous post. Dude!, Josephus didn't write jack. If you are reading something that has survived for so long, there is a reason for that. He didn't write any of it. Do you know how many burnings and forgerys were happening after Constantine? Just because a website says this scripture was written in 60ad doesn't mean 60ad. Again super naive


Again the "jesus accounts" were after the event. Its called reporting after the fact, after the event happened. How freakin convenient.

Noooo,,jesus words didn't come true. Why would I believe that. There are so many gaping holes in your post , its ridiculous. You want to believe he said them.

I hope one day , try, Please try to understand history. How the people lived. How hard it was . There wasn't only rampant physical rape in antiquity, but even ones word and honor were constantly being raped. Antiquity was hell for a philosopher and all historians. Everything you read about the past, Everything, is fabricated some how , some way. Its never completely true , but its mostly false.

reply to post by dilly1



The City of Ninevah in the time of Jonah indeed did repent....... it was one of the most important ancient Cities which Jonah attests to taking 3 days to walk about. God spared Ninevah.at that time as you quite rightly state.....

However further in time....The book of Nahum opens with the words......(Nahum 1:1) 1 The pronouncement against Nin′e‧veh: The book of the vision of Na′hum the El′kosh‧ite:

The prophecies against this mighty City were quite specific...

(Zephaniah 2:13-15) . . .And he will stretch out his hand toward the north, and he will destroy As‧syr′i‧a. And he will make Nin′e‧veh a desolate waste, a waterless region like the wilderness. 14 And in the midst of her, droves will certainly lie stretched out, all the wild animals of a nation. Both pelican and porcupine will spend the night right among her pillar capitals. A voice will keep singing in the window. There will be devastation at the threshold; for he will certainly lay bare the very wainscoting. 15 This is the exultant city that was sitting in security, that was saying in her heart, ‘I am, and there is nobody else.’ O how she has become an object of astonishment, a place for the wild animals to lie stretched out! Everyone passing along by her will whistle; he will wag his hand.”

(Nahum 2:8-9, 13) . . .And Nin′e‧veh, from the days [that] she [has been], was like a pool of waters; but they are fleeing. “Stand still, YOU men! Stand still!” But there is no one turning back. 9 Plunder silver, YOU men; plunder gold; as there is no limit to the [things in] arrangement. There is a heavy amount of all sorts of desirable articles............ . .and I will burn up her war chariot in the smoke. And a sword will devour your own maned young lions. And I will cut off from the earth your prey, and no more will the voice of your messengers be heard.”

Some years after the violent reign of Sennacherib King of Assyria, whose cruel acts and conquests adorn the walls of the Assyrian room in the British Museum in London to this day - sometime after he was murdered in the house of his God Nisroch.....

These and other prophecies were indeed fulfilled when the combined forces of Nabopolassar the king of Babylon and of Cyaxares the Mede besieged and captured Nineveh. The city was evidently subjected to burning, for many Assyrian reliefs show damage or stain from fire and accompanying smoke. With reference to Nineveh, a Babylonian chronicle reports: “They carried off the vast booty of the city and the temple (and) [turned] the city into a ruin heap.” (Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles, by A. Grayson, 1975, p. 94; PICTURE, Vol. 1, p. 958) To this day Nineveh is a desolate waste, and in the spring, flocks graze near or atop the mound of Kuyunjik.

reply to post by dilly1

Again the "jesus accounts" were after the event. Its called reporting after the fact, after the event happened. How freakin convenient. Noooo,,jesus words didn't come true. Why would I believe that. There are so many gaping holes in your post , its ridiculous. You want to believe he said them.

When critics get to the stage where they are promoting the ridiculous lies that Matthew the disciple of Jesus didn't write his version of what he actually witnessed in his own lifetime - including writing down the prophecy he himself was given by Jesus regarding the destruction of Jerusalem...it really is not worth debating with such illiogical and ill thought out arguments.

As usual everyone, everything and anything, is dismissed, which backs up the Bible.

Even if I quote the exact prophetic words from the Bible that talk about the Grecian empire being divided into four after the premature death of Alexander the Great, you will simply dismiss that as a nonsense.

reply to post by dilly1

This is the problem with Hellenistic Christians. They take every little detailed word literally and compare it to there holy book(small library). Its the same thing Seed.

Actually, in order to see the full picture, you have to look at all sides and their claims. If you find that as a problem, then you are simply accepting things blindly. And no it´s not the same thing dilly.

For love of your christ ,just accept it.

I am not going to accept anything concerning the "Copycat" theory. I prefer to do my own research and so far the "copycat" theory is plain wrong.

You don't lose anything. I'm sure your faith will still be intact.

Thank you, for your concern on my faith dilly.

What are you afraid of?

Well to be honest, i have some fear concerning certain animals.

Peace

Originally posted by JB1234
reply to post by dilly1

 

Again the "jesus accounts" were after the event. Its called reporting after the fact, after the event happened. How freakin convenient. Noooo,,jesus words didn't come true. Why would I believe that. There are so many gaping holes in your post , its ridiculous. You want to believe he said them.

When critics get to the stage where they are promoting the ridiculous lies that Matthew the disciple of Jesus didn't write his version of what he actually witnessed in his own lifetime - including writing down the prophecy he himself was given by Jesus regarding the destruction of Jerusalem...it really is not worth debating with such illiogical and ill thought out arguments.

As usual everyone, everything and anything, is dismissed, which backs up the Bible.

Even if I quote the exact prophetic words from the Bible that talk about the Grecian empire being divided into four after the premature death of Alexander the Great, you will simply dismiss that as a nonsense.

edit on 25-12-2011 by JB1234 because: Added for context

You are way behind the 8ball.

By 400bc greek historians became indifferent with the story of Nineveh... 400bc!!!!!

How the freck did jesus predict anything that came before him?

What is wrong with you. All you do is copy and paste nonsense and not once do you desire to use the logic you were born with.


Now ,,,,,Do you want to learn about Jerusalem?

Jerusalem has been screwed 118 times. That's freakin a lot. Beginning in 1350bc , twice by Nebuchanezzer and again by Titus,, then the Mongols in 1260ad ,, then again the Romans by Hadrian,, then it was captured 40 times and besieged at least 23 times. Even today there is a struggle for the pointless city.

So , I'll ask you the logical question: why would anyone,let alone poor jesus, be credited for destruction of a city like Jerusalem if by his time it already had a massive track record of being sacked? AND,,,Knowing that the traffic of people from east to west was huge filtering thru the "peaceful city".

I don't believe jesus made any predictions. But if he did it was and obvious one and I am sure every philistine new this constant besieged would continue forever. Which it is.

In conclusion this was not a prediction AT ALL.


Again you chose to believe Mathew and Jesus actually wrote or said or witnessed anything. You can't prove it. Its just faith. And because of that you are starting to give up debating with me. Happens all the time. People of faith can't defend faith,, they will quit way before .


For the love of your GOD, try using your god given logic! Jesus came after the Grecian empire and Alexander!!!! I'll dumb it down for you! If jesus came after the Greek empires and Alexander then Jesus cannot prophesize about it. Its like prophesizing about the Gulf War.

I'm so sorry,, but you are nothing but hopeless nonsense.

Jesus was the reason for my season today. I didn't go to church, but I woke up and learned about the creation of the world. Then I went outside and I celebrated - I danced to the trees, birds, and all nature.

I don't think this method of celebrating Jesus' life was wrong. But I can say that from what I learned today, even if someone angers me, it is more important to trick them into thinking they don't. The details on how to interact with a spirit are very fine. Only the most pure of positive emotion can be transferred to any human being under any circumstance. The notion of anything negative stemming from human interaction is out the door. Given the opportunity I can show them in a positive light that love is the answer to all.

Hello world, I don't fit in with you, but we are one and the same.

Originally posted by Seed76
reply to post by dilly1

 

This is the problem with Hellenistic Christians. They take every little detailed word literally and compare it to there holy book(small library). Its the same thing Seed.

Actually, in order to see the full picture, you have to look at all sides and their claims. If you find that as a problem, then you are simply accepting things blindly. And no it´s not the same thing dilly.

For love of your christ ,just accept it.

I am not going to accept anything concerning the "Copycat" theory. I prefer to do my own research and so far the "copycat" theory is plain wrong.

You don't lose anything. I'm sure your faith will still be intact.

Thank you, for your concern on my faith dilly.

What are you afraid of?

Well to be honest, i have some fear concerning certain animals.

Peace

To see the full picture YOU decide to acquire only the victorious POV. I ,,rather have the first ,second and third option(I want them all), not just one side. I want to know the POV of the unsuccessful. You choose to jump on the wagon without knowing the full picture. . I have a 360 view. And you? One degree. Who's blind?

I'm far from blind


And your thesis based on your research is?

What's a copy cat theory?

Animals?

Originally posted by greyer
Jesus was the reason for my season today. I didn't go to church, but I woke up and learned about the creation of the world. Then I went outside and I celebrated - I danced to the trees, birds, and all nature.

I don't think this method of celebrating Jesus' life was wrong. But I can say that from what I learned today, even if someone angers me, it is more important to trick them into thinking they don't. The details on how to interact with a spirit are very fine. Only the most pure of positive emotion can be transferred to any human being under any circumstance. The notion of anything negative stemming from human interaction is out the door. Given the opportunity I can show them in a positive light that love is the answer to all.

Hello world, I don't fit in with you, but we are one and the same.

To Trick someone on a forum is a bit difficult. Especially when you tell them your angered from the start.


Hello greyer

Hey, all...
hope your day was filled with whatever needed to make you feel connected to this planet, and every other being dwelling upon it. I spent it with my family, and it was an exceptionally pleasant gathering. Over the years, there has been strife, difficulty in understanding one another, and now, at last the participants have come to a place where we can laugh together, enjoy one another's perspectives, collectively miss those who are by death or circumstances absent, and are becoming more closely acquainted.

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. Don't want any of you to think that I bailed....it's been a busy few days...but I have read each post, and considered each person's thoughts with attention and respectful reflection.

As the day winds to an end, I want to thank my fellow ATS members for allowing me into their contemplative lives, for their disclosures and openness and acceptance of my presence here.

Peace, to all on earth. We are all connected...we are all "climbing the same mountain". And I value this new venue I've discovered as both an outlet and an inlet for interaction with my fellow humans here.

Brightest blessings,
Wildtimes

reply to post by dilly1

To see the full picture YOU decide to acquire only the victorious POV.

That´s your personal opinion and i respect that, but as i said on my previous post : Actually, in order to see the full picture, you have to look at all sides and their claims. If you find that as a problem, then you are simply accepting things blindly.
There is no "Victorious" or "Non-Victorious" point of view as you claim. It´s the evidence that counts. And so far the "Copycat" theory is plain wrong.

I ,,rather have the first ,second and third option(I want them all), not just one side. I want to know the POV of the unsuccessful. You choose to jump on the wagon without knowing the full picture. . I have a 360 view. And you? One degree. Who's blind?

By reading some of your replies in the thread here you said:

"I guess mommy forgot to tell you about the fake blood."

"-All you have is an idea(faith), that is solely based on the influence of others around you . Which is the only single thing that holds you to your idea of God."

If you really had a 360 view, then you would have presented some evidence to back up your claims instead of resorting to personal attacks.

I'm far from blind

If you say so...

What's a copy cat theory?

In a nutshell the "copycat" theory is the claim that : “The story of Jesus is merely a copy cat myth based on many ancient pagan religious cults, like the cult of Mithras, Horus, etc. It is doubtful that Jesus even existed!”

Animals?

Yes, animals. You know things like Tigers, Lions etc.

Peace

Originally posted by dilly1
Hello greyer

Hey,

I meant in real life, and I didn't mean 'trick' literally. I just meant they cannot know you are frustrated by any means, it can be any rage of negative emotions, but they must not know.

Originally posted by Seed76
reply to post by dilly1

 

To see the full picture YOU decide to acquire only the victorious POV.

That´s your personal opinion and i respect that, but as i said on my previous post : Actually, in order to see the full picture, you have to look at all sides and their claims. If you find that as a problem, then you are simply accepting things blindly.
There is no "Victorious" or "Non-Victorious" point of view as you claim. It´s the evidence that counts. And so far the "Copycat" theory is plain wrong.

I ,,rather have the first ,second and third option(I want them all), not just one side. I want to know the POV of the unsuccessful. You choose to jump on the wagon without knowing the full picture. . I have a 360 view. And you? One degree. Who's blind?

By reading some of your replies in the thread here you said:

"I guess mommy forgot to tell you about the fake blood."

"-All you have is an idea(faith), that is solely based on the influence of others around you . Which is the only single thing that holds you to your idea of God."

If you really had a 360 view, then you would have presented some evidence to back up your claims instead of resorting to personal attacks.

I'm far from blind

If you say so...

What's a copy cat theory?

In a nutshell the "copycat" theory is the claim that : “The story of Jesus is merely a copy cat myth based on many ancient pagan religious cults, like the cult of Mithras, Horus, etc. It is doubtful that Jesus even existed!”

Animals?

Yes, animals. You know things like Tigers, Lions etc.

Peace

God you suck at debating. There are so many holes in your post.


You make no sense. First you say ,like I,, that to get the true history you need all sides of the story. But then ,,you say there is no such thing of Victorious vs Non-victorious only evidence...?? What??


You do know the existing evidence (that is so easily available,,most of it) is mostly from the powers that be. Not the entity or person who lost the struggle(the non-victorious). Obviously you have no knowledge of the capabilities of humans when given the position of supreme power. Do you know what they usually do? They suppress,fabricate and exterminate anything that counters there agenda.

WHICH in retrospect its the logical thing to do if "the victor". Its morally and ethically wrong,but that's the norm in human history. That's if you care to truly learn human history.


I did provide a source,read my previous posts. But my sources are books not internet sites. That's probably why it didn't interest you.


I'm glad you admit your blind.

Thanks for the definition of copycat theory. But I could care less (about) if paganism has or not influenced Constantine's jesus. Its all faith. Pointless faith. So who cares if Dionysus or the others fused together with Christianism. My point is true history has been suppressed,burned and raped by the victor. So you nor no one has a clue what really happened.


Yes I know animals,,lol,,,(tigers and lions),,,but what does that have anything to do with this topic.? Are you a PETA agent?lol

reply to post by JB1234


The Book of Daniel predicted the rise of Israel as a state again

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by JB1234

 

The Book of Daniel predicted the rise of Israel as a state again

Wow,,,,,A jewish scripture predicted the uprising a jewish state... Lol... How freakin convenient. How does it feel to be under the hebrew trance?

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by JB1234

 

The Book of Daniel predicted the rise of Israel as a state again

Wow,,,,,A jewish scripture predicted the uprising a jewish state... Lol... How freakin convenient. How does it feel to be under the hebrew trance?

peace-of-mind.net...

would you like more evidence?

reply to post by dilly1

God you suck at debating.

And when all else fails, personal attack. Indeed, you know how to debate dilly.

You make no sense. First you say ,like I,, that to get the true history you need all sides of the story. But then ,,you say there is no such thing of Victorious vs Non-victorious only evidence...?? What??

Nice try, but is not going to work. But to answer your question evidence is that counts. And so far the "Copycat" theory is plain wrong.

You do know the existing evidence (that is so easily available,,most of it) is mostly from the powers that be. Not the entity or person who lost the struggle(the non-victorious).

That depends of what you called evidence.

I did provide a source,read my previous posts. But my sources are books not internet sites. That's probably why it didn't interest you.

Actually, you haven´t provided any source at all. Not even a reference to the books, which you citing from. So yes, so far you presented not a shred of evidence. Only personal attacks and opinions.

Thanks for the definition of copycat theory. But I could care less (about) if paganism has or not influenced Constantine's jesus.

See, that is the difference between us. You accepting things without looking at the evidence.

Its all faith. Pointless faith.

If you say so....

So who cares if Dionysus or the others fused together with Christianism.

Obviously, persons that have a true interest.

My point is true history has been suppressed,burned and raped by the victor.

Then i suppose the "Holocaust" didn´t happened? Or the "Armenian Genocide" or the "Crusades" or the other atrocities?

So you nor no one has a clue what really happened.

Due time, we all going to know the truth eventually.

Yes I know animals,,lol,,,(tigers and lions),,,but what does that have anything to do with this topic.? Are
you a PETA agent?lol

It was the answer to your question :" What are you afraid of?" on you first reply to my post.

Peace