The Christmas Hoax: Jesus is NOT the "Reason for the Season"

Originally posted by 547000
I don't buy that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ for the same reason I do not believe the claims that Easter is a pagan myth too. Just because other people had similar festivals does not automatically mean Christianity is a copy of paganism. Just because there is a myth about Horus does not mean Jesus was a copy. Just because there were other similar celebrations does not mean those holidays are pagan.

Easter is the funniest one of all...Or have you never heard of Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos..

Christian church must have had a brain fart with that one, they didn't even TRY to cover the Pagan God/Goddess roots.
I could weep.

reply to post by 547000


Hi, 547. I want to clarify that I think Jesus was a real person. He lived. I don't doubt that for one moment. He studied, he taught, he tried to spread the knowledge he had gained through enlightenment. And for his trouble, he was murdered. I think he, Siddhartha, the Dalai Lama, and others were more spiritually tuned in than most people.

The "Church" was not "given" authority. The leaders of it TOOK that authority -- to bend and twist and change and embellish and manufacture things to tell people. As for placement of the holidays, well, it just happens that people were already celebrating at those times of the year, and it was not unusual or unique that they had imagined mighty beings with supernatural powers. Were they real? I don't know. But they were celebrated.

Again, I think that every seeker needs to look into his faith, needs to question. To be aware of how the things they believe have been developed by others (or if they have).

All paths lead to the same place. It's up to each of us to find our own way, and truly know what it is.

Peace on earth.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Now, if you'll excuse me I'm heading round back of the cowshed to have some mead with Suspiria. Everyone is invited, but remember to play nicely.

Originally posted by 547000
I don't buy that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ for the same reason I do not believe the claims that Easter is a pagan myth too. Just because other people had similar festivals does not automatically mean Christianity is a copy of paganism. Just because there is a myth about Horus does not mean Jesus was a copy. Just because there were other similar celebrations does not mean those holidays are pagan.

Then look at the origins of each festival. Jesus died before the Jewish Passover had begun on Nisan 14th.

It had NOTHING to do with the festival of Easter, which celebrated the Spring equinox and the rebirth of the seasons and the time when winter was over and the season of growth, sunshine and all it heralded was about to begin. As mentioned by another poster -

Promoted as a celebration of Christ’s resurrection, Easter is actually rooted in false religion. The name Easter itself has been linked to Eostre, or Ostara, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of the dawn and of spring. And how did eggs and rabbits come to be associated with Easter? Eggs “have been prominent as symbols of new life and resurrection,” says the Encyclopædia Britannica, while the hare and the rabbit have long served as symbols of fertility. Easter, therefore, is really a fertility rite thinly disguised as a celebration of Christ’s resurrection.

Yup. What Suspiria and JB said.

Easter is a tough one to teach the little children about if you're wanting to keep it Christian, too. The bunnies and eggs just don't make sense with anything else taught to them. I thought it was bizarro even when I was a little kid...and when I became a parent, I remember discussing with family what the official "story" was to explain the bunny/egg thing. Kind of like the tooth fairy.

Some kids lose a tooth, they get a dime. Some lose a tooth, they get $25. I, pressed for a reason for the "injustice" of that, explained to my kids that the tooth fairies didn't know what money was. They just were given some coins and some pieces of paper, and told to put one under the pillow in exchange for the tooth. No concept of one being more important or valuable than the other.

As for Santa, I would venture to say that every child introduced to him eventually figures out, or finds out from other kids, that there isn't a guy coming down the chimney with a sleigh-and-eight parked on the roof loaded with gifts. They outgrow the "magical thinking", generally at about age --- say, 6? Seven, maybe? St Nicholas also, a real guy. So were King Arthur, William Wallace, King Solomon. Extraordinary people.

There is historical proof (outside of the Bible) that Jesus walked upon this earth. This historical proof does give some idea when Jesus was really born.

www.creatingfutures.net...

All you're doing is saying "Look, all these festivals are similar, so it can't be Christian". Same way someone could say "Look, all these deities seem similar, so Christianity is a counterfeit." Saying the latter would be dead wrong.

The Church was given authority. It is man who despise authority and finds reasons to rebel. I don't think all religions lead the same path. I reject universalism. Only by listening to heresies or being EXTREMELY liberal with Christianity could you say that. My experiences do not point that way but they point to specific doctrines.

A link for someone who wants to see it from a different point-of-view

Here is a catholic pov.

I've got a crazy idea... Read the bible and see what it has to say about when he was born. I would take the time to reference each verse that gives you all the clues to determine, but evidence doesn't matter to most of you, and you don't believe what the bible says. We know that Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant when Mary became pregnant. We know when Elizabeth became pregnant thanks to Luke giving the family name of her husband, thus allowing us to determine what week during the year he served in the temple. Simple math a 5th grader could do, would place Jesus conception around December 25. His actual birth would be in September during the fall feast of tabernacles. That's why Bethlehem was so packed, Jewish custom said all men must visit the temple during the fall feasts.

Like I said earlier, I just wasted my time. For a place that boasts about denying ignorance, in the years I have been on here, I have never encountered as much willfull ignorance on the net than i do on here. Merry Christmas

Originally posted by caladonea
There is historical proof (outside of the Bible) that Jesus walked upon this earth. This historical proof does give some idea when Jesus was really born.

www.creatingfutures.net...

You are seriously directing us to an obviously biased (and shoddily knocked up) site to provide us PROOF?

SERIOUSLY?

Jesus is recorded as a fact, as is His death, burial and missing body in the Reader's Digest Book of Facts, 1989.

Where most non-Christians get a little wary about the story of Christ stems from the fact that not a single element of the story of Christ is unique. The entire story of the nativity, the resurrection, the miracles, the trinity, look of Christ, the crucifiction, communion, wise men, all of it was borrowed from older myths and gods/demigods; it also doesn't help his case that the person that wrote most about Jesus (Paul), lived in what we now know as Turkey, which was right in the heart of Mithraic culture.
Another thing that doesn't bode well for the sake of evidence is that nothing written about Christ was done so while he was alive. Everything was written decades, if not centuries, after his alleged death. You'd think someone as prominent as a figure, making that much of a stink in the community, with those kinds of devoted followers would've been mentioned in some ancient graffiti, some roman records, something.

The story might have more credibility if people hadn't played with it and altered it to suit their own agendas for so long. When tasked with finding the truth beneath a mound of lies, most will just save the effort and disgard the whole idea as nonsense, especially after once all the pagan ideas have been removed, pro-male/anti-female, one god propaganda themes taken away, you're left with a normal guy who had strong beliefs, who pulled some universal ideas from Krishna, and other Eastern "love" faiths, but in short a "man", with no harm done whether you follow him or not.

reply to post by Suspiria


You are very good at making fun of people....your superiority just outshines us all...you must be so proud.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by Suspiria

 

You are very good at making fun of people....your superiority just outshines us all...you must be so proud.

Apparently I was made in Gods image.
Forgive me..

Please do carry on.

Originally posted by caladonea
There is historical proof (outside of the Bible) that Jesus walked upon this earth. This historical proof does give some idea when Jesus was really born.

www.creatingfutures.net...

Please read my previous posts. There was no copyright law back in roman time nor up to Gutenburg first printing press.

Josephus,Tacitus and Suetonius all spent there lives restoring there identity do to rampant forgery.

This is nothing but "hopeful fake material" you presented to us. Its hope that keeps you holding on to the this idea of jesus. Yeshua existed but not the Roman Christ.


The key word is Forgery. Scroll down on your pointless link and you will see at the bottom " copyright @ In his steps ministries".

Which means they(owners of the site) wrote word for word and they nor anyone can prove any of the quotes from antiquity.

Originally posted by Suspiria

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by Suspiria

 

You are very good at making fun of people....your superiority just outshines us all...you must be so proud.

Apparently I was made in Gods image.
Forgive me..

Please do carry on.

Suspira, I think the answer to all going on here is contained in the Poe quote in your signature.

I always see these arguments like this:
If I say the sky is green, how bent out of shape will "blue-sky" believers become? They won't. They see their truth as so painfully obvious, that my contention makes them giggle. They may even pity me. But they won't get their panties in a wad over my belief. When a truth is obvious and apparent, there's no impetus for argument. Becoming upset by another's belief is the result of a lack of confidence in your beliefs. Real truth can always be trusted to shine light on itself.

Thank you, OP, for giving the origins of such an influential holiday a chance to see the light of day. I love learning about why we are the way we are.

reply to post by dilly1


I presented another point of view.....you dispute it...I am ok with that.

By the way....I have read your other posts in this thread...and I am not impressed.

reply to post by 547000


Good points.

Not to mention...

CHRIST MAS has nothing to do with Christ?

Maybe the pagan holidays these chums are talking about, but "Christ"mas has EVERYTHING to do with Christ.

People are idiots... What can you do or say when they wanna be this way? Just let them be idiots.

reply to post by chasingbrahman

Thank you, OP, for giving the origins of such an influential holiday a chance to see the light of day. I love learning about why we are the way we are.

Well, you're very welcome! And to you, happy ATS-membership anniversary! Do you get a cake?

reply to post by caladonea


I looked at the link you posted, caledonea. In that post you stated that there was evidence that Jesus walked the earth. I just want to reiterate that I never claimed he did not...I believe he existed.
peace

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by chasingbrahman

 

Thank you, OP, for giving the origins of such an influential holiday a chance to see the light of day. I love learning about why we are the way we are.

Well, you're very welcome! And to you, happy ATS-membership anniversary! Do you get a cake?

Oh dear - I didn't even notice! Wahoo! I'm putting glitter on my tinfoil hat tonight and eating as many cookies as possible!

Originally posted by JB1234
And how did eggs and rabbits come to be associated with Easter? Eggs “have been prominent as symbols of new life and resurrection,” says the Encyclopædia Britannica, while the hare and the rabbit have long served as symbols of fertility. Easter, therefore, is really a fertility rite thinly disguised as a celebration of Christ’s resurrection.

Awww...say it aint so. I always thought bunnies and eggs just screamed crucifixion.


(my favorite dish on easter USED to be rabbit on a stick....now that has been ruined for me)