The Christmas Hoax: Jesus is NOT the "Reason for the Season"

reply to post by chasingbrahman


Yeah, mine is right after the spring equinox
....I mean, err the....
time in the first half of the year when day and night are the same length.

Then, depending (of course) on the moon cycles....comes "Easter!" On the first Sunday after the first full moon AFTER the Spring Equinox. Go figure. But Easter won't be ON my membership anniversary until sometime after 2100.

I guess I could proclaim that my membership date will henceforth be known as the celebration date of the Denial of Ignorance Equinox for ATS. I'll think about it.

Regarding the date for Christmas celebrations, the Enciclopedia de la Religión Católica frankly states: “The reason that the Roman Church decided to assign this date to the festival seems to be its tendency to replace pagan festivals with Christian ones. . . . We know that in Rome at that time, the pagans consecrated December 25 as the celebration of natalis invicti, the birth of the ‘invincible sun.’”

Therefore if indeed Christmas is a hoax masquerading as a Christian festival when it has pagan roots then this itself undermines a person's faith surely?

I'd rather have a faith built on foundations of truth not lies.

There are also lots of logical reasons why Jesus couldn't have been born in December also. The Bible indicates the infant Jesus was born whilst there were (Luke 2:8) "shepherds living out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks" which is always depicted in nativity plays. The Palestinian hills are too cold for sheep and shepherds to be outdoors in the depth of winter, often snow can fall in most years.

Here's a picture of Bethlehem covered in snow.



There is much evidence that infact Jesus was born during the 1st few days of October NOT his adopted birthday of 25th December.

Here is an interview with a Senior Priest at the Vatican, discussing the Roman Catholic Church.

Warning -- there is one tiny "badword" at the beginning

If you prefer not to hear it start at the 42-second tickmark.

This guy tells how the current Roman Catholic thinking has evolved. And ALSO states that Christ's birth is not Dec 25.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by dilly1

 

I presented another point of view.....you dispute it...I am ok with that.

By the way....I have read your other posts in this thread...and I am not impressed.

edit on 23-12-2011 by caladonea because: add more

Off course your not

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by dilly1

 

I presented another point of view.....you dispute it...I am ok with that.

By the way....I have read your other posts in this thread...and I am not impressed.

edit on 23-12-2011 by caladonea because: add more

Off course your not

You are very humorous! Thank you for giving me a good laugh! Take care.

wildtimes.. it doesn't matter when Christ was born.. the fact that we celebrate that He was born is what matters.

I have heard that Christs birth was not in December eons ago..its a moot point.

Originally posted by gabby2011

wildtimes.. it doesn't matter when Christ was born.. the fact that we celebrate that He was born is what matters.

I have heard that Christs birth was not in December eons ago..its a moot point.

edit on 23-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

Having blind faith is a moot point.

reply to post by gabby2011


I think the debate goes beyond the Birthday of "Jesus" being borrowed. We're now onto the entire story of Christ being a plagiarized work of fiction, which includes everything from crosses, to Crucifixes, to Easter, Christmas, Wisemen, the Nativity, the Last Supper, the resurection, the apostles, the purpose of "salvation", love thy neighbor, the baptism, everything.

reply to post by gabby2011


It's a moot point to people who already heard of it. It might be news to others.

Anyway, the point of the thread was to illuminate that many world religions have similar figures to Christ, whose births or conceptions or festivals are very, very similar to those practiced by modern Christians.

I respect and understand the actual premise of celebrating the birth of a great man. Have at it! Enjoy! What bothers me is that some Christians just dismiss OTHER people's great men and say those are "false" great men.

They were all great men. Who cares when you celebrate it? We were fortunate as a race, the human race, to have had some brilliant, enlightened people from time to time sharing things with us. They should all be revered and honored, equally. Saying, "My God is the real God and yours is crap!" is senseless. It leads to wars, hatred, strife, and destruction of the faith of both sides.

What good comes of that? If people can live in harmony and embrace one another's good qualities, and together they can stop those who do intentional harm....what difference does it make which name you use for the men who have inspired others to do so, to love, and to be humble?

reply to post by wildtimes


I believe that there are many roads that lead to Heaven....Jesus is just one of them....I so agree with you.

reply to post by wildtimes

What good comes of that? If people can live in harmony and embrace one another's good qualities, and together they can stop those who do intentional harm....what difference does it make which name you use for the men who have inspired others to do so, to love, and to be humble?

If you honestly believe those words.. why do you continue to put down Christians and their beliefs?

If I believe Jesus is the only way to heaven..what does that matter to you?..Why would people care if others don't agree with them?

I have said..you have the right to believe what you want..and I have the right to believe what I want..

I don't understand why people who are not into Christianity get so bent out of shape over those that do.. let me follow my beliefs peacefully..and I will let you follow yours.

I am not telling you what to do.. yet you insist on trying to change us.. and then you write the words above?..c'mon.. there is no humility and love in those actions.

The truth will be revealed someday..

reply to post by dilly1



Surely it's a moot point, very much so. Jesus or his Father Jehovah would have nothing to do with lies.

Jesus would be a hypocrit if he wished us to celebrate a date for his birth that is fictitious.
He roundly condemned the Jewish religious leaders of his day for teaching doctrines of men as doctrines of God.

(John 8:43-47) . . .Because YOU cannot listen to my word. 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, YOU do not believe me. 46 Who of YOU convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me? 47 He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God.”

The Bible DOES NOT give a date for Jesus birth. His death and resurrection were the important events and as Christians the only celebration he commanded us to commemorate was the Lord's Evening Meal, which is celebrated on Nisan 14th - the date of the Jewish Passover celebration.

(Luke 22:19) . . .Keep doing this in remembrance of me.. . .

reply to post by gabby2011

If you honestly believe those words.. why do you continue to put down Christians and their beliefs?

If I believe Jesus is the only way to heaven..what does that matter to you?..Why would people care if others don't agree with them?

That is fine, you believe Jesus is the only way. That matters not ONE WHIT to me.

What matters is that SOME people who call themselves Christians are all too ready to allow atrocities against other trusting people. THOSE are the "Christians" to whom I strongly and vehemently object.

And if you believe, as a Christian, that not protesting against those atrocities is somehow "Christian"... okay, well, yeah, then I do care.

It is wrong. And with or without your approval, I will continue to PROTEST ABUSIVE TREATMENT against people who are subject to and exploited by those who push violent agendae in the name of ANY God.

Originally posted by JB1234
reply to post by dilly1

 

Surely it's a moot point, very much so. Jesus or his Father Jehovah would have nothing to do with lies.

Jesus would be a hypocrit if he wished us to celebrate a date for his birth that is fictitious.
He roundly condemned the Jewish religious leaders of his day for teaching doctrines of men as doctrines of God.

(John 8:43-47) . . .Because YOU cannot listen to my word. 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, YOU do not believe me. 46 Who of YOU convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me? 47 He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God.”

The Bible DOES NOT give a date for Jesus birth. His death and resurrection were the important events and as Christians the only celebration he commanded us to commemorate was the Lord's Evening Meal, which is celebrated on Nisan 14th - the date of the Jewish Passover celebration.

(Luke 22:19) . . .Keep doing this in remembrance of me.. . .

Jesus and God have everything to do with lies. Hell, all messiah's , prophets and deities are based solely on forgery. You choose to ignore that vital important aspect when accepting some book(small library) from antiquity word for word.


"Jesus would be a hypocrite"? What?

Which jesus are you talking about? Jacov was called jesus too.

Jesus isn't a first name. You do know that right.

How do you know John(whomever that is) wrote [john8:43-47] ?

You don't

How do you know Luke (whomever that is) wrote [luke 22:19]

You don't


The fact that your whole life is based on the faith of a deity called God or jesus or the holy ghost is the sole reason of not wanting to learn other alternative gnosis. This is all you have and to question it yourself is the equivalence of russian roulet.


-All you have is a faith

-All you have is a small library made by sick demented men.

-All you have is an idea(faith), that is solely based on the influence of others around you . Which is the only single thing that holds you to your idea of God.

reply to post by dilly1

-All you have is a faith
-All you have is a small library made by sick demented men.
-All you have is an idea(faith), that is solely based on the influence of others around you . Which is the only single thing that holds you to your idea of God.

What do you think you will accomplish by bashing the faith of others? if you really believe what you are saying..be grateful that you do not believe and go about your business..

What could possibly be good about constantly harassing people for their faith.

reply to post by wildtimes

That is fine, you believe Jesus is the only way. That matters not ONE WHIT to me. What matters is that SOME people who call themselves Christians are all too ready to allow atrocities against other trusting people. THOSE are the "Christians" to whom I strongly and vehemently object. And if you believe, as a Christian, that not protesting against those atrocities is somehow "Christian"... okay, well, yeah, then I do care. It is wrong. And with or without your approval, I will continue to PROTEST ABUSIVE TREATMENT against people who are subject to and exploited by those who push violent agendae in the name of ANY God.

edit|: oops..got threads mixed up ..my bad.. (blushes)

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by dilly1

 

-All you have is a faith
-All you have is a small library made by sick demented men.
-All you have is an idea(faith), that is solely based on the influence of others around you . Which is the only single thing that holds you to your idea of God.

What do you think you will accomplish by bashing the faith of others? if you really believe what you are saying..be grateful that you do not believe and go about your business..

What could possibly be good about constantly harassing people for their faith.

Oh boy,, Most people call it bashing and some , just tiny some , call it opening your eyes. Compare it to a child watching a horror film while constantly covering her eye, while the same her mother is telling her its all an act .


I guess mommy forgot to tell you about the fake blood.

reply to post by dilly1


My eyes have been opened in my opinion..

I respect your choice to believe what you want..why can't you respect mine?

I am not calling you a fool for believing what you wish to believe...I am not trying to cram anything down your throat..

Why do you insist on ridiculing?.. perhaps you are insecure about what you believe?

reply to post by dilly1


Of course I know that Jesus was a common first name in First Century Palestine . Hence why historians called him "Christus" to seperate him from other characters also called Jesus, such as Jesus Barabbas who was set free by the Jews instead of Jesus Christ in front of Pilate.

How do I know that the Bible is inspired of God? and that John or Luke wrote this or that?......

Firstly because history attests to the Holy Scriptures as the most widely published and read book in the History of Mankind. Which is entirely to be expected if it truly is the Word of God.

The Bible's historical accuracy has been proved time and time again.

The prophecies contained in it's pages have always come true.

You mentioned specifically the writings of Luke....

Luke in particular to me stands out as an authentic writer of the Gospels....He is meticulous in his details and what's more goes to great pains to differentiate between when he was an eyewitness to an event or when he was recounting someone else's account of a happening. He often alternates within one sentence betweern WE and THEY

A legal writer once observed: “While romances, legends and false testimony are careful to place events related in some distant place and some indefinite time, thereby violating the first rules we lawyers learn of good pleading, that ‘the declaration must give time and place,’ the Bible narratives give us the date and place of the things related with the utmost precision.”

In proof he cited Luke 3:1, 2: “In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, and Herod was district ruler of Galilee, but Philip his brother was district ruler of the country of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was district ruler of Abilene, in the days of chief priest Annas and of Caiaphas, God’s declaration came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness.” There is no indefiniteness here as to time or place, but Luke names no less than seven public officials so that we can establish the time of the beginning of John’s ministry and that of Jesus.

Originally posted by JB1234
reply to post by dilly1

 

Of course I know that Jesus was a common first name in First Century Palestine . Hence why historians called him "Christus" to seperate him from other characters also called Jesus, such as Jesus Barabbas who was set free by the Jews instead of Jesus Christ in front of Pilate.

How do I know that the Bible is inspired of God? and that John or Luke wrote this or that?......

Firstly because history attests to the Holy Scriptures as the most widely published and read book in the History of Mankind. Which is entirely to be expected if it truly is the Word of God.

The Bible's historical accuracy has been proved time and time again.

The prophecies contained in it's pages have always come true.

You mentioned specifically the writings of Luke....

Luke in particular to me stands out as an authentic writer of the Gospels....He is meticulous in his details and what's more goes to great pains to differentiate between when he was an eyewitness to an event or when he was recounting someone else's account of a happening. He often alternates within one sentence betweern WE and THEY

A legal writer once observed: “While romances, legends and false testimony are careful to place events related in some distant place and some indefinite time, thereby violating the first rules we lawyers learn of good pleading, that ‘the declaration must give time and place,’ the Bible narratives give us the date and place of the things related with the utmost precision.”

In proof he cited Luke 3:1, 2: “In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, and Herod was district ruler of Galilee, but Philip his brother was district ruler of the country of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was district ruler of Abilene, in the days of chief priest Annas and of Caiaphas, God’s declaration came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness.” There is no indefiniteness here as to time or place, but Luke names no less than seven public officials so that we can establish the time of the beginning of John’s ministry and that of Jesus.

Where do I begin?

There were two Jesus..Jesus Barabbas was Jacov(Jacob) , and the other Jesus was Yeshua. There was really no Christus. That term came after.

How do you know these Forged scriptures are holy?

Just because the bible is the #1 seller doesn't make it a TRUE STORY. And do please include: the extreme possibility of infested rampant forgery thru-out the NewTest.

When and How was the bible proven time after time. I'm dying to know.

Name one prophecy that the bible has predicted?

How do you know luke is a meticulous writer? Has he written other sonnets for another publisher? How do you know he was an eyewitness to any event? Are guys are down like that? The We or They thing means what when referring to luke being the actual author?


So let me get this strait,,because the bible depicts Time and Place ,, then it must be Authentic???

Sure buddy
Time