Kim Jong-il Has Died

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by detachedindividual

We would all have been celebrating in the streets if we were alive when Hitler died.

And KJI is not Hitler... to make that comparison is absurd.
How many died at the hands of KJI?

If you want to compare leaders to Hitler, perhaps try some US presidents or British PM's

Try convincing the North Korean people who have been starving to death for years now, or at least those who have managed to survive by feeding on human corpses and insects.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Try convincing the North Korean people who have been starving to death for years now, or at least those who have managed to survive by feeding on human corpses and insects.

*Sigh*


I didn't say he was nice or kind or a good leader or treated his people well.
But to compare him to someone who ordered the death of millions of people, invaded countries and waged wars... is as I said, absurd.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
Yeah, it is not like he wasn't the target of ridicule before he died...

That's fine man.... mocking the living and mocking peoples eccentricity is all well and good.
But do people really need to do it when someone dies?

Is that where are species is right now?

Mocking the dead?

At least those of us who don't live in North Korea have the luxury of taking the piss without running the risk of becoming sarin-fodder in one of his prisons.

reply to post by blupblup


I can agree, but for the suffering people of NK, it makes no difference, evil that causes extreme pain and suffering, and death has no comparison, from their perspective he was as bad as it gets.

Whether he was bad enough to be a "hitler" to you, or not hardly matters.

reply to post by blupblup


Okay, clearly you are not open to discussing like an adult. You're saying one thing and then backing down and suggesting I'm assuming something different. Go back through what has been said in this thread and you'll see that you HAVE been defending KJI, by suggesting that he is better than all the other puppet leaders out there, that we should somehow respect his memory, or that everyone is wrong and lied to about how the NK people live.

Yet, I notice no one has responded to the statement that these claims about what it's like in NK come directly from the people who have escaped that country.

You're stating that everything we believe is propaganda, yet you're not willing to confront the fact that everyone who escapes that country has a story to tell backing up what we know about it.

No doubt it'll now be suggested that all those people, in all those documentaries and reports, are all paid to say what they say...

Strange, I fail to see where there is any benefit for other nations in issuing propaganda about a country that only China actually deals with. If we were broadcasting that propaganda to the Chinese people I might understand it, but as we're not I fail to see why any country would need to influence their people in their opinions of NK.

reply to post by Chadwickus


ha ask anyone that was in libya at the time....Thier was UN troops hiring for weeks beforehand Its all BULL

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Okay, clearly you are not open to discussing like an adult.

How so?

I responded to all your points? I guess you just don't like it when you accuse people of something and then it doesn't quite pan out.

by suggesting that he is better than all the other puppet leaders out there, that we should somehow respect his memory, or that everyone is wrong and lied to about how the NK people live.

You're a moron.

I never said anything like that....


No wonder you don't want to discuss.


Anyway, I've made my comments and I'm done.

Cheers.

reply to post by Speakerofthetruth


No, you're speaking BULL.

So...the thousands that died for standing up for what they believe in...oh wait, no sorry, the thousands that died because they got paid to....

You see how absurd it sounds?

If things were so great there, why did all these people accept money from the UN to protest??

See how absurd it sounds?

Where all the evidence of these goings on then?

You must think I'm stupid if you're suggesting that thousands of people were paid off to go and get shot at by the Libyan army...

things dont look to good with the crazier Kim taking over, his son is a nut job

YAY!

Hopefully the North Koreans can actually get something to eat now. But that's probably not going to be the case, since Kim Jung Il's son looks to be just as his bloodthirsty as his dad.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Okay, clearly you are not open to discussing like an adult.

How so?

I responded to all your points? I guess you just don't like it when you accuse people of something and then it doesn't quite pan out.

You have again said that I compared KJI to Hitler. I DIDN'T.

God, you are infuriating!

The discussion was about not celebrating the death of anyone. I pointed out that Hitler's death was celebrated. I did not compare KJI to Hitler.

This is why you have proven that you are not capable of having this discussion. You're manipulating what other people are saying for your own ends, and others can clearly read it all when they go back through this thread. You're not doing yourself any favors by lying so transparently.

KJI is dead, he was a dictator. He built bombs while his people suffer. He lived in mansions and secured himself surrounded by highly paid officials.

Whether you think other leaders are not so much better is neither here nor there. Two wrongs do not make a right. You cannot excuse his actions against his people simply by comparing him to western leaders and their failings. I agree that our leaders are corrupt, manipulated and issue propaganda at will, but I do not use that to defend a failed dictatorial regime and the way they treat their people.

That is where we obviously disagree.

I am done discussing this with you, you cannot debate like a sensible adult.

I do not think that this good news because his son looks more up for a fight then his father and his fathers death could be something that causes him to lash out.

reply to post by EvolEric


This whole situation does not bode well for NK in the short term.Many factors outside the country will now attempt to exploit the change of power and command for who knows what ends. Of course, we'll (the US) will be right in the thick of it and in all likelihood there will be some (unwanted) hand-holding while the country goes through whatever changes are now coming down the pike.
The toughest time will be experienced, of course, by the time-encapsulated and well-insulated citizenry. They are still in a 1950 mindset for everything. They still feel the US/S.Korean invasion of their country is imminent. Remember, everyone, most of these people just need our patience and our understanding as we are as strange to them as they are to us.
What horrible things mankind continues to do to itself.Just look at how far a man (KJI) will go to keep the power he has. Are we ready YET to move beyond this sort of behavior? Oh, How I do wish it were so.

Originally posted by Phenomium

Originally posted by AllUrChips
They will announce the trade of food aid from the US for them stopping their nuclear program.
Second line.

edit on 18-12-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)

rt.com...

edit on 18-12-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)

I just don't understand why America is telling everyone else that they can't have nuclear bombs and trying to enforce that, yet America currently had 5,113 nuclear warheads and at one time in the 60's had
31,255 warheads. America is also the only country who has actually used them in an act of war against another country...Nagasaki and Hiroshima, Japan. Other than blatant hypocrisy, is there a reason for this? It just seems to be no other reason than hypocrisy, am I wrong?

You see it as hypocrisy because you are taking it as a given that all nations, cultures are inherrantly morally equal - the only culture that I would be happy to see in a position of hegemony is Western style liberal democracies - absent the ability to very swiftly put our boot on the neck of the rest of the world, you will have either Islam, China or Russia very firmly putting their boot on your neck - sorry but that's a fact of life. It comes from having common sense and it trumps ridiculous moral qualms about 'hypocrisy!

I know you shouldn't rejoice when someone dies...but in this case, I'll make an exception. FINALLY!!!

Pity Kim Yong Il will be succeeded by his son "Mental Li Il"

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I wouldnt get too excited yet..his son might be even more of a nutjub, and considering his age...he might just try something

reply to post by MrXYZ


Agree totally...oh its a good thing, for this second. But I would rather have a "controllable" or contained mad man in there before one that cant be, and you gotta know his son is probably way, way out in left field. Lets just hope he doesnt think he can reunite the koreas by trying to invade etc...who knows...might not be a good time to be over there (

Kim Jong-il iHas Died

wait for it.....wait for it......What, no jubilation?

Thr guy was a DICKtator, and is/was allegedly responsible for over a million deaths.

Me thinks people die every day.

Me thinks sometimes people die who deserve to die.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
I know you shouldn't rejoice when someone dies...but in this case, I'll make an exception. FINALLY!!!

Pity Kim Yong Il will be succeeded by his son "Mental Li Il"

edit on 19-12-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

I thought his name was "Small Dong Dil?

Or am I gettting my dicktators mixed up?