Christianity, is it child emotional abuse?

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by 547000
A parents duty is to protect his child and raise him right. What will you do if your child goes to hell because of your inability to give him any discomfort? ...

Seriously....you see nothing wrong with punishing your child for something he/she did NOT do?

What YOU call religion, others would call sadistic. (and law enforcement would classify as abuse)

you remind me of a case where a mother burned her daughter with a cigarette to "teach" her that life is painful.

law enforcement IS the abuser. Really poor example in this day and age.

reply to post by manna2


No actually priests having their way with little boys are the abusers......but once again, this thread is about how religion is taught, and its possibility to cause trauma in young children. EMOTIONAL trauma (we all know the sex abuse happens.....please LEAVE that for another thread)

reply to post by vogon42


I cannot say I relate. My childhood was filled with a loving church family that watched out for what I was saying and doing. They taught me to value others and seek to fill the needs that were missing in the lives of the lost. While my friend across the street stayed home on Sunday, I was at church worshiping God and learning truth. My friend across the street was home watching TV while his alcoholic mother slept in her own urine. When I would go across the street on any given afternoon, I would be witness to the abuse coming from his family in the form of neglect and ungodly behavior. The comparison I drew between my family and his allowed me to see the value in seeking goodness and self-control from faith in a loving creator. Across the street, I could often hear his mother arguing with the drunk next door. I swore to myself I would never live like that and allow my children to be abused by self-centered behavior. Despite the opportunities, I kept myself away from that lifestyle as I became an adult. His mother would not allow him to come to church with us, despite our offers.

Years later, I can look back and compare my life with many of my unchurched friends. The friend across the street became an alcoholic and created his own broken family to abuse. Another friend down the street got a girl he hardly knew pregnant and lived out a copy of his father's greedy life of crime. Another friend went to the same college as me and became a homosexual. He was abused by his cousin. Years later and he is a broken man and alone, alienated from his family. Not because they rejected his lifestyle, but because he burned his own bridges by a self-centered nature. There are many other examples.

I have taught school for 20 years. I see the same examples played out daily. I have the unusual opportunity to see my students in class from 6th-12th grades. The students who succeed most in life come from loving and caring Christian families. The students who are selfish and unruly are typically from families who have never gone to church. In these homes, the basic needs of love and belonging are not met. Instead, the parents are busy partying and ignoring their children. They raise children who repeat the same lives of moral poverty, only to raise a repeat generation of the same tragic mistakes of self-gratification and destructive choices.

We take our sons to church each Wednesday and Sunday. We continually seek to guide our kids in the Christian faith by example and love. We serve in the community and volunteer our time to good causes. As compared to those in our community who do not attend church, our kids thrive and are happy. They make good choices and are the top of their class. Are there exceptions in our community, where unchurched families thrive? Yes. Mostly because generations before had been faithful to religious practice. The generations that followed, regardless of church or belief, benefited from the love that follows one generation to the next. We are products of our past. Christianity offers a model of love and discipleship that is unmatched in the world.

Are there exceptions in Christian homes, where we see poor upbringing? Yes. Any home that lacks love and humble examples of dedication to others will see failure in leadership as the primary cause of any problem. Neglect is not simply a problem for those who do not attend church. In the end, it comes down to the choice we are willing to make by example as parents. A true Christian home or place of worship will model loving-kindness and a spirit of compassion to others. If not, true faith is not practiced.

The question comes down to this: Which house do we see good choices modeled the clearest? In the house of worldly pursuits or in the house of God? The answer is either. If you choose a proper church to attend, you will see the fruits of that choice blossom. If you choose to provide a home where proper choices are modeled, you will also see the fruits of these choices create good opportunities. Combine these together and the cycle of poverty is broken.

Abuse only happens at the hands of those who choose to look away from their responsibilities to a higher good.

Kids are very sensitive to things that for us, adults, are nothing but empty words.
I remember even now, when, as a child, my fanatic religious ant told me that god watches me all the time, so I should behave all the time, even when I'm alone. For a long time I was turning the light off in my room to get my clothes off, and apologizing in my mind every time I went to the bathroom.
I was always afraid that no matter how good I was, my mom will go to hell because she wasn't just as fanatic about god as my ant was, and I cannot save her. She also always told me that god loves us, but to me it seemed a very hard earned and demanding kind of love.
There were many, many small things like that which tormented my childhood, that probably none of the adults was aware of. In the end, the result was that I start hating god, and got rid of it for ever. I'm much better without that kind of love, thank you very much.

Did it traumatized me? I don't know. But it surely left me with a lot of problems that took years of introspection and self searching to get rid of.
I think that to have real faith you need either a real miracle, or real fear. And since the miracles disappeared long time ago, all it's left for the church to keep the sheep together is fear. And they instill that fear in the children's hearts as early as possible, so they will never have the chance to really think by themselves. Total control of the masses.

reply to post by vogon42


Sounds like you have a pretty jaded view of things you do not even understand nor care to understand. You don't pray to hear God's word, you give offerings to help other people because that money goes towards feeding and clothing needy families. See? This is what having a jaded and narrow mind does to a person. It causes you to make up fictions in your mind.

I think what makes a church event traumatic for kids is when their parents haven't taught them the beliefs of that particular denomination so the kids know what to expect.

If your parents are Catholic and teach you Catholicism from the cradle then the Catholic church is probably comforting. On the other hand, I know a woman whose mother didn't go to church and a neighbor started taking her to a Catholic church without adequate instruction. The priest insisted that this little girl confess her sins but she couldn't think of anything to confess. So she was terrified of the Catholic church after that and never went back.

I had a similar experience when I about 10 years old. I was raised as an Episcopalian and we didn't use terms like being "born again" or "saved". So I went to a 2 week church camp where everyone convinced me that I was going to hell because I wasn't "saved". I kept trying to get "saved" and nothing would happen. That was a miserable 2 weeks. When I got home my mother told me not to worry about it.

So parents make the difference between a positive and negative experience for the kid.

I feel sorry for you if that is the memories you hold of Church. I havent attended Church for years until I recently revisted my old Church last Sunday. Recently I was thinking what a wonderful time it was in my life ( I went to Church until I was about 14), we had Sunday school, I met great friends whose parents were friends with my parents. My parents had bible fellowship on Wednesday nights so I'd see all those same friends on Wednesday nights and we'd get to stay up to like 11pm, literally like 20 kids running around going crazy. The Church was a wonderful community and the people there made you feel like a part of a larger community that cared. I am now married and have very little social or community life, we are all locked away in our caves stuck on the internet or in front of the tv. Well I am anyway lol. What a great time it was I want to go back seriously. The fire and brimstone can be full on but I kind of enjoyed the end of world scenarios they warned us of , especially when they studied Revelations. Sort of similar to being on ATS I guess.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by 547000
A parents duty is to protect his child and raise him right. What will you do if your child goes to hell because of your inability to give him any discomfort? ...

Seriously....you see nothing wrong with punishing your child for something he/she did NOT do?

What YOU call religion, others would call sadistic. (and law enforcement would classify as abuse)

you remind me of a case where a mother burned her daughter with a cigarette to "teach" her that life is painful.

Not telling your child about hell is irresponsible. Because you don't know it is a real place you insist it is abuse to learn about it. If you are a christian parent you have to tell your children about it lest they end up in it forever. If they grow up past the age of responsibility they will end up there without proper upbringing. Might I remind you that God considers you an adult and responsible for your actions way before human society does?

Do you really think ignorance will excuse you? If so, it's best not to share your faith with anybody.

Proverbs 13:24

"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."

IIf you know it's a possibility for you child to end up in hell forever wouldn't you teach him all that is needed to avoid that fate?

reply to post by 547000


So are you saying you think some emotional abuse is good for a child?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by vogon42

 

Sounds like you have a pretty jaded view of things you do not even understand nor care to understand. ...... that money goes towards feeding and clothing needy families..

Since this post was started with views from my OWN experience......I believe I understand what I am talking about.

As far as the money.....Does your preacher have a SECOND job? (no, ok, so your sure most of that money does not go into his pocket?)

once again, this thread is about how religion is taught, and its possibility to cause trauma in young children.

reply to post by vogon42


Abuse is a relative term. Learning about hell is not pleasant but it must be done, same like how children must do things they detest for their betterment. To you hell is some myth so you think it's abuse. To those who know the truth hell is real. What sort of uncaring parent knows this but yet does not even bother to warn his children about lasting consequences to their actions? Do you let your child touch the stove because you feel slapping his hand away is abuse?

I guess it all depends on where and what kind of church you attended.

The church I grew up in taught love... forgiveness... humility... being true to yourself... the values of hard work and frugality... generosity... encouragement... and it was backed up by scriptures from the Bible.

Consequences of your decisions was also covered... and how it applies to our life here on Earth... and how it applies to our life after we pass from this world.

It was reinforced by events where we visited sick and shut in people, had fundraisers for less fortunate families, volunteering and helping with community projects that helped people, and having fun while we did it. And there were events where we were allowed to be just kids...playing and having fun in a loving and protected enviroment with a Christian perspective.

I use Jesus as a point of reference when He said you can jude a tree by the fruit it bears. A good tree will bring forth good fruit, and a bad tree will bring forth bad fruit.... sounds like you were served bad fruit from a poor church.

Teaching your child about a mythical, eternal torture chamber full of horrors and pain is.....
kind?
responsible?
loving?
reassuring?

No! It's terrorism. It is a control tool. And especially when it is construed as inevitable for so many, because "all" are sinners. Therefore, you better come back here once a week, and dig into those pockets, folks, cuz you are not worthy ... you have failed....and will continue to fail...

The traditional concept of Hell does NOT come from the inspired Hebrew or Greek manuscripts. It is a pagan myth adopted as Christian doctrine in the third century by church fathers. Yet, then as now, innocent people are taught the traditional concept of Hell by trusted authority figures. That trust deters questions, so for hundreds of years the myth has perpetuated. The KJV and other translations have also perpetuated the myth by less than the most accurate translation of the word Hell.

link

Used to be, in the days of the middle ages in areas where the Roman Catholic church was ruler, that you could buy your way out of your sins by contributing labor or money to the church. This was a way they maintained their estates and fattened up their "heads of church."

How is it -- this teaching of hell -- any different than say, a loan shark? If you don't pay us, we will break your knees; you'll wear concrete shoes; your family will be killled.....

So. Are those loan sharks teaching their "customers" goodness, kindness, generosity?
Uh, no.

Originally posted by cloudyday
I think what makes a church event traumatic for kids is when their parents haven't taught them the beliefs of that particular denomination so the kids know what to expect.

If your parents are Catholic and teach you Catholicism from the cradle then the Catholic church is probably comforting. On the other hand, I know a woman whose mother didn't go to church and a neighbor started taking her to a Catholic church without adequate instruction. The priest insisted that this little girl confess her sins but she couldn't think of anything to confess. So she was terrified of the Catholic church after that and never went back.

I had a similar experience when I about 10 years old. I was raised as an Episcopalian and we didn't use terms like being "born again" or "saved". So I went to a 2 week church camp where everyone convinced me that I was going to hell because I wasn't "saved". I kept trying to get "saved" and nothing would happen. That was a miserable 2 weeks. When I got home my mother told me not to worry about it.

So parents make the difference between a positive and negative experience for the kid.

THANK YOU for providing an actual, on topic, sensible response! I certainly will ponder it.

Its nice to see someone who is christian can respond without threats of hell due to the fact that I asked a simple LOGICAL question.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by vogon42

 

... Do you let your child touch the stove because you feel slapping his hand away is abuse?

edit on 19-12-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

No, I simply tell my child the stove is hot. Do you see how that can be done without abuse?

So just leave it at "don't sin, mkay. sins are bad, mkay" and leave it to it, not even explaining why? I think you're being naive. At any rate I am glad I don't plan on having children. They won't even believe the explanation of hell until much later in their lives, mostly never. What's the use of having a child if you know they are most likely to go to such a horrible place?

reply to post by SuperiorEd

We take our sons to church each Wednesday and Sunday. We continually seek to guide our kids in the Christian faith by example and love. We serve in the community and volunteer our time to good causes. As compared to those in our community who do not attend church, our kids thrive and are happy. They make good choices and are the top of their class. Are there exceptions in our community, where unchurched families thrive? Yes.

>>>>>>>>Mostly because generations before had been faithful to religious practice. The generations that followed, regardless of church or belief, benefited from the love that follows one generation to the next. We are products of our past. Christianity offers a model of love and discipleship that is unmatched in the world.

Originally posted by 547000
So just leave it at "don't sin, mkay. sins are bad, mkay" and leave it to it, not even explaining why? I think you're being naive. At any rate I am glad I don't plan on having children. They won't even believe the explanation of hell until much later in their lives, mostly never. What's the use of having a child if you know they are most likely to go to such a horrible place?

WOW.
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly that you have NO BUSINESS parenting a child!!

And I suspect you had crap parenting as a kid yourself. Quite a twisted concept of "nurturing" and "responsibility" you have going on there!!

Have you ever considered what life could be like if you'd never heard of Hell? But had been taught compassion, kindness, and the Golden Rule? Yikes. Relax. You'll give yourself a heart attack!

Originally posted by 547000
.....What's the use of having a child if you know they are most likely to go to such a horrible place?

Seriously, I am not making fun or taking a jab at you. Honestly if your view if life is that dark perhaps you should consider putting down your bible and talking to some one professional.

Also there are support groups for victims of emotional abuse.
Sounds like you are not finding much peace on your current path.

Originally posted by wildtimes
.... You have not studied world religions if you honestly believe this. Buddhists, who have no concept of "hell", are FAR more loving.

edit on 19-12-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Careful.....some of these people might get scared if the learn there are options other than just christian and athiest.