Christianity, is it child emotional abuse?

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Leave it to paul to miss the mark over and over...

27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Jesus said "if you loved me, keep my commandments"

How many Christians are baptized in Christs name, and yet spread hate throughout the world?

Again I do not believe that you will be swayed by anything I say but I believe Peter explains very well the problem with Paul’s message. I could explain to you in more detail as both Paul and Peter are very aware of the writing style that Paul is using, but I am sure you would just say I’m crazy. Here is what Peter has to say.

2 Peter 3:14-18
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

You must understand that there is only one baptism. Baptism by water is only an outward sign that you are a believer. The one true baptism is baptism of the Holy Spirit.

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Not all that say they have been baptized have received the one true baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism in no way guarantees the baptism of the Holy Spirit, nor is water baptism a prerequisite to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is the reason for the confusion in Paul’s letters. And anyone who has received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not confused by Paul’s letters or how they were written, and will completely understand the meaning of Hebrews.

To make sure that I do not come across as righteous I feel like I need to include this. I have only done one thing, something that anyone can do; I had and still have complete faith in the entire word of God presented in the Bible. I am a sinner and consider myself to be unworthy of the gifts that have been given to me. It is this feeling of being unworthy that humbles me and fills me with the desire to spread the truth. I must not fail to press forward and continue to pursue the will of my father.

SuperiorEd do you think I said this correctly? I value your input.

edit on 25-12-2011 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

yes i've heard the "peter" arguement many times... this only gives less weight to Peter's writings...

Im not going to get into paul and the issues i have with him as to not derail this thread...

But generally speaking he does not line up with Jesus...

Though if you prefer paulianity, by all means...

reply to post by Akragon


Both Jesus and Paul are calling men to be righteous by following the will of god. Both agree that by following the first two commandments you will indeed be doing the will of God, and be following the law. Both agree that the ultimate goal for every Christian should be to follow in Christ’s footsteps. I'm not sure why you feel they are so far apart.

But I guess you are right this thread has been derailed enough.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Wildtimes is running around trying to be an evangelist. I think Wild is simply trying to defend an opinion and have others accept the right to that opinion. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Remember we will be judged by our actions. Faith without actions is like having no faith at all.

Thank you, from the depths of my soul. No, I'm no evangelist. I appreciate your actual Christian-like attitude and kindness. Season's greetings....the renewal of life begins again.

In good faith,
--wt

reply to post by SuperiorEd

The paradox is this: Eastern thought is based on the concrete and literal world. This renders it neutral to full truth. Most of what is received from Eastern thinking is one perspective of the mysteries. The Bible is written in abstracts. This allows the mind to find more meaning form the symbolism. The key to unlocking the symbolism is the Eastern literal truth. Until the two meet, there is no full understanding. Pride keeps the two apart. Witness this pride here in this thread. The two of you have been arguing about this and you both fail to see the excluded middle.

Eastern thought is concrete? Based on the "literal" world? It teaches that what we see is illusion, that we are all one, all living with the spark of the Divine within us. All things are connected -- the physical world is a function of our biological embodiment. Our spirit knows better, and that spark of spirit is the impetus for the seeking to begin with. Not until our bodies perish do we come closer to that Divine truth...

Are you familiar with the Tao? The Tibetan book of the dead? Alan Watts?

Again, Ed, your circular argument very eloquently lapsed into riddles (a la Confucius). Jesus, the brilliant, is the one who taught where the two meet...I fully acknowledge what he taught, and seek to grasp it. How is my attempt to offer someone, anyone, a bit of information that may allow them to think outside the box in which they have locked themselves..."arguing"?

Kindly stop projecting onto me. You do not know me, and you have misunderstood me. I would ask, as a humble spiritual soul on my own journey, that you refrain from making any further "assessments" about me, my choices, my opinions, or my "problems" with God. You asked before to show where you have "judged"...in your earliest entries to this thread, you made claims of the "unchurched" being barbarians and bereft of any hope for salvation. That was a judgment. I say we are all bound for the Divine.

Good day to you, sir.

reply to post by sacgamer25

To make sure that I do not come across as righteous I feel like I need to include this. I have only done one thing, something that anyone can do; I had and still have complete faith in the entire word of God presented in the Bible. I am a sinner and consider myself to be unworthy of the gifts that have been given to me. It is this feeling of being unworthy that humbles me and fills me with the desire to spread the truth.

And here we are, back on topic!! Thank God!!
you said above:
I am a sinner and consider myself to be unworthy of the gifts that have been given to me.

Why do you think you are a SINNER and UNWORTHY? Because as a youngster someone in "authority" told you so, and claimed it was what Jesus had said, and that Jesus was the ONLY son of God. You believed it, because you were an impressionable child. And it scarred you for life.

Case in point. You are fine, sacgamer, you are a human being, with a Divine soul, struggling just like the rest of us to make sense of the mysteries that perplex us.

Blessed be.

reply to post by wildtimes

Why do you think you are a SINNER and UNWORTHY? Because as a youngster someone in "authority" told you so, and claimed it was what Jesus had said, and that Jesus was the ONLY son of God. You believed it, because you were an impressionable child. And it scarred you for life.

What about those of us who heard the exact same gospel message and believed long after our impressionable childhood years?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Then I would venture to say you did not have sufficient strength of self-awareness and self-esteem that you were still vulnerable to the message. It instilled fear into you by grabbing onto your uncertainties and doubts.

Use caution when hearing any words of shame spoken to you. You are a worthy soul, on a personal journey to the Divine truth. It is no man's business to tell you that you are a failure.

reply to post by wildtimes


Ahhh, I get it now, so it's certainly not the truth in any way shape or form? That there must be some sort of circumstance, either youth or psychological disorder, that would make someone a believer in Christ? That's it to you? Either too young or too psychologically disturbed?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Ahhh, I get it now, so it's certainly not the truth in any way shape or form? .....

Exactly, religion taught by way of child abuse is not the truth.
There are other ways to tech religion to children, it does not require threats and intimidation.

Try reading the bible to them, rather than threatening them with it.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Ahhh, I get it now, so it's certainly not the truth in any way shape or form? .....

Exactly, religion taught by way of child abuse is not the truth.

I don't think ANY religion is the truth. They are all man-made attempts to justify oneself to God.

There are other ways to tech religion to children, it does not require threats and intimidation.

I've been a teacher of pre-K kids at church for a long time. Never once has Hell been in the lesson plan. I can't think of anyone who came to know Christ by intimidation. How can someone be scared of something they don't believe in?

Try reading the bible to them, rather than threatening them with it.

Okay, let's forget for a second that truth isn't determined by how comforting or scary it is. Truth is truth whether anyone is aware of it or not. I've never 'threatened' anyone with the Bible. But let's say I start reading in Genesis and a child asks me what sin is. Am I to lie to them? How is lying more morally correct to do in that situation?

We keep reading and the child asks what God's commandments mean? What if they ask what the punishment is for refusing to do what God says to do? Should I begin lying at that point? So what about this moral dilemma? It's either tell them a truth that isn't pleasant or tell them a lie.

By your reasoning I should never tell a child they will be punished for doing something wrong.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

By your reasoning I should never tell a child they will be punished for doing something wrong.

Actually, if you re-read my post you will see that I stated threatening them is wrong. There is a difference between talking to a child and threatening them.

(I'll give you a hint - If little johnny is crying like the kids in the video....you have it wrong)

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

By your reasoning I should never tell a child they will be punished for doing something wrong.

Actually, if you re-read my post you will see that I stated threatening them is wrong. There is a difference between talking to a child and threatening them.

(I'll give you a hint - If little johnny is crying like the kids in the video....you have it wrong)

F.Y.I. I didn't watch the video. I'm not going to allow someone who used the extreme exception to the rule to try and define the rule. That's a monumental fallacy of logic and rational thought.

Okay, I agree, threatening children is wrong. We agree there.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
.....
F.Y.I. I didn't watch the video. I'm not going to allow someone who used the extreme exception to the rule to try and define the rule. That's a monumental fallacy of logic and rational thought.

....

As has been stated multiple times in this thread, it understood these are the nut jobs, and not the norm.

Why do you feel someone is trying to define them as the norm??

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
.....
F.Y.I. I didn't watch the video. I'm not going to allow someone who used the extreme exception to the rule to try and define the rule. That's a monumental fallacy of logic and rational thought.

....

As has been stated multiple times in this thread, it understood these are the nut jobs, and not the norm.

Why do you feel someone is trying to define them as the norm??

Oh, I don't know.. perhaps it's the term "Christianity" in the thread title.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Oh, I don't know.. perhaps it's the term "Christianity" in the thread title.

That's because the nut jobs in the video, and the funeral protester people.....(and I'm sure there are other whacked out groups)...all consider them selves christian. Therefore they fall under the term "christianity".

reply to post by wildtimes

Use caution when hearing any words of shame spoken to you. You are a worthy soul, on a personal journey to the Divine truth. It is no man's business to tell you that you are a failure.

How nice to hear you say that wildtimes.. so I'm going to assume you were just kidding when you posted these words about me?

That kind of relationship is toxic. Only a gutless wonder would persist in trying to sustain it. Thanks for playing, but you lose. It doesn't matter what you spout if your heart is that cold, calculating, and malicious.

oh and heres another one..to me and ed..

I don't expect you or gabby to comprehend those concepts, as it seems to be beyond your grasp: the two of you are absolutely closed-minded, convinced you are correct, and blindly, egotistically, boastfully proud of your own perceived superior righteousness.

what is truly sad is that after you posted these and I quoted you..you go back and edit your posts to make it appear like you never said them..

If you honestly believe these words wildtimes.. how can you put so many down in shame..including the people in your Op video?

Again..I quote you..below..

Use caution when hearing any words of shame spoken to you. You are a worthy soul, on a personal journey to the Divine truth. It is no man's business to tell you that you are a failure.

Yet you have done the very same thing written above ^^ above ^^ by starting this thread in the first place.

another quote by you which is not true..below

you have received a heartfelt apology more than once.

You have never apologized for what you have said to me.. in this thread or other threads.. only have apologized once for what you said about Deborah Irwin...in a u2u..

It makes me sad that you wish to deceive..and tell false truths..I would have loved a heartfelt apology for the things you have posted to me and about me.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Oh, I don't know.. perhaps it's the term "Christianity" in the thread title.

That's because the nut jobs in the video, and the funeral protester people.....(and I'm sure there are other whacked out groups)...all consider them selves christian. Therefore they fall under the term "christianity".

No, the thread asks if "Christianity" is child abuse without giving any qualifier. The OP doesn't mention that it's only nutjobs who call themselves Christians. The title asks if "Christianity" is child abuse. So again, with the wording of the thread, how am I to know that it doesn't really mean 'Christianity' despite what the thread title and OP state?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

No, the thread asks if "Christianity" is child abuse without giving any qualifier. The OP doesn't mention that it's only nutjobs who call themselves Christians. The title asks if "Christianity" is child abuse. So again, with the wording of the thread, how am I to know that it doesn't really mean 'Christianity' despite what the thread title and OP state?

Thank you.. that is exactly the point I tried to make to wildtimes at the beginning of this thread.

There are nutjobs out there who believe they are doing the right thing.. in many religions.. including pagan religions.

To dump on Christianity as a whole because of a few misguided zealots is unfair.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

No, the thread asks if "Christianity" is child abuse without giving any qualifier. The OP doesn't mention that it's only nutjobs who call themselves Christians. The title asks if "Christianity" is child abuse. So again, with the wording of the thread, how am I to know that it doesn't really mean 'Christianity' despite what the thread title and OP state?

Dude, you really have to start reading the posts. As was stated by me earlier (on this page).

"As has been stated multiple times in this thread, it understood these are the nut jobs, and not the norm."

Do you notice the "IN THIS THREAD" part?

As in,
OK, through this post I have come to realize that not ALL christanity is child abuse.
So, your asking a question that has already been answered.

Should I re-title the thread "Christanity, we now know only PARTS of it are child emotional abuse" ?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I admire your reasoning, but the fact remains... the trinity as in... Father son and spirit being equal is false doctrine.

And i was just wondering... What makes you believe God is a person?

edit on 24-12-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

What was before God? According to God, he is one. Being Eternal, He is infinity at rest. Since there are no materials outside of infinity, what is Eternal encompassing all that is. God is outside of what is created, yet what is created is still Him. We are the result of collapsing wave function of infinity. God is. We get no more than this from Him other than creation. Creation declares His Glory. This means the cosmos, above and below, is a symbol leading us to discover the hidden nature of God. For us to be a person, we must be part of the person of God. Three persons of God have been revealed as part of the our own being. Light is the prima materia that was used. We can easily connect this to the Trinity as I did above.

In answer to your own view, as compared to my view, we are both correct. It is not as simple as I make it and it is not all that is included in infinity. In reality, our universe is merely a glimmer off the edge of what God is. We can only see what He reveals on a basic level to our developing sentience. If this is the first lesson, imagine what follows.