Palestine Exists 2.0

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Why does the existence of Palestine bother you so much. I think you are bigoted against Islam and racist towards Arabs. You may consider his a personal attack but I assure you that is not my intention. These are honest observations I have noticed during our interactions.

Why does disbelief in the existence of Palatine make you any Islam? Isn't that the same thing you claim about Jews and Israel?

Did you know that when the Muslims first took Jerusalem, they meant it to be a global sanctuary for all peoples? That's why the Dome of the Rock is not a mosque, but a shrine for Abraham, Jesus, and Muhammad.

When the Caliphate conquered the region, it was mostly a Christian region, not necessarily tied to any one nation. It was then renamed "Jund Filastin", or the Military district of Palestine. Even then it was not populated by Arabs, nor were the so-called Palestinians there.

Modern day "Palestinians" are the remainders of the tribes of the Arabs whom were given rights to settle there, already settled Christians, and resident Jews.

Unity was the main goal of most of these tribes. They wanted unity in order to keep the caliphate alive and well. Over the eons, they merged into what we call Palestinian.

If you wish to call them Palestinian, than you must also accept the fact that they are not a single people, but the result of a continued coexistence in the region. by many different people. Some from Persia, some from Egypt, some from Arabia, etc etc. Whoever was a mobile person in the age of the caliphate.

No different, really, than all the tribes of Latium being called Italian. Italian doesn't really exist It is simply the result of coexistence of many different cultures being unified.


Simply put

Who we call Jews today in the region are simply the remnant people of ages past merged with their lost brethren in the west. Who we call Palestinian today is the aforementioned.

The region is native-less. It has no natives. Simply the most recent residents whom haven't slaughtered each other yet.

Palestinian does not exist.

Israelite does not exist.

Who does exist:


Western Jew

Arab

Lakhm

Kindah

Qais

Amilah

Judham

Kinanah

Monophysite Christians, from Syria and Egypt; from Europe and arabia.

Early Muslims, whom lived by Christians, probably some sort of hybrid to them.

Ancient Jews, whom long since lost their heritage and were simply law keepers of the land.




To use the invented word "Israelite" and "Palestinian", is simply to be ignorant of the history of the region.

reply to post by Gorman91

Why does disbelief in the existence of Palatine make you any Islam? Isn't that the same thing you claim about Jews and Israel?

I don't know why you asked me that question since I never actually said that. How about you go find someone who actually said this and then ask them this question as it doesn't apply to me.

I did mention certain observations about Gravi, but I never said disbelief in the existence of Palestine automatically makes someone anti Islam, although in Gravi's case he is clearly against Islam as his post history has proven this on many occasions.

I'm personally against all religions in principle but I respect a person's right to religion regardless of my opinion of their beliefs.

It seems you took my post out of context and also took it as a general statement when it was directed directly to Gravi. I hope that clears it up for you

reply to post by gravitational


You're completely missing the point Gravitational, Palestine was a nation as created by the British Mandate, and the reason for posting the census was to show it wasn't made up of a single ethnicity, but rather Arabs, Jews, Christians, even a handful of other creeds/races. It had a government, issued currency, passports, stamps, a flag, etc. - in short, it was a nation by any legal definition.

Palestine was a lot like America is - a mixture of several races and creeds. Are the American people an "invented" people? What IS an American? White? Black? Christian? Jewish? Catholic? Palestinian people were, as shown by the census of the early 20th c., Arab, Jew, Christian, Druze, Coptics, even some Hindu. THESE are the Palestinian people.

The previous posts that discuss Palestine's ancient history show that it's been recognized throughout history as it's own entity, a nation, a region, a land, and it's people - whether it was by the Hebrews who recognized it in their bible (Peleste), or the Greeks, the Romans, the Ottomans, or neighboring Jordan, Syria, or Turkey. If you refuse to consider that history and prefer to rely on Western Powers 'legal definition' of what a nation or state is, then you have that condition met from the Balfour Declaration and then the British Mandate for Palestine. But that is a very arrogant view, isn't it? That only when "the powers that be" of the West formally recognize a country do we define it as such. As so, more than 139 nations across the globe recognize Palestine as a nation. UNESCO also recognizes Palestine as a nation.

It was the Zionist Organization, even as early as the British Mandate for Palestine, that wanted to carve out it's one SEPARATE state WITHIN Palestine and EXCLUDE all these other races and creeds from their state. Not only were Muslim Arabs driven out but MORE Christians were driven away in 1948 and never permitted to return.

Palestinian Christians

In a 2007 letter from Congressman Henry Hyde to President George W. Bush, Hyde stated that "the Christian community is being crushed in the mill of the bitter Israeli-Palestinian conflict" and that expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem were "irreversibly damaging the dwindling Christian community".

Christians began to emigrate from Palestine after the establishment of the state of Israel. Many Palestinian Christians emigrated to countries such as Australia, Jordan, Lebanon, the United States and Canada, and a larger number to Latin America with the most settling in Chile and Argentina. The Palestinian Authority is unable to keep exact tallies.[17] As well, Muslim Palestinians have higher birth rates than the Christians, which strongly affects the demographics.[5][11]

The causes of this Christian exodus are hotly debated, with various possibilities put forth.[16] The vast majority of Palestinian Christians blame the exodus on Israel.[38] Reuters has reported that the emigrants left for better living standards rather than any other reason.[17] The BBC has also blamed the economic decline in the Palestinian Territories as well as pressure from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for the exodus.[5] A report on Bethlehem residents stated both Christians and Muslims wished to leave but the Christians possessed better contacts with people abroad and higher levels of education.[39] The Vatican and the Catholic Church blamed the Israeli occupation and the conflict in the Holy Land for the Christian exodus from the Holy Land and the Middle East in general.

The Arab Human Rights Association, an Arab NGO in Israel, has stated that Israeli authorities have denied Palestinian Christians in Israel access to holy places, prevented repairs needed to preserve historic holy sites, and carried out physical attacks on religious leaders.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


You said

Why does the existence of Palestine bother you so much. I think you are bigoted against Islam and racist towards Arabs. You may consider his a personal attack but I assure you that is not my intention. These are honest observations I have noticed during our interactions.

Sure, directed at him, but the reasoning is no different than calling someone antisemitic for not wanting Israel toe exist.


But you see, I know my religions. Judaism cannot be separated from Zionism. They are one in the same. And Islam sometimes seems to demand ownership of the land. So as a Christian, I'm in a unique position. My faith doesn't demand any Holy Land. Thus, I think it ought to be owned by the whole world via the UN. It's only fair for a location that has never been truly owned by anyone, and yet occupied by most of the nations on Earth.

“I admit my post may have lacked proper etiquette but my statements were truthful and were not due to any "facts" that you presented. My rudeness originated from you calling us Jew haters. You accuse us of resorting to name calling, but any time we disprove your lies you call us Jew haters. Surely you must see the flaws in your logic. “

“We obviously disagree on this issue but it does not change the fact that you spread propaganda from Zionist web sites. This tactic of yours has been pointed out in numerous threads including this one. “

Seriously? Bank Leumi is a propaganda Zionist site? How ridiculous are you willing to sound to make a point? Would you like me to trace the origin of posts made here by you and others and show you how biased they are against Israel, or how many of them directly connected to pure Anti Semitic web sites? Trust me, it's doable.

“Why does the existence of Palestine bother you so much. I think you are bigoted against Islam and racist towards Arabs. You may consider his a personal attack but I assure you that is not my intention. These are honest observations I have noticed during our interactions.”

The invention of the Palestinian people was made only as a tool to annihilate the only Jewish state . This is an irrefutable fact, announced by Arab and so called Palestinian leaders, a fact that repeatedly chose to ignore.

“I'm willing to admit my bias and the faults in the side that I support meanwhile you blindly support your side and blatantly refuse to logically consider a possibilities from both points of view. You are very difficult to reason with which is why most our interactions are never pleasant ones.”

Sorry, anyone who openly support the actions of a terrorist group and try to sugar coat it with “but the other side is to blame” argument, will meet my refusal to consider “possibilities”.
A group that - you fondly call 'freedom fighters' – that sends a suicide bomber to a restaurant, a bus or a shopping center, a terrorist that looks in the eyes of men women and children, shouts Allah hu Acbar and blow them to pieces, will not get my sympathy, nor those who support them.

“Even as we provide undeniable proof of Palestine's existence going as far back as ancient times you still echo the same non sense and refuse to admit the obvious existence of the Palestinian people.”

No you haven't. Just the opposite. I suspect you do not even read what has been presented before you. A thorough research in none-Zionist web sites would tell you the exact same thing.

“I don't know what else to say since all attempts to reason with you are always met with stubbornness and deflections. I have plenty more to say but I'm on my mobile so I will save the rest for Palestine”

I see. Anyone who disagree with you, and don't give you ATS stars, is by default an unreasonable stubborn person who uses deflections.
Go back to the Arab leaders quotes and tell me who uses deflections in this debate.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


A nation is not a people though. Over the ages, it has become identified as a people. Which is undeniably false. I think this is at the heart of everything.

That's also what Ron Paul got at. He, too, knew his history.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


You must be elated that human beings are this stupid.... All you need to do is start a new thread, repeat the same points, add a few pictures on a map, post a few videos showing pictures of "palestine" i.e. the land referred to as Palestine by visitors to Israel, and call that proof of a "palestinian people".. and people swallow it up. It must make you feel good, as a propagandist, to see 40 plus stars on this thread... 40+ people were stupid enough, and ignorant enough, to think those pictures proved the existence of a "palestinian people".... Way back when, in the 1800s.... Amazing.

Now, if people knew the history of the region, understood the endless migrations in an out of the region, from Mohommad Ali's troops in the 1800's, to the mass migrations in the 1900's by Arabs from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, the Hedjaz and the rest of north Africa, this thread would be exposed for the farce that it is...

But alas, you as an educated propagandist in the theory of rules for radicals, probably understand people are way too lazy and indolent to do that research.. Plus, a prejudice is already firmly implanted within their psyche...Deeply in, like a tree, with roots extended into the earth, their opposition to Israel and support for the "Palestinian people" requires little evidence..Just a bit of an emotional thump in any direction, like this pseudo-scientific effort to prove their existence....

What's shown in that video, is the same, identical culture that could be found in Damascus, or Beirut, or Amman.. I even wonder if people know what these places are... or what i mean when i say that... I'm saying, they're all Arabs.

Biggest mistake Israel ever made, thanks to the idiocy of menachem begin, was to acknowledge the lie of a palestinian people. Now, its been some 3 decades since, and the lie has grown, and the propaganda and perception has become a socially accepted premise.

So, instead of arguing ad infinitum, I'm just going to say something quick and leave. You have no intention to stop this, and I don't have time to endlessly argue about this.

Now, I will say, thanks to the myth makers of yesterday, modern Palestinians truly believe that there is a people called palestine. So i'll make this concession. Since 1967, when the myth was created, as with all people, the Palestinian people were born. But their roots lie not before the Zionist settlement and investment in the land, as so many argue, but after, when they realized the only way to fight Zionism was by making an equal claim to it. And thus, through lies, and not through an authentic history (as in Zionism i.e. Judaism) the Palestines believe they will be able to beat the Jews.

I feel confident they will lose. This crap may work elsewhere, but in Israel, the apple of Gods eye, directly under divine providence, the center of creation....Things work a bit differently, and the ignoramuses out there will soon see how...

reply to post by dontreally

I feel confident they will lose. This crap may work elsewhere, but in Israel, the apple of Gods eye, directly under divine providence, the center of creation....Things work a bit differently, and the ignoramuses out there will soon see how...

Replace "Israel" in your statement and this is how fascists anywhere justify their slaughter. Let's see how it works;

"But in Nazi Germany, the apple of Gods eye, directly under divine providence, the center of creation....Things work a bit differently, and the ignoramuses out there will soon see how... " - Hmm, yep sounds like something they might say.

Or:

"But in Babylon, the apple of Gods eye, directly under divine providence, the center of creation....Things work a bit differently, and the ignoramuses out there will soon see how... "

Hmm yes I can see how a despotic regime in Babylon might once have used that attitude to justify the captivity of Jerusalem.

Maybe even;

"But in Communist Soviet Union, the apple of Gods eye, directly under divine providence, the center of creation....Things work a bit differently, and the ignoramuses out there will soon see how... "

Oh wait I forgot, communists were godless. Well, still they were fascists, exactly where such sentiments as yours appear to come from, and used to justify any regimes brutality throughout the ages.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

Replace "Israel" in your statement and this is how fascists anywhere justify their slaughter. Let's see how it works;

It is has never been said, in any other time, or period, that such and such a place was the apple of Gods eye..

That has only been said about the land of Israel. It was a metaphysical statement. Not something I would expect you to understand. It is something, clearly, that the Jewish, Christian and Muslim elite are aware of...or else, what is this interest in the land?? and the ceaseless fight over? Click on my sig and enlighten yourself as to why.

As to comparing this to fascism... I really have no clue how you managed to pull that connection out. Is it because you think the Palestinian Arabs are the victims?? Heres the history. In '47, the UN partitioned Palestine into two states, as that little pic in the beginning of this thread showed. The Jews were granted the north eastern portion, the Tel-aviv-Jaffa-Haifa region. An area with a sparse Arab population - just 30,000. Did the Arabs accept this nominal gift to the Jews for their troubles?? Look at the map again. The Arabs were granted the VAST Majority of the land. Were they satisfied with that? Was their any sense of brotherly love for the plight of the Jews - whose own president, Chaim Weitzmann, said he would have been happy with a Jewish state the size of a napkin? And bearing in mind - the Jewish people, have for 2 millenia, prayed to Jerusalem, pilgrimaged to the Holy land, and yearned every second of those 1900 years of exile, to return... Not even a sliver the Arabs would give up. So they ATTACKED the Jewish state in '48. The widening of that map was due to the success of the Jewish reaction. The Arabs ARE AT FAULT for the refugee problem, and any sensible person would understand that.

Did the Jordanian or Egyptian occupiers of the "west bank" (Judea and Samaria) and Gaza establish a government in the areas they controlled in their 19 years of occupation? Well of course not! They didn't Give a flying # about the suffering palestinian Arabs. All they wanted to do was create world sympathy and play the 'oppression' card. In '67, they AGAIN attacked the Jews, 5 Arab states, and Again, the Jews succeeded, beyond all expectations, in defeating their enemies, They won more land. The west bank, the galilee/golan heights, and the Sinai. As a present to the Egyptians, Israel gave the Sinai back. with its military bases, its oil reserves, and its settlements.... They gave it up for a peace of paper - a promise of peace.

And here, all we hear, is about Israeli oppression. When the difficult situation and circumstances created today, is the product of Arab tactical genius. As well as the help of the western media.

It is abominable that anyone could refer to the Nazis when talking about Israel.. But then again, the world has always had it out for the Jews, and things haven't change, nor will they ever change, until this "Jewish problem" is solved.

reply to post by dontreally

I even wonder if people know what these places are... or what i mean when i say that... I'm saying, they're all Arabs.

When I look around Israel all I see are Europeans and Americans minus a few Africans so what's your point? No matter which way you try and lay it out for us you're not going to fool us. You call me an educated propagandist but in reality I'm just a regular dude who tells it like it is, at least in my opinion.

You make it sound like this is a one sided argument with no room for compromise. Personally, I believe you have made a few good valid points but that does not change the fact that you spread propaganda whether you know it or not. I sense that you have good intentions versus some of the other shills on here which is why I try and stay civil with you.

Please do not expect us to accept what you say as truth just because what you speak is important to you. The premise of this thread is ridiculous because with the evidence available it should be a well know fact that the Palestinian people exist. The fact that I'm here arguing with you on the internet about this very topic is a prime example of how the current world we live in is a complete joke.

We have been divided and conquered, well some of us. I consider myself one of the "good guys" and it's my obligation as an enlightened human being to denounce the lies and propaganda that gets presented. You can call it a hobby of mine if you must.

Most of us have been lied to since the beginning of our indoctrination to education and religion, and some people never learn any better and continue to believe the false truths you were told as a child. A lot of your arguments are based on hatred and misconceptions. I'm not blaming you for this behavior because it seems as if you were taught this way versus wanting to become like this, so it's not your fault.

There is no denying the existence of the Palestinian people. The Zionists may have domesticated a few Arabs and convinced them to allow certain statements of theirs to be quoted, and now here you are acting like a few possible statements from a few corrupted humans represents all the Palestinians.

My friend's cousin is Jewish and said that the current state of Israel is an embarrassment to what real Jews stand for and since he is Jewish and said this, that must mean he speaks for all Jews, right? Well according to your logic and a few others that's how things work.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

When I look around Israel all I see are Europeans and Americans minus a few Africans so what's your point?

Have you seen Palestinians?? Do you know how many have white skin? Look at the King of Jordan. Does he look like an Arab to you??

No matter which way you try and lay it out for us you're not going to fool us. You call me an educated propagandist but in reality I'm just a regular dude who tells it like it is, at least in my opinion.

Even if you were a regular dude, you're a regular dude with a malevolent agenda.

Anyone can follow my posts. Unlike you, i post in other forums beside political ones. Read my philosophical-religious views. I am an authentic person who subscribes to a high morality.

The same cannot be said about you. Just look at your Avatar. Why not change it? why project that image? And even more importantly, why are so many people numb to the image it projects?

The premise of this thread is ridiculous because with the evidence available it should be a well know fact that the Palestinian people exist.

Post '67, fine, they were created thanks to Myth makes in the Arab league, like the famed Musa Alami. But, before '67, it is simply not true. There was no Palestinian people. Do you get that? Palestinians didn't even EXIST as an administrative region until 1918 - when the British created the British mandate of Palestine. Before that, it was controlled by the Ottoman empire. It wasn't even known as Palestine. Colloquially, yes, visitors to the holy land called it Palestine (anglicization of Palestina) but only because this was the name attached to it by the Romans so many centuries earlier. And to be precise, it was Syria-Palestina, and it referred to the entire levant region, from Damascus, to Gaza.

Fact is, this has always been one of the most cosmopolitan areas in the world. It was the HOLY LAND. Greeks, Turks, Circassians, Germans, Persians, ALL flooded into the land. During Ottoman rule, the demographics of the populations were constantly changing. Never was their any "Palestinian people" because there was always so much variation, migration, and movement, for a distinct ethnic population to ever develop.

It a political myth. It is politically motivated. Why again do you ignore this statement made by Zuheir Mohsen?

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

We have been divided and conquered, well some of us. I consider myself one of the "good guys" and it's my obligation as an enlightened human being to denounce the lies and propaganda that gets presented. You can call it a hobby of mine if you must.

Oooh...clever humanistic tactic. Now you're taking a more demagogic route with your propaganda. You're just one of the good guys eh? Then why do you rely on images of a geographic region to prove the existence of a people? Why do you ignore the actual history of the land? For instance, Mark Twains observations of Palestine when he visited?

A lot of your arguments are based on hatred and misconceptions. I'm not blaming you for this behavior because it seems as if you were taught this way versus wanting to become like this, so it's not your fault.

LOL. Are you serious? My friend, i was not taught this way. I am a completely free thinker. I go to school for sociology/political science, and have a degree in psychology. Does it sound like I was raised by religious fanatics? My family is christian, and have never been very religious. How else do you think I came to embrace Hebraic metaphysical ideas? My family?? It's been me. My own lifes course led me to what i know. When i talk about religion, i mean it in an entirely metaphysical - esoteric way. I speak in the terms of an intellectual. Someone who doesn't understand what i do, will probably agree, for dogmatic reasons, but my support of Judaism and the Jewish people is a belief in a theological-sociological approach to life. I could care less about anything else.

If the palestinians are not palestinians then who are they?

Are they the indigenous of that region?

Do the occupiers of West Bank, Gaza and so called refugees have any rightfull claim to the mythic pre 1947 region of palestine?

There are many intelligent people with very convincing arguments that the so called palestinians are invented. Please educate the so called confused refugees and the occupiers of gaza and west bank they are not palestinians. They have no right to any property because they are invented.

reply to post by Suffi


Palestinians may now be de-facto a separate people but their undeniable artificial creation, was to hide the real reason for Arab animosity towards Israel and more importantly their real intentions.

Using the newly created 'Palestinian people' - the conflict could then be re-packaged as a bogus human rights issue, with the collusion of the leftist media.

Through endless drip drip repetition of lopsided spin articles they could attach all the fashionable memes to hook the useful idiots in, Zionists, Aparthied, Nazis, fake jews, holo-hoax, warmongers, etc etc.

To hook in the left all they needed to do was attach it to anti americanism, anti- imperialism, anti-white people ism etc etc.

Originally posted by Suffi
If the palestinians are not palestinians then who are they?

Are they the indigenous of that region?

Do the occupiers of West Bank, Gaza and so called refugees have any rightfull claim to the mythic pre 1947 region of palestine?

There are many intelligent people with very convincing arguments that the so called palestinians are invented. Please educate the so called confused refugees and the occupiers of gaza and west bank they are not palestinians. They have no right to any property because they are invented.

IMO

I think the Palestinians have evolved into being Palestinian.

Look back at any "Name" of any "Group".

Where did the name "America" and "Americans" come from ?
Why is that name usually associated with people in the USA?

How did "Germany" or "Holland" or any other nation get their names?

It does seem probable too, that "Israel" as it is today, has been populated (or re-populated) by primarily Europeans. The fact that Judaism is highlighted there since all the "declarations", makes "Israel" an evolved society too. Israel today is not the same as 2500 years ago, it has evolved into what we see today.

Were any "Europeans" involved 2500 years ago?

What is the big problem with "recognition" anyway?

What are the Israeli and Zionist supporters so worried about?

reply to post by gravitational

Go back to the Arab leaders quotes and tell me who uses deflections in this debate.

I don't care what any "Arab leader" said. A few Arabs don't represent Palestinians. Do Syrians speak for Saudi Arabians? How about if the king of Saudi Arabia said Yemen is fake, would it then be true?

As I told don't really. I know a Jewish person who said Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't exist in it's current form. This person even has family who lives there. Since they're Jewish and said this, does it make it applicable to all Jews in Israel?

You expect us to believe Palestine doesn't exist because a few people may have said this in the past? Let's ignore all the other evidence and just listen to a few corrupted Arabs who said what they were paid to say, if they even said it at all. If it was said it was probably misquoted by the Zionists. That's how they work, and you know this.

I'm Canadian and and we have idiots who say that the Native tribes of Canada never existed. They never had their own regions that they lived off of. We do it here too, it's not just the Zionists. My country is having a lot of embarrassing things uncovered from many years ago and recent events as well. I don't sit here and try to paint a false picture and lie about it, and I don't try to deny known facts.

You're in extreme denial, or have you an agenda.

reply to post by xuenchen

How did "Germany" or "Holland" or any other nation get their names?

This isn't a game xuenchen.

The conflict is real. The liars calling themselves Palestinians do not mean post '67, when the nationalistic ideation took hold. They're claiming there has ALWAYS been an ethnic identity called "Palestinian". This is a blatant lie. Sure, I already conceded that the identification has been forged, and those born in the region since this propaganda has been megaphoned now call themselves Palestinians.

But, too little too late. It was a lie from the beginning, and the identity as it exists today, was a tactic created to challenge the Jewish claim to the land.

I'm sorry. The facts are clear. The Jewish claim is a REAL claim, 2000 years in formation. A people with a separate language - Hebrew, a culture, and a religion - Judaism. These criteria set them completely apart as different from Arabs, whereas this myth of a distinct Palestinian identity, how different is it, really, from Arabs born in Lebanon, or Syria, or Jordan, or Egypt???

Arabs want nothing but a united Arab federation, and the Jews have gotten in the way of that dream; of that monopoly on the wider Middle East.

If they don't know how to share, then i guess people will suffer. Jews have taken the #ty end of the stick far too many times now. They have to stand up and say: This land is ours! It was given to our forefathers! We were unfairly kicked out, and we have for 2000 years - as a matter of verifiable fact - yearned to return to it.

It was a Cinderella story before the Western liberals and the Arabs began to play political games like stuffing refugees in camps and blaming israel for it.

reply to post by dontreally

Oh Christ!
Are you for real?
Do you think we are living in the past?
Your fantasy doesn't work anymore. Your fantasy has no basis in fact, and people NOW know it.
You should understand that there is a VERY big change going on in the world. The U.S. does have its intellectuals, and they are catching up with the world.
You will see. The future is nothing like the past. The American monkey has died.

FYI, I know the leaders of Israel are the most racist people on the planet, and you do too, don't you really.