Iran displays captured US drone

The claims the drone was shot down are bogus considering it's in pristine condition.

It was probably delivered by FedEx to Iran, curtsey of the most corrupt & bought and paid for government on Earth, the US Congress.Throw them a bung and they are anyone's. Just ask Israel.

reply to post by yeti101


Yes, I've read about that. The video that they "hacked" was not encrypted. It was freely transmitted to multiple soldiers on the ground that had simple devices for real-time imagery. They don't try to hide that video feed.

It is really time consuming to take a picture, encrypt it, transmitted it over radio, receive it, decrypt it, and display it on a screen. Video is at least 24 pictures/frames per second... encrypting it would create a delay in the video which could cost people their lives if they depended on that video to be real-time.

The video they were able to see was not the video which the pilot of the drone was using to fly. Nor did they intercept the signals used to fly the drone. The video they got was similar to the video you can intercept when you buy a cheap wireless nanny cam from ebay and use the receiver to see what other people who own similar wireless nanny cams are capturing.

Yep, looks like they got one.



By the time they figure it out, the US will have moved on, or found a way to counter anything the Iranians could develop that could be used against this type of drone.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
You're thinking way to technical. you also seem to be assuming that Iran hacked the drone.

Actually, no, I am not thinking way too technical. I know the communications between the drone and the flight systems are encrypted, and I know it is a custom protocol which requires unique authentication between each command and response. There is no way to "middle-man" your way into a communication in that case.

Also, no, I am not assuming that Iran hacked anything. My argument is that they did NOT hack anything.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
It's more believable that Iran disabled the signal somehow- doing so would be easier than hacking into the drone. The technology is available to do this. There have even been instances in the past where American drones on missions have lost contact with their operators and have subsequently crashed (or shot down by an American fighter as a precaution, in one case).

You must have not fully read my previous posts. These drones are autonomous and they don't rely on external signals to operate. It would be very dumb to create an autonomous vehicle that relies on a constant signal because everyone knows wireless technology is not 100% reliable. So they can't "jam" or "disable a signal" and cause it to crash because it would just fly itself back to where it came from on it's own.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
The fact that Iran has confiscated downed American drones in the past shows that they've had the opportunity to analyze the equipment to get some idea of how to deal with it. Add to this Iran's intelligence capability which, considering the long arm of the IRG, probably has the ability to update the military with information concerning updates to American drone control. Then there's the fact that countries like Russia are allowed to, and actually are arming Iran with electronic warfare hardware designed to counter drones.

Even if they reverse engineered a confiscated drone, it would be impossible to "middle-man" hack the communication of a drone and take control of it because it would required them to know the authentication sequence on the ongoing connection to the drone.

To put it in layman terms with an example... "I have a question, and you have to answer it correctly before I follow your commands. Do you know the answer?" Of course you don't know the answer because you have no hints, and the answer is completely hidden from you, and it would be impossible for you to find the answer especially if the question and the answer was encrypted and changed every time you tried to guess.

The only way to down the drones would be with physical force. That is all I am saying.

reply to post by K1771gnorance


so what? they used $25 software and a laptop on a multi-million dollar peice of us military equipment to gain a strategic advantage

this drone was most likely brought down by the Iranians using electronic warfare. Not saying they took control but did enough to stop the drone working as normal probably causing it to crash

i think your in serious denial if you think that's not possible

Now they have have it they will soon know the precise capability of this drone. Thats not good news at all for the US military

American stealth technology is useless. There is a reason why no other advanced country(not stuck in stone age) really cares about it. If you want proof look at Americas "super jet" the F22 its that good it isn't allowed to fly...

Originally posted by jerico65
Yep, looks like they got one.

By the time they figure it out, the US will have moved on, or found a way to counter anything the Iranians could develop that could be used against this type of drone.

Doesn't really matter what the US may do in future, As of right now any attack against Iran by cruise missiles and other guided munitions have been compromised and could have little effect.

The Bully has been kicked in the testicles, which should make him stop and think.

reply to post by K1771gnorance


K1771gnorance

I contend that your theory is very plausible, how ever I must side with Dimitri Dzengalshlevi on this and say they more than likely did hijack it. Because if it lost signal it would have RTB'd aka returned to base, not glided down into a hostile environment where they are usually going to be deployed.

That would be an asinine protocol or feature for commo error and or loss.

reply to post by ADVISOR


reading about on the web most analysts agree with you. The pristine condition of the drone indicates it wasn't shot down. If that was the case it would be a pile of mangled wreckage.

Looks like it was electronic warfare of some kind. Here's the iranians version.

On Thursday, the Commander of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) Aerospace Force Brig-Gen Amir Ali Hajizadeh said "through precise electronic monitoring it was known that this plane had the objective of penetrating the country's skies for espionage purposes. "After entering the country's eastern space the plane was caught in an electronic ambush by the armed forces and it was brought down on the land with minimum damage."

reply to post by e11888


I thoroughly think we underestimate other nations and their ability. Especially when they have all the money they want to spend.

For that drone to have been "shot down" I looks like its is in pretty good shape. More like it came to a nice gentle landing. Whether it was hacked or not..I was put down there for a purpose.


Added question: Have the internal been fried? Does this drone have a non-destructive self destruct? Mainly frying all hardware and software?

Just to clarify, Here are some doc that highlight freqs used for UAVs and drones, its not all auto and I've been in the HQ TOCs with JTAC members, so I may have a "slight" idea as to what I am talking about, from experience.

Not saying I am the expert, but having worked with them, am not ignorant of the process.




Just do a search on the following for example;

A Stepped Frequency CW SAR for Lightweight UAV Operation
www.dtic.mil/…amp;doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA472240
•
Found exclusively on: Google
lightweight UAV platform. An SF-CW radar offers some distinct advantages over a pulsed radar. It measures the frequency response

Small UAV Command, Control and Communication Issues
www.barnardmicrosystems.com/…2_Barnard_DEC_2007.pdf

The crowded spectrum 1 INTRODUCTION 1.1 UAV communications ...
ftp.rta.nato.int/…TO/EN/RTO-EN-009///EN-009-02B.pdf

COMM OPS: Trends in Communication Systems For ISR UAVs ...
www.milsatmagazine.com/…rticle.cgi?number=893938022
•

Jun 3, 2009 ... Thus many Tier II UAVs use links in L- or C-band as well as S-band. Although there is less bandwidth available at the lower frequencies

Source of search above results
www.dogpile.com...

Originally posted by yeti101
so what? they used $25 software and a laptop on a multi-million dollar peice of us military equipment to gain a strategic advantage

They didn't use anything on a multi-million dollar piece of equipment.... The equipment was untouched and completely protected. They simply picked up a signal that was intentionally transmitted into the air for free so the soldiers on the ground could also use 25$ software and a laptop or smartphone to see the view from above. I don't think you understand that the video they got was intentionally low-tech so soldiers on the ground can use low-tech devices to view it. So what, the enemy got a hold of a low-tech video feed.

Originally posted by yeti101
this drone was most likely brought down by the Iranians using electronic warfare. Not saying they took control but did enough to stop the drone working as normal probably causing it to crash

Define "electronic warfare".

You see, I am trying to go into detail and deduct exactly what type of "electronic warfare" they used.

They definitely did NOT hack the signal and take control of the drone, that is not possible. As a software and electrical engineer, the only real way I can fathom that they disable the drone is with physical force, because I am pretty certain they build those drones with "electronic warfare" in mind.

Originally posted by yeti101
i think your in serious denial if you think that's not possible

No, I am seriously knowledgeable in this subject and I don't see any possible way to "hack" the drone and control it.

Originally posted by yeti101
Now they have have it they will soon know the precise capability of this drone. Thats not good news at all for the US military

I doubt the US military is losing any sleep over this...

Originally posted by K1771gnorance

I doubt the US military is losing any sleep over this...

I am with you on this statement.

Perhaps they used a jamming capability, such as over loading the signals, much like how we do for IEDs with the warlocks and dukes to counter IED system.

www.hmmwvinscale.com...

Just saying, its that or they emp pulsed it to control the decent.

Originally posted by ADVISOR

Originally posted by K1771gnorance

I doubt the US military is losing any sleep over this...

I am with you on this statement.

Perhaps they used a jamming capability, such as over loading the signals, much like how we do for IEDs with the warlocks and dukes to counter IED system.

www.hmmwvinscale.com...

Just saying, its that or they emp pulsed it to control the decent.

"It was probably sour anyway ..." - said the fox after not being able to reach up and eat the grapes ...

Originally posted by ADVISOR
reply to post by K1771gnorance

 

K1771gnorance

I contend that your theory is very plausible, how ever I must side with Dimitri Dzengalshlevi on this and say they more than likely did hijack it. Because if it lost signal it would have RTB'd aka returned to base, not glided down into a hostile environment where they are usually going to be deployed.

It's impossible to hijack it and fly it. Even if they knew the radio frequency of the main communication, they would have to know exactly how to communicate with the drone. It would be like trying to learn a new language just by listening to a conversation over the phone (impossible to know what they are talking about). They would also have to create an algorithm (software) to replicate said conversation, and they would also have to know how to authenticate the conversation (like a password for every command). They would also have to know many other things I've already mentioned in other posts.


You are basing your theory on two words; "Lost Signal". Those two words can mean multiple things, and they could also be wrong.

It's more plausible that the aircraft's engine malfunctioned, and the aircraft crash landed, and upon impact they "lost signal" with it.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Perhaps they used a jamming capability, such as over loading the signals, much like how we do for IEDs with the warlocks and dukes to counter IED system.

Just saying, its that or they emp pulsed it to control the decent.

What I'm saying is that jamming is so old school, and there is 100 ways to prevent it from happening, and I am sure they built those drones with jammers in mind.

Jamming would actually be equivalent to losing a signal. Jamming would create static noise, and the drone would not be able to recognize any commands and would think it lost signal.

If it was an EMP it would probably fry the electronics and make the drone plummet to the ground and be destroyed on impact.

Just received a link to this article

Plane was hacked

The municipal water pump destroyed last month in Springfield was from a cyber attack
originating in Russia.

This article explains that another cyber attack of unknown origins infiltrated the Air
Force Base where these stealth spy planes are housed. Last week Russia delivered to Iran
a new anti stealth defense technology. Now they prove that this spy drone did not crash
as our government claimed but was hacked, taken over and landed by Iranian cyber defense.

Not only is Iran, Russia and China at this moment analyzing this drones stealth
capabilities and memory but most seriously it gives more evidence that our completely
interdependent and fragile infrastructure could potentially be switched off like a
lightswitch by a now exceedingly adept enemy whom while outnumbering us over 1000 to 1 we
have until now kept at bay via technological superiority.

If this is true, then it will take no time for the Russians/Iranians to reverse engineer this. Could it be that the US intended for this drone to be captured as a reason to go into Iran?

This is pretty scary.

reply to post by K1771gnorance

So what, the enemy got a hold of a low-tech video feed.

which allowed them to steer clear of the targeted areas. Pretty useful if your Taliban.

Define "electronic warfare". You see, I am trying to go into detail and deduct exactly what type of "electronic warfare" they used. They definitely did NOT hack the signal and take control of the drone, that is not possible. As a software and electrical engineer, the only real way I can fathom that they disable the drone is with physical force, because I am pretty certain they build those drones with "electronic warfare" in mind.

you don't know anything about Irans capability but to take it down in such pristine condition suggests EW of some kind.

No, I am seriously knowledgeable in this subject and I don't see any possible way to "hack" the drone and control it.

and your what? the foremost expert on iranian capability and the design spec of this drone? did you design the drone? have you analysed all its systems for any possible weaknesses? do you have one?

I doubt the US military is losing any sleep over this.

If the US isnt bothered about letting other countries see their drones why did they refuse pakistans request to sell them some? here's a clue

so now Iran and any country it wants to share this info with knows the precise capability of this drone. It knows what it can see and what it can't. Very useful information if your looking to avoid detection. Like the taliban for example. or if your trying to hide ongoing nuclear programs. very useful indeed.

reply to post by K1771gnorance


Dude there are many instances where us technology has been proven inferior under certain circumstances on the battlefield. This being one of them. From the evidence presented it appears that the Iranians used EW to take it down. Whether it was hacked remains debatable. There is no evidence in either side that can make any more claims than this. The military certainly is losing sleep over this because it is one of the better drones from Lockheed. They spent millions making this I detectable and invulnerable only to find out that Iran can take them out. We just gave them our next decade of technology on a sliver platter. Unmanned warfare is the next. It hint and they just got our best bird. If this was nothing to worry about why doesn't the military allow anyone to go onto a USAF airbase and buy or inspect one of these if it's not that important