Iran displays captured US drone

reply to post by UnrelentingLurker


Please provide evidence that this drone photo is fake. These are screen grabs directly off of Iranian tv. You said they were fake photos now please prove it. Iranian govt released the drone pix. Now the us govt hasn't released the Osama pix. Pics or it didn't happen. I'm talking official govt released pictures

Didn't China gain access to Lockheed servers a couple of months back?

Isn't this drone built and programmed by Lockheed?

Whoops?

Edit to add:

There are ways to make electronic servos operate without resorting to a software 'hack'. It would never give you full control, but it would be possible to 'jam' the servo in a max, or min position. Sufficient to create a downward spiral if the engines are cut. Which is also possible as they are servo driven as well.

We learned this at work by accident.

Originally posted by autowrench
Agreed. Not only that, but Iran is not ignorant, or stupid. They will back engineer that drone and build their own, or build a counter-measure against them. They will also have the "stealth" technology, which was also back engineered from a downed craft of extraterrestrial design. This tech is not simply paint, it rather involves a "time bubble" that the craft is in from inception. This is what makes it invisible.

I have seen the "technology" first hand and sorry to say, it is paint....

It's not invisible just produces a very small radar return, and in this case it would be very small even without the 45 degrees and paint. The Air Force retired the Stealth fighter and the paint on that was much more sophisticated, but now outdated....

Sorry Gents, but that drone is nothing else but a fake propaganda ploy by the US and Iran to confuse the masses. I will never accept that hunk of junk could fly 50k feet up in the sky ,let alone spy on anything. The joke is on us.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Please provide evidence that this drone photo is fake. These are screen grabs directly off of Iranian tv. You said they were fake photos now please prove it. Iranian govt released the drone pix. Now the us govt hasn't released the Osama pix. Pics or it didn't happen. I'm talking official govt released pictures

On the news last night they said that the military has confirmed it is real....The paint scheme is really not normal, but hey who cares. I would continue to suggest it just belly landed due to a failed engine. Someone else suggested jamming that also effected the GPS, and in that case I would be surprised if it's on board logic was so simple as to just go into a turn and hold, or not have any logic at all and auto kill the engine, or run out of gas....running out of gas is a viable human factor here too.

Originally posted by spy66
If the UAV looses its signal, it is programmed to return to base. To return to base the UAV most likely would need a guidance beacon to inform the flight control in the UAV where to fly.

How do you figure? UAVs don't have INS?

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot
IF the Iranians did somehow manage to take control of the aircraft, they have got to be the worst poker players on the planet.

Think about it, the whole western world (whose militaries are increasingly becoming reliant on unmanned drone technology) are threatening armed interdiction. The Iranians develop a one shot technological intelligence coup of this magnitude and they waste it on an unarmed reconnaissance flight?

Does anyone honestly believe the Iranian intelligence community are so near sighted to tip the drone operators to their hand so that the appropriate countermeasures can be put in place to make sure that it doesn't happen again?

I agree, Hmm Iran has some super technology to take control, AND they have all the software and equipment needed to fly it, AND they have experience pilots... AND...AND

Then they go and show the whole world they have a royal flush before the first bet....ya right
I'm betting they have a pair of deuces and are saying they got a royal flush....I would double their bet in an instant.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Gps jamming is unlikely because aircraft navigate with multiple systems using compasses gyros inertial and gps. Taking out one system would unlikely be catastrophic

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by spy66
If the UAV looses its signal, it is programmed to return to base. To return to base the UAV most likely would need a guidance beacon to inform the flight control in the UAV where to fly.

How do you figure? UAVs don't have INS?

They have INS, but they are not reliable over longer periods of time and distance. INS is very often just a supplement to GPS navigation.

reply to post by Xtrozero


so you think it just malfunctioned , ditched in iran and they recovered it?

this is the only other possible scenario.

personally i think they had the ability to detect & track it. They may have even managed to disable it via some form of EW. Then recovered it.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot
IF the Iranians did somehow manage to take control of the aircraft, they have got to be the worst poker players on the planet.

Think about it, the whole western world (whose militaries are increasingly becoming reliant on unmanned drone technology) are threatening armed interdiction. The Iranians develop a one shot technological intelligence coup of this magnitude and they waste it on an unarmed reconnaissance flight?

Does anyone honestly believe the Iranian intelligence community are so near sighted to tip the drone operators to their hand so that the appropriate countermeasures can be put in place to make sure that it doesn't happen again?

I agree, Hmm Iran has some super technology to take control, AND they have all the software and equipment needed to fly it, AND they have experience pilots... AND...AND

Then they go and show the whole world they have a royal flush before the first bet....ya right
I'm betting they have a pair of deuces and are saying they got a royal flush....I would double their bet in an instant.

You are explaining the name of the game. You are not supposed to know, you are supposed to guess.

Iran will never tell the public how they did this or how it actually happened, Neither will the US.

If neither part displays actual proof of what happened. We will never know. This topic will die without us ever knowing the truth. Just like 911.

Originally posted by cerebralassassins

Pentagon Confirms Iran's Possible Capture Of Missing US Stealth Drone, Fears Reverse Engineering

A $6 million stealth drone went missing this weekend on the Afghanistan-Iranian border, officials in Washington confirmed. Iran claimed to have shot down a drone Saturday.

www.huliq.com...

[snip]

edit on 8-12-2011 by elevatedone because: (no reason given)

Universe forbid Iran have the ability to kill as swiftly and efficiently as the US of 'Merika. After how the military personnel and government officials of "my country" have behaved I wouldn't give two f***s or a s**t if Iranian UAV's started firing missiles all over the US.

Originally posted by willnot

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by willnot
New theory
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you have a different source than an anonymous entry from "The CHANI Project Conspiracy Forum"?

I've traced and studied this this guys posts since July and they all adding up.

Sorry, its nothing more than B.S.

The aviation part I can guarantee and the rest is easy to deduce....

Originally posted by willnot

New Possible Theory On the Downed RQ-170 Drone from an Insider

thechaniproject.com

In the event of a catastrophic power/propulsion or forward momentum failure, the RQ-170's wing design will cause it to "glide" down in a "falling leaf" spiral, resulting in minimal damage. However, there are at least two backup systems to activate the self-destruct sequence. If the video by Iran is indeed the true images of the downed drone, then it would indicate that the chips were fried or interfered with so that it could not self destruct. A Possible EMP beam or a Stuxnet re-engineered"

(visit the link for the full news article)

A catastrophic power/propulsion failure is a specific term and implies something has come unglued. Turbines spin at thousands of revolutions per minute and have a tremendous amount of inertial energy, when they catastrophically fail things get torn to shreds.

etc...

etc,,,, (you get the idea )

A forward momentum failure is called a stall. When the wing stalls it stops flying and falls towards the ground in the same manner as a brick, rock, car, house etc.

A wing requires lift to glide and forward momentum is needed for lift, exactly the same as powered flight.

Pilots have a different name for a "falling leaf spiral", they call it a flat spin and it is generally considered to be very bad.

When an aircraft departs controlled flight for a "falling leaf spiral", aka flat spin, it accelerates towards the ground at approximately 32 ft/s2 untill it reaches an equilibrium with the atmospheric drag at that altitude and temperature called terminal velocity. At lower altitudes and thicker density that speed is often around 200mph.

Impacting the ground and decelerating from 200 mph to nothing in 1/100th of a second imparts over 900 G's (force of gravity). There is nothing about 900 g's of deceleration that results in anything remotely close to "minimal damage" (catastrophic would be an appropriate adjective to use in this instance)

Operational details of sensitive technology is usually classified by most governments ( U.S. included ), divulging anything remotely hinting at this information to strangers on the internet would be a severe violation of op/sec and that person would quickly be arrested and charged with some form of espionage related offense. (it does happens occasionally but 99 9/10ths of the people who can get a security clearance aren't interested in ruining it by bragging on the internet.

Unlike hollywood would have you believe, demolition charges are not par for the course when dealing with sensitive tech. Demolition charges have a long engineering history of demolishing things at the least opportune moments and are shied away from in aviation. A "self destruct" mechanism would be just simply point the nose down and advanced the throttle. Efficient and a lot safer than explosive charges (hint)

The RQ-170 is a true wing with no vertical control surfaces that relies on a flight control computer making hundreds of small adjustments a second to the flight control surfaces (elevons)to keep from swapping ends. If the aircraft landed close to intact, the "chips" were working perfectly well as without the computer(s) functioning properly the plane wouldn't be capable of controlled flight (at all).

Stuxnet is an industrial worm specifically tailored to a certain type of control system. Although I'm sure it could be adapted I am equally sure there would be other code that would be much more efficient for the task. Regardless of the viability, see above.

EMP beam? really? I'll entertain the possibility as soon as somebody can demonstrate a workable theory for the technology and logistics for deployment.

Take it for what you will, I hope this helps clear things up....

Originally posted by tom.farnhill
reply to post by dplum517

 

what do you mean NO LOSS OF LIFE ? these things kill many inocent people , they may be nice and safe for the operators but when they blast some house that it is believed to be occupied by a perceived enemy.
all neighbouring homes and property including the occupants are killed and destroyed

Umm

No there not made to kill innocent people, you guys just love to twist it huh,

I am sorry but there is a particular individual on this thread that has no clue about radio transmissions or avionics. This individual continues to claim the Iranians "hacked" this drone and that this is a major coup for their forces.
First you cant "hack" anything just by intercepting and recording the "proper frequencies". ALL and I mean ALL transmissions are at a specific frequency. That has absolutly nothing to do with WHAT is being transmitted. You seem to be implying this is like a phone man just tapping into a phone line and suddenly one person on the line can be convinced the phone man is the original person they were talking to. BULL CRAP! You dont have a clue.

Then you suggest that this drone will fall out of the sky because the Iranians use big time russkie radio , jam moose and squirrel GPS! WRONG aircraft use Inertial Navigation. Oh and guess what long before the first GPS satillite every was even designed Inertial Navigation systems guided international trans-oceanic flights all over the world. To suggest it is somehow not reliable or inferior is more indications that you have no knowledge of what you speak of. INS is much more expensive and a precision device no doubt. GPS is cheaper and easier to maintain and is thus an improvement but INS is not inferior. Now maybe this drone does not have an INS but since I can purchase one for my RC drone from DIYDrone.com I highly doubt Lockheed failed to include that little bit of kit.

So much being thrown around by people who have no idea about the tech involved. I dont mean to sound like I underestimate the abilities of the Iranian people. I dont I worked for a very brilliant Iranian man for a year. Their country however is another thing entirely. Prior to the '79 revolution the US sold Grumman f-14's to Iran. They did not include the very sophisticated radar system the f-14 had but instead sustituited a lesser capable one. They were beyond that very standard f-14's. The Iranian military no longer flys those f-14's. Not because they are not capable of flying them but because they cannot support them mechanically. They ran out of parts. They could not back-engineer the parts or develop a replacement engine or steal the technology and build their own internally designed fighter from the f-14's technology. No they simply bought Russian and Chinese aircraft.
They purchased cheaper less capable Russian and Chinese fighters rather than build a support network for the better Grumman Tomcats.
The point is these guys just dont have access to the best machine tools in the world and they may have knowledge but they will not be able to replicate it. They will sell these to the Russians or the Chinese.
I am still calling the footage staged and that drone they are showing is either a mock up or the peiced together remains of the crash that they have taped and spray-painted over.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Please provide evidence that this drone photo is fake. These are screen grabs directly off of Iranian tv. You said they were fake photos now please prove it. Iranian govt released the drone pix. Now the us govt hasn't released the Osama pix. Pics or it didn't happen. I'm talking official govt released pictures

The paint scheme is really not normal, but hey who cares.

Actually, you might be surprised....

After years of research and millions of dollars in R@D the Locheed Skunkworks discovered that a specific shade of pastel pink was the most difficult color for the eye to resolve at night.

Rumor has it that the Air Force had a fit and henceforth the fleet was painted matt black. The U.S.A.F. was not about to take delivery of a pink fighter plane.

True story...

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Gps jamming is unlikely because aircraft navigate with multiple systems using compasses gyros inertial and gps. Taking out one system would unlikely be catastrophic

Smaller UAVs only have GPS, BUT have onboard logic in case they lose their GPS. Larger ones have INS too and that cannot be jammed. It all depends on the weight available for redundant systems. Hell even a whisky compass and dead reckoning would work to get it going home and out of the jamming.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

so you think it just malfunctioned , ditched in iran and they recovered it?

this is the only other possible scenario.

personally i think they had the ability to detect & track it. They may have even managed to disable it via some form of EW. Then recovered it.

I'm going with the engine malfunction or ran out of gas. This is about it to limit its distance. I'm not sure about a self-destruct system...all that is extra weight that might not be a viable option . I guess we will see... one down means little, so if Iran has more then we can speculate more too.

Ahh...no manual/self-destruct protocols? China has it in their hands now. Sad thing about this loss is there was technology no one but our military knew about. I can't help but laugh...

Originally posted by spy66
They have INS, but they are not reliable over longer periods of time and distance. INS is very often just a supplement to GPS navigation.

Well they are to a point. We would not get an INS error until our two were off by more than 10 miles, but typically after 10 hours of flying across the ocean we might see 1 or 2 miles of error. Before GPS we had the Navigator update the INS with Celestial navigation. Today, the GPS can do all that rather well, so with the loss of the GPS the INS would be very accurate.