It's time to Relocate Israel.

I may get flamed for this but...

I honestly think, in my own personal opinion, that Israel would be chilling with their neighbors by now if, in the past, they accepted the palestinians as their citizens and make the country largely secular. Imagine, if palestinians and israelis are living under the same flag in harmony, imagine the amount of peace would that bring in the region.

There would be no such talks of Hamas shooting mortars, no gaza air strikes, heck, even president ahmadinejad could be having tea with pm netanyahu by now

Why war when you can have peace.

reply to post by Madhouse


The Israeli's are denying the Palestinian's their statehood - they are NOT their neighbours. Gaza and the West Bank are part of Israel.

The Palestinians want two states - the Jewish regime does not. There is an internationally recognised and accepted solution to this so-called un-solveable dilemma. Go back to the 1967 borders - Hamas and the Arab League would be happy with this, however, the zionists are, in practice (not simply in words) trying to drive the Palestinians out all together and take the whole of Palestine for themselves.

reply to post by christina-66


The point is, using Western International institutions whose sole objective is to prevent war in order to deal with a militant anti-western dictator is moronic. I highly doubt that Israel and the US care to spend months debating in the UN, only to have every single means of peaceable resolutions shot down by Vetoes, disagreement, procrastination, and a general tendency towards inaction.

Just like the Suez Crisis, where Britain and France were strung along by the US and UN through every peaceable method, only for it to amount to nothing but more time for the Militant dictator Colonel Nasser to bolster his military position and strengthen public opinion against the West.

The UN is useful sometimes, but in cases like these it is useless. Its a "sand-trap", that once you go in you will never get out (to quote secretary of state under Eisenhower, John Foster Dulles).

It is barely effective, particularly when time is of the essence.

reply to post by rigel4


Hmm. Thank you - no.
See- this is lame excuse. Relocate Israel and save the world...
What was the most bloodiest conflict this year? Was it connected to Palestinians or Israelis? No.
What was the most bloodiest conflict last year? Was it connected to Palestinians or Israelis? No.
What was the most bloodiest conflict 2 years ago? Was it connected to Palestinians or Israelis? No.
And ctr and ctr and ctr.
So amount of suffering and pain you will "heal" by forcefully relocating unwilling people (who will fight against it and lot will be killed) is not going to influence much the total sum of problems in the world.
And you will not neutralize radicals - since they consider Spain, Caucasus, parts of Greece and lots of other parts as their own. Conflict will move to different countries.
Also you will not stop the growing tension between US/NATO and Russia or China. Relocate every problematic spot? Wait till it gets to your backyard. It soon will if your suggestion goes through.

Double post.

reply to post by christina-66


Heh, that's what I'm saying man, it could've been waaaaaaay better if the both parties are willing to compromise. Instead of pushing the palestinians away, why not welcome them? For the palestinians, no doubt majority would be jewish, but if all's treated as equals & no oppression involved with multi-religious harmony strongly emphasized, why not?

I guess we peace-lovers can only dream of such things.

I'm glad I live in a country where all the muslims, christians, buddhists, jews, etc live in peace. I have to say it was one helluva smart choice what the early government did with all of us in this country to ensure we all live in harmony.

reply to post by ClydeFrog42


It is the passive (and largely uneducated on the subject matter] US population that allows this situation to be perpetuated. The US ends it's support and it would all stop in a heartbeat.

This is the best drama about the history of the founding of the Israeli state and it's current state I have seen. When you have time I'd recommend taking the time to view it.

The Promise - Channel 4

reply to post by Madhouse


I think everyone would wish that the zionist state of Israel would accept the attitude you propose - but they do not - and that IS the problem. The Jews want a state with a Jewish identity - they don't even permit foreign labourers they've had to import for menial work due to their annexing of the Palestinians, to have children for that reason.

Really I'd recommend a watch of the link I posted 'The Promise' in my response above - it will give you a good overall grounding on the history of the matter and allow you to draw more informed conclusions about the current state of affairs.

The Israeli's are denying the Palestinian's their statehood - they are NOT their neighbours. Gaza and the West Bank are part of Israel. The Palestinians want two states - the Jewish regime does not. There is an internationally recognised and accepted solution to this so-called un-solveable dilemma. Go back to the 1967 borders - Hamas and the Arab League would be happy with this, however, the zionists are, in practice (not simply in words) trying to drive the Palestinians out all together and take the whole of Palestine for themselves.

Yeah. Exactly like you say.
I mean - Gaza in which Hamas rules for years and years and where no Jew remains (and there were Jews prior to 1948) is part of Israel. Of course.
West bank - under Fatah control and with scores of foreign embassies - is a part of Israel. Sure.
Hamas recognizes Israel... Tell them that,they do not know it.

Hamas' Deputy Foreign Minister Ghazi Hamad says the major Palestinian faction will never recognize Israel, despite its recent unity deal with the Palestinian Authority.

www.presstv.ir...
When Palestinians had more land under their own control then now? Never. They were always under someones control - be it crusaders, Egyptians, Turks ,British. Driving Palestinians out. Yeah, right. When there were more Palestinians living inside territory that is now Israel and Palestine? Never.
Regime of ignorance should worry you.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


250,000 human beings have died in the Lebanon civil war since the 1970's. And yet, how many people know about it?? We hear nothing or very little about it, because the mainstream media hyper focuses, like a culture with OCD, om Israel-Palestine.

It is sickening that people don't bother asking "why".. You know why? Because the elite are Jew-haters. Especially the "Jewish" (JINO jew-in-name-only) elite, the kissingers, the rothschilds, the Sabbatean gnostic Jews who hate Judaism, hates its morality, hate its social program - the Torah.

You can't separate the past from the present. The phenomenon of Jew hatred is not for different reasons then it was 2200 years ago when Antiochus forbade the Jews from practicing circumcision, keeping sabbath and studying Torah. It's ALWAYS - ALWAYS - ALWAYS been theological, its always been a matter of theology. Theology forms the social. The socio-political is merely the outer covering of the theological-metaphysical. Intellectual dwarfs don't get that, because they're ignorant, and they don't care to make themselves aware of the root of the matter. The Nazis, the Communists, didn't oppress the Jews for different reasons. As Percy Shelly famous said "We are all Greeks". Hitler, Stalin, find their spiritual fore bearers in Hadrian, Titus, Antiochus, and Pharoah. The same morality, the same religious outlook on life, animates them all.

Hence, the worlds media WON'T let this issue die down. Sudan could kill every person in that country, and the world would hardly pay attention, because it isn't POLITICALLY RELEVANT. And what defines political relevance? Ask Theosophy, the UN, and those other types. Political relevance is based on a spiritual-theological agenda. The world is going in a certain direction, guided by hands behind the scenes, and the Jews, their Torah, stands in the way.

Of course, today, it seems like nothing. Why are the Jews important? They are slaves! They have been indigent peasants living under the thumb of aristocrats for 2000 years... But, before that, before today, during the heyday of Israels existence, the Hebrew revolution, the social program incarnate in the Hebrew state, Israel, posed a major threat and obstacle to the pagan powers of the world.

They haven't forgotten. The aristocracy, the noble houses, go back that far, and it is THEY who keep alive the spiritual agendas of the past, into the present.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli
reply to post by rigel4

 

Ethnic cleansing doesn't sound like a great idea. You're talking about forcibly relocating almost eight million people, expropriating most of their property and probably rendering them effectively stateless in the process. A lot of families have lived there for generations, before anyone even thought of Zionism, and you're advocating giving their property "back" to people who don't and have never owned it. All as some sort of final solution to a problem that isn't even Israel's fault.

I take back what I said on the ancient nuclear war thread. All of this has happened before.

edit on 27-11-2011 by FurvusRexCaeli because: redundundant

And what do you suppose happened to the people who were living in what we now call Israel prior to 1947?

Oh that's right... they were forcible relocated, expropriating most of their property and it did render them Stateless.

That being said, I do not think relocating Israel is a possibility now. What we have done in the Middle East is what man has done since the beginning of time. We made the situation worse. Once upon a time, one could argue the validity of the Israel being Land given to them by God. Now that we got involved and gave the land to the Jews, we have effectively created a situation where both parties can claim a right to the land.

As a very simplistic example, let us use a foreclosed home. The Bank moves out one Family after foreclosure and a new Family moves in. Then it comes to light that the Bank did not actually own the home, and therefor could not legally evict the previous Family. So who owns the home?

Technically either Family can make a claim for the home. The first Family legally should not have been evicted, but now they are out, and there is always a possibility that the lean holding bank will be found and will foreclose as well. The second Family is in there now, but they did pay for the home and there is no future claim at this time to foreclose because they are up to date. So effectively you can argue for either side. Now had the Bank crossed their T's and dotted their I's from the start, and made sure they actually owned the Property, the whole situation could have been avoided.

My view of Israel is much the same. People say that God gave the land to the Jews, therefor Israel has the right to the land and the Palestinians do not, but if that were actually true, how is it that the British gave the land to the Jews in in 1947? How can the British give away land that God supposedly owns?

The whole issue makes no sense, but the involvement of other Countries has made a bad situation worse. I personally say the whole world should stay out of it and you let that region decide for itself. There should be no worry about "wiping Israel off the face of the earth" cause if there really is a Divine plan, God's plan, then that would not be allowed to happen until God allows it. How are you supposed to have a Divine plan if just anyone can come along and screw it up? That is not much of a Divine plan now is it?

If Religion can be used to claim ownership of the Land, then Religion should also be used when defending the position of ownership. So if this land was truly given to the Jews by God and it is God's will that they be there now, then nothing should be able to change that. God would surely defend Israel against her enemies right?

reply to post by rigel4


Obviously this guy created this stupid post to get a reaction and gain ATS points. Why bother even answering him…

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


UN Vote on Palestinian Statehood Put Off Due to Lack of Support - The Guardian Nov 2011

Sorry - what were you saying? Are you referring to the annexed, economically restricted, internationally blockaded Gaza Strip? I do hope not.

1.2 million people on an area of land that equates to roughly 25 miles by 6 miles? Hmm....

reply to post by christina-66

Sorry - what were you saying? Are you referring to the annexed, economically restricted, internationally blockaded Gaza Strip? I do hope not.

Is it not under Hamas control? Annexed?? Annexed by whom - you are just making this up. Economically restricted - yes. Blockaded - yes. My guess is that certain rockets have something to do with it.
But it is still under Hamas control. Lying about annexation will not change the fact.

reply to post by MrWendal

My view of Israel is much the same. People say that God gave the land to the Jews, therefor Israel has the right to the land and the Palestinians do not, but if that were actually true, how is it that the British gave the land to the Jews in in 1947? How can the British give away land that God supposedly owns?

The answer is simple - Balfour was God

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


It's under Hamas control as long as the Israeli's don't decide to arrest their elected representatives and insofar as the Israeli's do not permit them to export to the world and thus dominate them economically....and restrict the goods that can be brought in....as long as they're made in Israel.

Yeah....I suppose Hamas does kind of control the Gaza strip....but what exactly?

The United States is willing to risk losing its big cities to pry Taiwan from China.


There is very very little risk in keeping Israel. The region has no real military or modern weapons. Israel can defend itself from everyone. Which they intend on doing.

Israel is the smallest country to ever defeat the US Navy. USS Liberty "incident".

If they can defeat the United States......they can keep ahold of the land they call Israel.

reply to post by Pervius


LOL....I'd hardly call the sinking of one ship the 'defeat of the US Navy'

reply to post by christina-66

It's under Hamas control as long as the Israeli's don't decide to arrest their elected representatives and insofar as the Israeli's do not permit them to export to the world and thus dominate them economically....and restrict the goods that can be brought in....as long as they're made in Israel. Yeah....I suppose Hamas does kind of control the Gaza strip....but what exactly?

Listen, assuming things is not the best way to see the world. Restricting goods as long as they made in Israel??? From the same fact book as annexed Gaza, i guess.
And again - you ignore the historical fact that Palestinians never ever ever ever had even "kind of control" over any area in Palestine. Except of current times ,of course. Courtesy of evil Israeli regime. And if Hamas would not choose armed conflict - there would be no blockade or restrictions. West bank is in economical boom,for example.
By the way, Hamas controls Gaza completely. But since it is known fact, it is probably not worth to be mentioned.

reply to post by Pervius


The truth is that Israel could not continue with its aggression without the partnership of the US....and the passivity of the US population. As soon as there is a mass consensus against Israel's treatment of the Palestinian population and Israel is seen as the pariah state it is, the abuse will stop. Just like that. That's how Sth Africa was dealt with.