It's time to Relocate Israel.

LOL a valuable ally is it? Can you define the term ally? or Alliance? Here Ill do it for you. "Combine or unite a resource or commodity with (another) for mutual benefit." Can you tell me what the American people get out of this mutual benefit? Because all I see is money taken out of my paycheck every month for Israel. Where is my mutual benefit? What does Israel do for me?

No, whether the tax dollars should goes to Israel is merely an opinion to the American people including myself but vast majority of Americans see Israel as a valuable ally in the middle east.

Originally posted by Paulioetc15

LOL a valuable ally is it? Can you define the term ally? or Alliance? Here Ill do it for you. "Combine or unite a resource or commodity with (another) for mutual benefit." Can you tell me what the American people get out of this mutual benefit? Because all I see is money taken out of my paycheck every month for Israel. Where is my mutual benefit? What does Israel do for me?

No, whether the tax dollars should goes to Israel is merely an opinion to the American people including myself but vast majority of Americans see Israel as a valuable ally in the middle east.

edit on 28-11-2011 by Paulioetc15 because: (no reason given)

BUT what do they do for us? Afterall the American people ARE their Government. What does this alliance give to us? Is it an alliance or are they are parasite... by definition of course? What makes them such a VALUABLE ally?

reply to post by e11888

BUT what do they do for us? Afterall the American people ARE their Government. What does this alliance give to us? Is it an alliance or are they are parasite... by definition of course? What makes them such a VALUABLE ally?

The same countries we have been giving to Japan and Europe. Do the math.

Originally posted by Paulioetc15
reply to post by e11888

 

BUT what do they do for us? Afterall the American people ARE their Government. What does this alliance give to us? Is it an alliance or are they are parasite... by definition of course? What makes them such a VALUABLE ally?

The same countries we have been giving to Japan and Europe. Do the math.

Yes I did the math and I know that my money is going out the window to fund countries like China and Isreal while the American people are being thrown out of their homes. Yes thats my problem. So explain to me why my paycheck goes to Israel. Explain to me why my children go off to fight Israel's war? What do I get in return? Where is this mutual benefit that is defined by the term alliance?

THIS IS MY PROBLEM! Nobody knows why we support Israel but everyone is so quick to rush in and support them!

Originally posted by e11888
BUT what do they do for us? Afterall the American people ARE their Government. What does this alliance give to us? Is it an alliance or are they are parasite... by definition of course? What makes them such a VALUABLE ally?

edit on 28-11-2011 by e11888 because: (no reason given)

Since the early 20th century, the Middle East has been an area where a certain amount of influence is necessary. Not only for the massive Arab and Muslim populations there, but for the Suez Canal, for oil deposits and operations in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon... basically everywhere.

First Britain, then to an extent Russia, and now NATO & the USA, have all been pre-occupied with a desire to control the invaluable assets in the middle east.

Having a militarily and politically strong ally, such as Israel, in the region is beneficial to the USA for many reasons, some of them completely obvious. Israel is like a base, a launching pad for the US into the Middle East. Being that we are physically so far removed from the region, yet economically completely invested there, it is pretty obvious that we must necessarily protect our interests there.

Having Israel at our beck-and-call guarantees against a certain level of volatility, because Israel has proven that they are capable of maintaining there interests and ours (particularly with our money at their disposal.)

So, you could argue that the Tax dollars you think are wasted on Israel in fact guarantee the security of the OTHER tax dollars that end up invested in the rest of the Middle East.

As i have stated before, there are a lot of things to consider when analyzing international relations. It helps to think about it logically.

Edit: Foreign aid is hardly ever "wasted". There is a very good reason for the country who has been the creditor to the entire planet for the past 70 years to maintain its interests in those areas.[

reply to post by eyespying


It's this sort of ignorance that worries me..

Jews began immigrating to Israel in the late 1800's. Already, Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias, Hebron, had large Jewish populations.

By the time the holocaust came around, Israel already had some 50,000 Jews living there. The Jewish state wasn't some over night decision of the Americans to 'deal with the Jews'. It was thought up many years earlier, by Theodor Herzl, for the same problems that the holocaust crystallized 60 years later.

And israel isn't just 'some country in the middle east'. There wasn't a day in the jews 2000 year exile that he didn't turn to Jerusalem in prayer.

They should relocate somewhere in South America.

reply to post by ClydeFrog42


Im not even sure why we even need to be in the middle east for these resources to begin with. The United States has its own oil that can be drilled. I also dont understand why you wouldnt simply ally yourself with one of these nations instead of running to Israel to join their war against the very nations you want the resource from. Hi Im John I would like some Ice cream. I have money you have Ice cream. Lets make a deal. Instead we say Hi Im John I want Pauls Ice cream so lets team up and bomb the crap out of Paul's Ice cream stand and take all his Ice cream. For what reason? Theres obviously a reason why the logical thing to do wasnt done.

Originally posted by Militarywarfare
They should relocate somewhere in South America.

Oh, South America, huh?

Perhaps Bariloche, Argentina that Nazi hangout...I'm sure they have the "gas showers" ready for the jews arrival:

www.telegraph.co.uk...

The only way you "Move Israel" is "Round up the jews".

reply to post by e11888


Exactly, you dont know. It seems like you dont want to know either, and that your set on condemning Israel no matter what, which indicates some rather serious 'latent' prejudice.

The Middle East in incredibly important, whether you know it or not. And Americas interests there are massive to the point of unmeasurable. Its not a simple matter of "switching allies" or "turning to isolationism". History has proven again and again that isolationism doesn't work.

Your analogy is senseless, and is again an unbelievably shallow perspective on an incredibly complex situation.

You asked why Israel is an important ally, and i tried to explain it, so you fired back with "well thats dumb, i have a better solution".

If you don't want the answer to these questions, why bother? If your dead set against Israel, and set on arguing with people who dont unequivocally condemned Israel, then your just trolling anyways.

There is a solid argument for being allied with Israel, whether you accept it or not. Things are not nearly as simple as you seem to think.

The West is beyond Iranian Oil. Its valuable, but not exactly necessary. If you ask me, the reason for war against Iran is to remove a regime that is hostile to the West, that we have been unable to remove by coercion. That has been the policy since the Abadan Crisis, when the Anglo-Iranian oil operation was Nationalized my Mossadeq. Except in that case, coercion worked, and the United States took over control of the oil operations.

In the current case, coercion has failed, so military intervention is one of the only alternatives left on the table. The West doesn't want to pull out of the middle east, because its too important (and an area of unparalleled volatility, like the Balkans). I fully support Western ambitions in the middle east, because i see it as another potential theatre of war from which total, all encompassing war might once again break out.

So, while its easy to say "the west should leave the middle east alone", its basically moronic. We are well beyond the point of "leaving the middle east alone", by at least a few thousand years.

reply to post by rigel4


There is no way the Israeli people will leave their ancient lands. For this reason, the idea will never work. Furthermore, Israel continues to build new settle,ends in Palestinian territory, making the level of aggression go up.
You are right about children though, children are taught that "sharing is caring" and to "do unto others as you would have done to you". If Israel stopped mimicking our warmongering and invasive international policies and started practicing these two principles, they might see a change in the state of things.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by ClydeFrog42

Having Israel at our beck-and-call guarantees against a certain level of volatility, because Israel has proven that they are capable of maintaining there interests and ours (particularly with our money at their disposal.)

You mean Israel is a state as prepared to violate international law as the US is? What gives the US the right to demand control of other nation states' natural assets anyway? Do you think it would be alright if Canada or Mexico took the same stance re the US's natural resources?

Might is right? Is this really the kind of world we want to live in? Israel may claim it acts defensively but that is just a lie.



American weapons sales to Israel are illegal. Weapons sales are only permitted for defensive purposes - whereas Israel uses this weaponry offensively against the Palestinian population. But hey - what's breaching international law matter when it serves your own selfish ends...

The 'aid' funded by U.S tax dollars (in excess of $1 billion annually) goes to organisations like The Jewish National Fund which is committed BY LAW in Israel to work ONLY for the benefit of people of Jewish race, religion and origin. This organisation controls 90% of the land in Israel and has tax free status.

Originally posted by GabeNyc
reply to post by rigel4

 

There is no way the Israeli people will leave their ancient lands. For this reason, the idea will never work. Furthermore, Israel continues to build new settle,ends in Palestinian territory, making the level of aggression go up.
You are right about children though, children are taught that "sharing is caring" and to "do unto others as you would have done to you". If Israel stopped mimicking our warmongering and invasive international policies and started practicing these two principles, they might see a change in the state of things.

Ach....the zionists were happy to check out a few other areas prior to setting their sites on Palestine. Libya for one - where until 1945 there was a population of 70,000 Jews who had been settled there since the days of the Romans. The Libyan's were agreeable to give the land round about Sirte as long as Jewish immigration was restricted to Jews from the former Ottoman Empire. At the time Libya had a population of just 1 million people at, 70,000 of whom were Jews and another 100,000 were Italians. There was genuine concern from the Libyan's that global Jewish immigration would displace the local population.....so the zionists moved their target.

reply to post by christina-66


The UN, NATO, the EU, and indeed all international institutions have basically been tools of American economic imperialism since their time of conception.

the UNs "international laws" are basically last-resort for countries who have failed to accomplish peace by their own, traditional means.

So as far as the US "breaking international law", they basically own international laws. International institutions are a facade whose purpose is to prevent war at all costs, which is basically impossible. You think that the United States and Israel are the only ones violating UN charters?

Its the wild west, and the sheriff doesn't have a gun. If you expect everyone to play by some arbitrary rules, then your setting yourself up for severe disappointment.

Again, its much more complex then "the US and Israel breaking international law". Of course, I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't observe international law... but the US, and indeed the entire planet, has interests in the Middle East that are far more important then a few empty lines in a UN charter.

If The US and Israel are the only ones who should be held to the standards of "international law", then the laws are trivial anyways and only serve to bolster our adversaries.

Besides, the US doesn't "demand" anyones resources. I think your forgetting that US investment is the driving force behind basically all oil operations in the middle east. Not to mention that the US has friends in the region that are more then willing to trade economic and military support for oil.

The problem with Iran is that it actively works to disrupt western interests in the region, which doesn't sit well with America. As far as how much right they have to intervene for the sake of their own interests? The US has more right then anyone.

reply to post by ClydeFrog42

Again, its much more complex then "the US and Israel breaking international law". Of course, I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't observe international law... but the US, and indeed the entire planet, has interests in the Middle East that are far more important then a few empty lines in a UN charter.

You aren't suggesting we break International law - but what the hey they do it anyway - so may as well let them get on with it. Is that what you're saying?

So the rest of the world's interests in the Middle East justifies supporting oppressive regimes like Saudi Arabia which makes Iran look like a paragon of virtue when it comes to human rights. Is that what you're saying too?

Tell me please - I'm all ears (or eyes as the case may be)....how is it 'much more complex' than this?

reply to post by ClydeFrog42


So instead of talking to these nations like human beings we demand they change their entire Government to more suit our needs for their oil. Thats makes sense. How do you think the US would feel if China came over and said that since we cant pay our debts we demand you change your entire style of Government. That obviously wouldnt work out too well would it? But because these are brown people that live in mudd huts its okay to treat them like animals?

Nobody here is trying to fight with you man but you insist on picking fights with everyone in this thread that disagrees with your opinion of a world run Israeli state. As I said before I honestly dont care what happens with Israel as long as my tax dollars dont go towards funding it. We need to fix our own problems before we run around playing world police or, for that matter, world charity.

Im done responding to this thread because it seems that a select few people here refuse to let anyone speak out against their own personal opinion without ganging up on them or bringing up Hitler and genocide that has nothing to do with this conversation.

I agree 100%. Israel's past ( as in biblical writings) proves Israel has zero allies. They will eradicate all who oppose or hinder. They eradicated an ally of 40 years, Every man, woman & child. ( Read the book of fairy tales) it tells the story.

Balfour Declaration. Prior to WW3 read up on it. Berlin Germany, prior to WW2 jews owned and controlled allmost 95% of banking and credit. They had a financial stranglehold on Germany.

Prior to WW2 Britian held the contract to buy all the Saudi oil. America did not have it. When Germany started the bombing of Britian, America did not enter war. Instead America says to Britian, Give us the rights to the oil in Saudi Arabia and we'll get involved.

America joined the war, and the war was won. Within six months of the ending of the war, the rights to the Saudi oil became Americas, and we have bought it ever since. I would suppose if Britian said no, they would be driving VW's about right now.

Israel looks at all the rest of the peoples on the planet as Goyim, slaves to serve them. Prior to Israel becoming a state, America had no enemies in the MIddle East. Now we have no friends. 103 trillion dollars of my tax money goes to a people that could care less if I existed.

That book of fairy tales is going to end up killing all of us. Saying that God gave Israel the land and that the book of fairy tales say's it so is ridiculous.. When God shows up and hands Israel the deed to the land, then and only then will I see Israel and the Jews as Gods chosen people. Until then Israel IMHO is just a blight on the middle east and a war mongering people's who simply want the Goyim blood to spill and not the Jewish blood.

Move them or eradicate them either will work, actually that want work, if we move them to say Alaska, they would then try to sell the rest of the world snow, as they would say, God gave it to us...And for all of you who will scream at me for being anti-semitic, If not likeing the fact that Israel, takes land, ignores the U.N., deprive's a people of the basic needs to live ( Paleistine) and screams war all the damn time, yea, I'm anti-semetic..

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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by eyespying

 

The Jewish state wasn't some over night decision of the Americans to 'deal with the Jews'.

I didn't say it was 'just' the Americans.