The Bible has been changed ( rewritten )

Originally posted by tetra50
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

That you assess he is both (or either) particle and wave is entirely personal, without any quoted reference or supposed inference that this physics was ever applied or referred to in the bible. Perhaps he is neither, or one but not the other. No matter, I do not see physics, particle, quantum or mechanical illuminated in the work we are discussing or it's interpretation. At the least, without referencing the work's allusion to this science, I think you are making a huge jump here, for it is quite likely that particle and wave exist without the judgements that work sought to incorporate and explain. Perhaps particle and wave exist, but he occupies them, to control their nature.....

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Einstein: Time, Space, Matter and Energy

God: Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Light / Wave

Physics: Wave Particle Duality

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word (Wave), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Physics: Wave Function Collapse

God: Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Consciousness creates matter, not the other way around. When the observer makes a choice to collapse the indeterminate wave of infinity, the state of matter is changed. This must be rewound to the first changed state. Did matter change its own state? No, physics proves that consciousness is necessary for this with the double slit experiment and several other theories that are demonstrated as validly accepted science. Matter does not originate consciousness. This is evidence we can prove.

Physics: As stated by Paul Dirac's relativistic quantum mechanical wave equation, our universe is parallel to another universe in opposite. Our matter is anti-matter to this mirrored universe. The event horizon between these two universes represents the projection point of both.

God: John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

2 Peter 3:12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

Hebrews 3

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

1 Corinthians 15:
50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

The spirit hovered over the waters. The darkness was divided from the light. These words in Genesis are just what we would expect as the universe cooled and the high state of order and low entropy begins to take shape for a new universe.

Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

How can physics demonstrate six days as 15 billion years?

LINK

If you are ready to throw up your hands, remember that the letter Hey added to Abram's name means, "I have beheld a great work in faith." God honored Abram by making him a new creation. He was change to Abraham. God loves you.

It's the golden spyral.

Originally posted by tetra50
Of all that I have read here, I have provided at least one concrete quote from a king James version itself that clearly states one of the books is in questions as it was destroyed and later recreated. This is a source from The Book itself, allowing that what is written is a recreation, a revision. I only draw attention to it because the OP began this looking for such Proof, and all that has followed since. His answer to me was he had to admit he wasn't educated enough to answer to it's validity, after he demanded such, and wanted to see what others made of it. I mean no disrespect to any respondents.....really, I am writing this for the OP.....
No one has refuted, elucidated or illuminated it, randy. And what I would like to say to you, is, if you weren't educated enough to accept or repudiate what you challenged did not exist, then why state an absolute as you did in your original OP?

edit on 27-11-2011 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)

Oh and btw, buried somewhere in these heated responses, I also provided two other links to revisions, publicly announced since the 1800s, and documented to the whole text.

Perhaps your whole point was there is no word of God. But only the word of other men, as to what he said

edit on 27-11-2011 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)

How about this then ?
God created the universe but you seem to believe that he can't control what his word is all about ? Or what goes in or comes out ? I disagree with that. No matter if even I lived my whole life in seclusion with no education at all.
Scripture replaced scripture the way I see it. Fail.

Originally posted by old_god
reply to post by randyvs

 

I don't have a problem with the original Gospel, I have a problem with the books that came after it, and the many interpretations which leads to a single conclusion:

The (current) bible is the word of man.

Why? Because we humans changed the original message to fit our needs and desires, to manipulate and castrate the masses.

Before I chose my religion, I was searching and I found this guy put the argument across really well, as to what was wrong with the current bible (he does a good job of showing the original Gospel in it's true light, the word of god):

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There were four gospels. Which do you regard as the original?

Also the Gospels come after an original group of books (which we call the old testament) which were written earlier, some thousands of years earlier.

Wouldn't they be more original than the gospels?

Perhaps you should give the Bible a read?

reply to post by randyvs

Fail? And you are your own God, for I do not seek to judge you, only to call in question what you cannot answer but pose as a question. Yes, you are better than me. I agree. Smarter, and more well read. Next time, open and read the book you are seeking confirmation of.
For you: PASS

If the Holy Spirit and Jesus is real then the same message will end up being the winner here, it is what brings it together the spirit of God combines it.

There are said to be some new ancient Gospels found made in lead form yet to be opened the oldest documents yet.

Bible Truth

Bible Truth - Why is this Book any Different than the Others?
Is there such a thing as "Bible Truth?" Why should we trust this "holy book" any more than any other spiritual, religious or philosophical treatise? How can we be sure that the Bible we read today is the same collection of 66 books that were originally written in ancient times?

Bible Truth - The Reliability of the Ancient Manuscripts
Bible truth? Let's take a look! The Bible is unquestionably the world's all-time bestseller with an estimated 2 billion copies in print. The Bible was completed in its entirety nearly 2,000 years ago and stands today as the best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, with over 24,000 ancient New Testament manuscripts discovered so far (compare this with the second best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, Homer's Iliad, with only 643 preserved manuscripts discovered thus far). The printing press wasn't invented until the 1450's, but we have hand-written copies of the Old Testament dating back to the 200's BC. Remarkably, these ancient manuscripts are nearly identical to the Bible we read today.

As far as the New Testament, the Bodmer Papyrus II contains most of the Gospel of John and dates from around 150-200 AD. The Chester Beatty Papyri contains major portions of the New Testament and dates back to about 200 AD. The Codex Vaticanus, the oldest complete New Testament manuscript we've discovered so far, dates from 325-350 AD. The apostle John, who lived with Jesus and learned from Jesus, penned five New Testament books and died in 100 AD. We have fragments of John's Gospel that date from 110-130 AD, within 30 years of his death. When compared to other ancient works such as Plato, Homer or Tacitus, that short time period between the original and the most recent copy is dramatic!

Clement of Rome was martyred in 100 AD. In his writings, he quoted from Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, 1 Corinthians, 1 Peter, Hebrews, and Titus. Clement's quotes totally correspond with the Bible we read today. In fact, even if we lost all of the 5,300 early Greek manuscripts, all of the 10,000 Latin vulgates, and all of the 9,300 other ancient manuscripts, we would be able to reconstruct all but 11 verses of the New Testament from the writings of the early Church leaders who quoted from them extensively. We have over 36,000 preserved quotes from the New Testament. In a nutshell, the Bible stands today as the best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, and it's overall reliability is without question!
Text

www.allabouttruth.org...

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Throw up my hands? Why you have stated here what I hope and pray to be my salvation, and yours and all who are here with us. Why would I throw up my hands. I do not care which of us is righter or smarter, but that some of us have cared to actually read and equated and "discerned," so I love what you have provided, and take comfort in it. What I hope is that someone will see that we live in times where darkness and light have been combined, to the detriment of both, and science has been skewed to go along with this and keep the obfuscation ongoing so that we will be made more and more only concerned with greater and lesser, righter and wronger (forgive bastardization of english), so that my children and yours are both allowed to live and prosper, and not judged and placed at war with each other in a way that only darkness can win. And yes, god does love me, as he/she loves even those who proceed with arrogance and seek to prove themselves greater.

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by seridium
The bible was the tv of the past its called predicitive programming just like our everyday tv programs and movies all predictive programming instill thoughts and over time walla we have been controlled !

I think its viola instead of walla walla. Just say'in. This is just more propaganda that isn't supported.

it’s Voila

Interesting reading
Translation Errors and
Forgeries in the Bible
www.religioustolerance.org...


and the difference between bethulah and almah
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by randyvs


The Bible was written by opportunists consisting of old wives tales and lore. Just as every other culture before and after. In those days people needed something to entertain themselves with. The Kings of those times took the opportunity to establish a society as they see fit. So said stories were implemented with a twist. The same method is widely used today but used with technology instead of paper and scrolls. The populace is conditioned to have a core of beliefs that are used to manipulate them with. Faith is used today to wage wars for Oil and Power. Just as it was during the crusades and the Empires invading other nations before.

If you really think an Omnipotent being was so arrogant and needy of attention for worship to stroke it's ego then i have to laugh. I seriously doubt a Omnipotent being is a Narcissist and a Control freak. Faith blinds people, divides people and keeps them in check. With this very book you no longer have to question your mortality, you get to live forever and are forgiven right? Yes an Omnipotent GOD, Zeus , Allah ect wants you to follow his criteria of rules yet has a different version with all the faiths. The whole "My god is right and yours is wrong" is comical.

notice i have his in bold for a reason

I will say i believe events in the Bible did happen, if there was a Jesus or there was never such a man I will never know. But his teachings and his message i find to be a thing of common sense. Morally correct as to be human so it is the Message i practice hence i call myself a Agnostic Christian but i do not need a book written by mortals interpretation and mortals opinions to mediate with my higher power. I do not need to dress up and go to a building to reach my creator. I do not need to hear Pastor ramble for 2 hours what he thinks god would think blah blah. For the creator is not a man with set rules for nature is cruel and unforgiving. A book by the all mighty? That's a joke. A Book written by authors well that is a reality.

This Bible is no more the word of the creator imo then the Bernstien Bears or Cat in the Hat. It belongs in the children's book section with other childrens stories and childish thinking. Just silliness and we need to put this old ancient way of thinking behind us before we doom ourselves further and fall in to all the traps set up for us by these Rulers that wrote it.





Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." — Napoleon Bonaparte. "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." — Napoleon ...

reply to post by SuperiorEd


That's all fine and dandy, but, we are talking about the Bible here, not religion. Please stay on topic and answer my post in relation to the thread. If you want to discuss religion start another thread.

Originally posted by tetra50
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Along those lines, I would ask whom you interpret as the son of man, and the difference and what this means?

My son is a son of man. Mortal.

Look at it from nature. The sun and the moon come into union for life on earth. Man and woman come into union (from love) to make a son or daughter. The sperm and the egg. Right and left. Up and down. It's all the same.

The baby develops in the womb and then finds union again. The baby also develops in the womb of the earth after birth. Look at the body as the next placenta. The earth is our caretaker as we are planted in the garden. We have an unrefined soul, which is paired with the spirit of God. Our Nous develops the soul and is guided by the spirit. The soul gains union with the spirit if love unites. From here, the spirit transcends by bearing fruit.


Galatians 5:22-23
New International Version (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Why was the law necessary?

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Back to your question.

Light is both a particle and a wave. God uses light as the primary means to enlighten us.

This is a union. The light is paired with information and consciousness.

God is all three. He is Eternal and Infinity that does not change. He simply is.

The Son is Immortal (Cosmos) and is in movement of unchanging cycles. Also conscious.

These are the first union to create life in the universe form one thing. Consciousness. We are not privileged to know what the Eternal is. Why?

Light reflects on its opposite in matter. Light is in frequencies. God has no opposite in the material world, thus, he is hidden. YET, he is everywhere. Light is both a particle and a wave that is conscious. Derac's equation shows the proof. Evidence aplenty.

Final answer:

God Son
Son---> Sons of men. Union repeats.
All life is a union of essence to form from information.

"Remember this last bit of the story. The oak tree is enfolded into the acorn. If it gains union with the soil around it, it unfolds by design to become the mighty oak. At our essence, we are the information of our designer. We express this body by this essence to form. The essence can be saved or lost. As you look out across the ocean of reality, realize that you are only seeing the surface and the waves. You must dive deep to see what is hidden in the depths."

LINK

I admire your faith but if you challenge the authenticity of your belief to a wider audience, you will invite the undesired which includes the slander of faith. Faith is sacred and personal it hurts me reading some of the replies you provoked.

I believe that the OP's main point is that he does not believe an omnipotent Creator would allow a message that he intended to convey to be corrupted. I don't think the presence or absence of evidence showing changes to the Bible is even all that relevant to his argument. Surely it is contradictory for an omnipotent being to fail in a task that He set out to perform, but only if we assume that we understand his motivations. God would have known if man would corrupt and distort his messages, so there could only be so many possibilities:

1. God knew man would change the Bible and has intervened accordingly in order to preserve it, producing an accurate English version of the Bible today. (divine intervention)

OR

1a. God knew man would change the Bible and intended for man to do so, intervening in order to implement the changes He desired. (divine intervention)

2. God knew man would change the Bible, but He allowed man to do so. (mysterious ways)

3. God did not have to do anything, because the Bible is virtually unchanged from its original form.


Personally, I must admit that the available documentation regarding both the Bible and the practice of theology during the Classical period, points to possibility #3 being completely unsupported by the evidence. However, if possibility #1 were correct, that evidence would be misleading. We are aware of the "changes" to the Bible in the forms of translations, Councils, added and omitted selections, etc- but if possibility #1 were true, none of these events would have had any significant impact on the content of the Bible, even if the people involved intended to do so. They were allowed to exercise their free will and -try- to change the Bible, but divine intervention prevented their efforts from being fruitful. To assume they were successful is to assume the validity of #2 (provided you believe in the Christian God).

Another argument I wish to make is that, as per (1a), God may have intended for changes to be made to the Bible. Cultures and methods of understanding change, and it would not be inconsistent or "weak" of God to modify his message for the ears of his audience. It shows only our own susceptibility to change, not any failure on God's part. In this sense, a believer can choose to have faith that God is presenting them with the message that is of the most use to them and that they are most capable of understanding.


As a disclaimer, I am an atheist but tried my best to present my points from a Christian perspective.

I believe the bible and any other "holy" books are guidebooks and nothing more. Religions all around the world have sacred texts with many differences/events/etc. , yet they all have one thing in common, to have the reader believe in something greater than themselves and to live good wholesome lives. Doing right by others.

Most religions took the originals, and warped them for their needs and control of population. Inciting holy wars for expansion and power. The only proof I need in this is witch hunters/knights/paladins/religions that killed/maimed/slaughtered people in the name of a "god/gods". Any "god/gods" that would allow a being to be killed in his/her name is no "god" I want to have any faith in. By presenting vague interpretations and bending the texts to their will for religious domination.

I find it hard to really follow any religion during this day and time, when interpretation over the years in my mind has made all religion a jumbled mess with very little left the authors intended to get out.

The only thing I can believe is we are here for a purpose, and that something (God/Aliens/Space explosions/whatever) created everything from something. Hard to believe that at some point from nothing came everything. Who knows, its not our job to ponder these things, we should live our lives until the end when all will be revealed at some point in time.

reply to post by randyvs

How about this then ? God created the universe but you seem to believe that he can't control what his word is all about ? Or what goes in or comes out ? I disagree with that. No matter if even I lived my whole life in seclusion with no education at all. Scripture replaced scripture the way I see it. Fail.

Just because someone brought up something that you couldn't prove wrong does not make it a Fail. This isn't about religion, it is about your thread that you made...please stay on topic.

How about everyone take a vote on whether randyvs is an idiot?

I vote yes.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Read my whole post, it wasn't written in English, it was a mistranslation. Of course Jesus wouldn't refute being called the Servant of God.

Thomas's quote (from John 20:28) was not calling him the servant of God, he called Jesus God directly (even in the Greek) [και απεκριθη θωμας και ειπεν αυτω ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου].

Also the first to call Jesus the son of God was the Angel Gabriel who said to Mary "He will be called the Son of God" (in Greek: υἱὸς θεοῦ). Which cannot be translated as Servant of God.

What I was saying was that in light of that fact, the translation where the Apostles called Jesus "The Son of God", stands as a viable interpretation.

* all texts quoted from the Byzantine Majority Text.

reply to post by randyvs


If you emphatically believe in the word of god an his scriptures you would not entertain this. Through your actions of starting a debate on a topic that could suggest or implicate your god may or not exist. Doing this suggest to many that you may be seeking to be reassured of your belief. On a side not my friend a true Christian would nether try to convert people through debate or any other vulgar action. You might as well set up a large tent and preach for donations
You see People find god on there own. he don't need door to door salesman. As for the topic of the thread King James Bible is just one of many that has been changed my two cent lol . BUT this thread is irrelevant and only boils down to he said she said. due to the fact nether side have or will ever get to see the original manuscript to compare.

Originally posted by tetra50
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Throw up my hands? Why you have stated here what I hope and pray to be my salvation, and yours and all who are here with us. Why would I throw up my hands. I do not care which of us is righter or smarter, but that some of us have cared to actually read and equated and "discerned," so I love what you have provided, and take comfort in it. What I hope is that someone will see that we live in times where darkness and light have been combined, to the detriment of both, and science has been skewed to go along with this and keep the obfuscation ongoing so that we will be made more and more only concerned with greater and lesser, righter and wronger (forgive bastardization of english), so that my children and yours are both allowed to live and prosper, and not judged and placed at war with each other in a way that only darkness can win. And yes, god does love me, as he/she loves even those who proceed with arrogance and seek to prove themselves greater.

Your words are standing on the side of divining the light form the darkness. The method to this is law. The law of God is the international standard pitch to tune the piano by. Harmony only comes from removing dissonance. Can you really find this apart from God? Read Malachi . You won't regret it. This is where God stands with sin. Yet, He is patient with us in loving-kindness. We light the fire we burn by or we are the light on the path. It's a choice to collapse the wave of infinity by free will. Evil must be a choice or there is no choice.

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Read my whole post, it wasn't written in English, it was a mistranslation. Of course Jesus wouldn't refute being called the Servant of God.

Thomas's quote (from John 20:28) was not calling him the servant of God, he called Jesus God directly (even in the Greek) [και απεκριθη θωμας και ειπεν αυτω ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου].

Also the first to call Jesus the son of God was the Angel Gabriel who said to Mary "He will be called the Son of God" (in Greek: υἱὸς θεοῦ). Which cannot be translated as Servant of God.

What I was saying was that in light of that fact, the translation where the Apostles called Jesus "The Son of God", stands as a viable interpretation.

* all texts quoted from the Byzantine Majority Text.

Could it not also be a mistranslation that was corrected to mean Son of God over the centuries? Isn't it even possible!?

By that text itself, we are cautioned to believe that faith is what will salvage us, and that faith is not informed by word alone, just as our worthiness will not be on deeds alone. Faith is what it is, despite proof, words, equations and science.....the mystery, but the commitment, without any proof whatsoever