Aliens do/dont exist, so what ?!

Been reading ATS for 4 months or something, had enough of "no evidence crap" on ufo/et matter. ALIENS DONT EXIST! WHY?

1) Our Sun is a star, much like the billions of other stars (suns) in our Milky Way Galaxy.
The distance to the nearest star is immense and would take an impossibly enormous amount of energy for any spaceship to travel that distance.
The amount of energy required to travel the very much smaller distances from Earth to Mars, Jupiter, Saturn is already large no matter
what energy source you use. The distances are so large to the stars that it would also take a lot of time for the trip.
(An excellent description of how tremendously far the nearest stars are is given in the recommended book "Seeing in the Dark"
by Timothy Ferris)

If you think of our enormous Sun as a grain of sand then
(a) the orbit of the Earth is 2.5 cm (1 inch) in radius.
(b) our Solar System is the size of a beach ball. (Almost all our unmanned probes stay within this space).
(c) the nearest star is another grain(s) of sand over 6 km (4 miles) away. Compare that with the radius of the orbit of the Earth.
(d) even at this very compressed scale, our Milky Way Galaxy would be 160,000 km (100,000 miles) wide.

2) The planets and moons of our Solar System are too inhospitable to life.

Due to these 2 factors alone, alien sizes and alien ships as described by much of science fiction and told by extra-terrestrial buffs, cannot have come from outer space to be on Earth.
Our Solar System planets and moons are just too inhospitable to sustain, let alone evolve such life. This does not mean we will not find microscopic or even larger life forms in our Solar System, but not intelligent life, let alone space machines.
The near stars are multiple stars systems or have other characteristics that would prevent the evolution of intelligent life. This is on top of the difficulty of travel with the large distances involved.

There are no aliens in our Solar system. If they exist, they are far away and they have no intentions to make contact with us, ever. We are too primitive to speak, understand, trade with them, and so on. It would be the same for us to trade with apes. Another thing is that, all those ufo believers that say they have been abducted by aliens, is a load of crap, it is the affect of drugs, alcochol and idiotism.

What about UFO's? There have been dozens of sightings - half of them even cannot be classified as ufos, people are just too imaginary, for example - try reading ufo stuff for 12 hours, then go out to watch the stars, youll be amazed. People tend to take pictures of satellites, weather ballons and all kinda crap that looks strange, the thing is that there are no UFO's from outer space, they are all military aircraft. Thats my point of view, because i havent seen no Aliens, UFO's - YES, ALIENS - NO. Thats the thing, you all associate UFO's with Aliens, but as we advance our technolodgy, we have anti gravity propulsion and stuff, it is just a secret, society fears the unknown, it causes hallucionations and idiotism, not even mentioning underground Reptilian believers.. what can i say, people .. look around you, dont imagine, live, work .. get a life. Thats only my opinion, cant judge the believers, everyone have their own opinion. just dont make elephants out of ants ok? Even if they exist, so what? What does it change? Life goes on, nothing happens. To sacrifice your lifetime for searching life in space? Sounds crap to me. Enjoy folks!





[edit on 4-9-2004 by WOO HOO]

[edit on 4-9-2004 by WOO HOO]

[edit on 4-9-2004 by John bull 1]

Actually, now you're being ignorant. If aliens could come here, they would probably have a mode of transportation that is incomprehensible for us humans.

What are you on about? It's ridiculous to believe that all alien lifeforms would have the exact same Biology as us, not be able to live in low or high gravity or extreme conditions. I find your opinions very closed minded.

You talk about travelling...do you not think an alien civilization would have better technology than us? Have you never heard of traveling by an Einstein-Rosen Bridge? Face it, our means of propulsion would be considered unadvanced for a civilization that was even a thound years more advanced than us, much less millions of years...try reading this:
www.zamandayolculuk.com...

You say "The planets and moons of our Solar System are too inhospitable to life." May I ask you how you know this? Even lifeforms here on Earth have adapted to extreme environments and can be found in extreme heat and cold. Some lifeforms live with little or no oxygen at all, but live off of poison gases at the bottom of the ocean. Why do you think life cannot survive in extreme conditions elsewhere when it does so right here on Earth? Try actually reading something...start with something like this:
www.astrobiology.com...

or

www.resa.net...

Next you say "There are no aliens in our Solar system. If they exist, they are far away and they have no intentions to make contact with us, ever. We are too primitive to speak, understand, trade with them, and so on. It would be the same for us to trade with apes. Another thing is that, all those ufo believers that say they have been abducted by aliens, is a load of crap, it is the affect of drugs, alcochol and idiotism."

...Again your being very close minded. There is no rational explanation for what you just said, and its basis has no evidence to support it. You have totally lost all credibility on this board, and you present no evidence for what you are claiming!

PS- This statement made by you : "believers that say they have been abducted by aliens, is a load of crap, it is the affect of drugs, alcochol and idiotism." is a statment that could get you a warning or a banning, so be careful what you say. You are calling some people on this board "idiots" because you do not believe them, and that is totally uncalled for.

If you want to earn your credibility back, please back up what you are saying with evidence. Since you will not be able to do this, your opinion is not contributing to this board, but simply distracting from people that want to present good evidence and have serious talks about their experiences.


By the way...it felt good to disprove what you just said


[edit on 4-9-2004 by Jazzerman]

[edit on 4-9-2004 by Jazzerman]

Hi, me too ,Iwas sceptic...

I am not a teacher in H. School. Are you?

Originally posted by WOO HOO
The distance to the nearest star is immense and would take an impossibly enormous amount of energy for any spaceship to travel that distance.
The amount of energy required to travel the very much smaller distances from Earth to Mars, Jupiter, Saturn is already large no matter
what energy source you use. The distances are so large to the stars that it would also take a lot of time for the trip.

Actualy, the energy needed to travel in space isn't that great.

Its the energy needed to lift an object from the surface of the earth into space that takes so much power.

If you look at certain satelites that work with a main source of plutonium powered thermoelectric generators, they have a rather extreem long lifetime.

As far as I'm concerned, to postulate the existance of extra-terrestrial intelligence which is exploring our sector of the Milky Way, you only need to make a single assumption. That assumption; Earth was not the first planet in this galaxy to sustain life.

Just take a look at what humans are doing now, we're trying to explore space. We're trying to figure out ways to go deeper into space, further away from our host system. And humans have just over 50 years of experience at doing it. If a race of beings evolved on the more outer regions of our galaxy, and were perhaps a million or so years ahead of us, would it not be logical to assume they have mastered the art of interstellar travel?

Already people are starting to make assumptions about what is possible to do with space travel and what is not. I don't understand that one bit.

This does not mean we will not find microscopic or even larger life forms in our Solar System, but not intelligent life, let alone space machines.

So why do you reason that this microscopic life will not evolve like it has done right here? What exactly prevents your microscopic life from manifesting itself as other organisms?

The near stars are multiple stars systems or have other characteristics that would prevent the evolution of intelligent life. This is on top of the difficulty of travel with the large distances involved.

Where is your data to backup those claims? If you're referring to the locations of habitable zones or orbits, there's no evidence to suggest life cannot evolve in an amonia or methane atmosphere, or one of many other chemicals that have different freezing and boiling points.



[edit on 4-9-2004 by electric]

I have no proof, neither you have proof of intelligent lifeform existence and other stuff. I live in reality, what i dont see and it cant be proved, that doesnt exist. Im not close minded, i live in reality, in this world, not in "Star Wars" or something.

Q: What are you on about?
A: Aliens don't exist, if they do, it doesnt change anything at all.
Q: Do you not think an alien civilization would have better technology than us?
A: Actually i dont believe in intelligent life in other solar systems, apart from that, if there were technologically more advanced or less advanced race than us, they would have no interest in us, because technologically advanced race has no point to contact us, they have everything we could possibly make up, a technologically weaker/similar race would possibly fail to reach earth.
Q:Have you never heard of traveling by an Einstein-Rosen Bridge?
A:No.
Q:"The planets and moons of our Solar System are too inhospitable to life." May I ask you how you know this?
A: Too inhospitable for intelligent life, thats for sure.
Q:Why do you think life cannot survive in extreme conditions elsewhere when it does so right here on Earth?
A: Life itself can survive, not the way i see it, advanced, thinking creatures cannot survive in extreme conditions, because they cant evolve to that level.


[edit on 4-9-2004 by WOO HOO]

What is REALITY ???

Q: So why do you reason that this microscopic life will not evolve like it has done right here? What exactly prevents your microscopic life from manifesting itself as other organisms?
A: It cannot evolve in extreme conditions. Other than that, there is no proof that it has. I there is no proof, there is nothing to discuss about.
Q: Where is your data to backup those claims?
A: My data is a normal human brain logic thinking for what is true and what is not, for what is proven and what is not, for what is made up and what is not.
Q: There are no aliens in our Solar system. Who said there was?
A: 1 of 10 threads is about this crap.

Originally posted by chapo
What is REALITY ???

Live - Work - Die

I hope you are candidat for a monastery existanse

Originally posted by WOO HOO
I live in reality, what i dont see and it cant be proved, that doesnt exist. Im not close minded, i live in reality, in this world, not in "Star Wars" or something.

You are close minded. Don't try and prove you are not, because the statments you have made indicate just that.

You need to read some books and learn some information about life processes here on Earth before you even begin to critisize life elsewhere. Lets just say for instance that intelligent life can only evolve on Earth-like planets...well, what makes you think that out of the infinite number of stars, galaxies, supergalaxies, universes, etc. there is not one other planet like Earth, and that it doesn't have lifeforms. Even if .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 % of planets in the universe have life that would mean that there is still a chance for Earth-like life to develop elsewhere.

Its good to challenge the belief in extraterrestrial life to test one's own knowledge and evidence, but one must always keep an open mind, and with you saying things like, and I quote you, "Aliens don't exist" you leave yourself open to a whole barrage of criticism.

People that believe have evidence in the form of stories, pictures, eyewitness accounts, etc. that cannot just be explained away as Govt. aircraft and birds. Even some govt. officials are now telling what they know. This leaves a plethora of evidence supporting the idea of extraterrestrial life. So, now give us some of your evidence.......of which you most likely have none.

PS- You don't live in reality, because if you did you would know that we live in a world that is still developing and ever changing, and with development comes knowledge. Our progress will lead us to new ideas we have not yet thought of or discovered, and things that were thought to be impossible only 50 years ago are now common place today. Thus, in this ever changing world, you never know what is possible. You however think you know the limits of possibility and are therefore close minded!


[edit on 4-9-2004 by Jazzerman]

Originally posted by WOO HOO
Q: So why do you reason that this microscopic life will not evolve like it has done right here? What exactly prevents your microscopic life from manifesting itself as other organisms?
A: It cannot evolve in extreme conditions. Other than that, there is no proof that it has. I there is no proof, there is nothing to discuss about.

If I was a creature at the bottom of the sea, living off of a hydrothermal vent, I may consider all other conditions to be extreme. By what measure can you say conditions are extreme?

I agree that there isn't any good evidence to suggest there is an abundance of life anywhere else in the universe. But what I'm trying to point out is that it's probably due to the fact that we're in our cosmic diapers.

Originally posted by WOO HOO
Q: So why do you reason that this microscopic life will not evolve like it has done right here? What exactly prevents your microscopic life from manifesting itself as other organisms?
A: It cannot evolve in extreme conditions. Other than that, there is no

Please read: www.astrobiology.com...

If you do not come back on here with more valid opinions than just "I think so" you have completely dismissed all your credibility. If you don't then I will DENY your IGNORANCE, as I would suggest that others do as well!

''You are close minded. Don't try and prove you are not, because the statments you have made indicate just that.'' Ok im close minded, i dont believe in fairy tales, i belive in what is discovered and scientifically proven and thats kinda normal!

Q: By what measure can you say conditions are extreme?
A: Life evolution without water, oxygen.

If you say there are intelligent life forms, prove it. I think there are no, and until you prove there is, you cant judge my opinion. Dreams are good, living in dreams is not good.
+
Saying there is, theres got to be is absolutely nuts, because denial is a lot stronger than dreaming/imagining if no proof is given. So go sit in a corner



[edit on 4-9-2004 by WOO HOO]

[edit on 4-9-2004 by WOO HOO]

I'm sure alot of you have said this before, but I'll say it again..

We are not the only life form in this universe.

Originally posted by Minime
I'm sure alot of you have said this before, but I'll say it again..

We are not the only life form in this universe.

Meaning ... intelligent life form ? I havent read of one that is discovered.

Originally posted by WOO HOO
If you say there are intelligent life forms, prove it. I think there are no, and until you prove there is, you cant judge my opinion. Dreams are good, living in dreams is not good.
+
Saying there is, theres got to be is absolutely nuts, because denial is a lot stronger than dreaming/imagining if no proof is given. So go sit in a corner

Perhaps you're simply not interested in this subject. In which case I'm starting to wonder what your purpose here is.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with speculating about possiblities of the universe. And how it would make more sense to some people to assume there's plenty of life throughout this Milky Way Galaxy alone. There's no proof that suggests life can't exist elsewhere.

That was without even touching on the subject of UFO's, alien contact and alien abductions etc. I'm convinced there is enough evidence to suggest extra-terrestrial piloted craft do occasionally visit Earth.

If abductions are purely hallucinations, as you're suggesting, then why are all these people having the same hallucination? What of the physical effects left on their bodies? What of the radiation poising suffered by those exposed to craft? What of abductions that deal with multiple people in the same abduction case?

The answers to these questions, according to witnesses, are black and white. Extra-terrestrial races study us in the same way that we would study life on our own planet. Is it not reasonable to assume that, if an extra-terrestrial race did exist, they may have an interest in biology, as humans do?

Okay.

Alpha Centauri, Beta Centauri, and Proxima Centauri comprise the nearest system to our own, the system Sol.

They are approximately 4.33 light years away. One light year is approximately 9,460,575,060,170.5728 km. So, 4.33 LY is approximately 40,964,290,010,538.580,224 km. That's very roughly 41 trillion kilometers.

Long way, isn't it? How long do you think it would take to get from here to there? 200,000 years? 15,000? 1,000,000? No, actually. It would be a long journey, but DEFINITELY not an unimaginable one.

My friends, I introduce you to the Ion Propulsion Engine. In testing and use by NASA and the EU, it powered the 1997-8 flight of Deep Space 1, lasting roughly 8 months. It is planned to power a lunar mission from the EU very soon, and it has undergone 8000 hour stress tests. This engine is marvellous because it is extremely efficient. It starts slow, then builds. It pushes with a TINY amount of force, but in space, nothing pushes back. If you combine this with standard fuel, you can reach some amazing speeds.

As a rough estimate, (and a fairly grounded, but still very rough one) the engineers at NASA could build an ion-propelled craft with traditional thrusters to reach a general cruising speed on a 4.33 LY journey that would take approximately 70 years to reach its target - peaking speed at roughly c/12. c, of course, being our friend the speed of light.

Now - this is still a rudimentary technology. We are still a very young species. You said it yourself, we could be like apes, they wouldn't trade with us. But then, we send people out to observe the apes and make passing interactions with them frequently. Even when it was a fair trouble to do so, back in the 18-1900's we sent explorers down there, well, someone from Alpha Centauri as far ahead of us as we are from apes would not have thought much of their trip here. Thinking extremely conservatively, even if they were only travelling at c/4, that's 3 times as fast as us, they'd have made it here in 15-16 years.

1920-25.. A lot of radio just started coming into use. They would be inside our 'signal-bubble' of 50 LY, and, assuming they had any sort of observational technology, would have noticed us within 4 years. 1925-30, they've realised they need to come and take a peek, so they've got to spend some money and build the ships and acquire the man power and get interest and plan and prepare, they're on their way fast, it isn't as if they didn't expect this. Then they arrive 1941-1946.

Hey, Foo Fighters!

Well, people were too concentrated on the war in the early 40's, then on the Russian Spies in 45-46, but, 1947... Isn't that a bit of a 'big' UFO year?

Sort of, the year the UFO explosion began?


If you think about it WOO HOO, logically, all those UFO crackerjack nutjobs who said they were sexually abused by grey midget-men, who said that they lost weeks of their lives, who, once they thought "I might have been abducted by a UFO. I should go to a psychologist and get them to hypnotise me so I can remember that." and then remembers *!* UFOS!!!, well, they were all inadvertently giving us a huge load of evidence. The dates.

If there is anyone at AC, then they would have found out about us between 1920 and 1930. The fact that it would have taken them until the early 40's to get here, which is ironically when we started seeing them, is an amazing coincidence, no?

Of course, it's just circumstancial evidence. Just a "Wow, those pieces of the puzzle look nice together" kind of thing... Without this it's an arguement that goes:

UFO-Person: IT COULD HAPPEN!!! WE CAN'T KNOW!
Skeptic-Guy: THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD JUST BELIEVE IN IT IMMEDIATELY!!!
UFO-Person: IT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T
Skeptic-Guy: IT MEANS YOU SHOULD STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE YOU'RE RIGHT - YOU'VE GOT NOTHING.
UFO-Person: *profanities*
Skeptic-Guy: *profanities*

Well, now the Skeptic guy has "You've only got some evidence!" and the UFO guy has "You've got nothing but probabilities!"



Long and short of it, dude, just drop it. You aren't going to end the 'UFO' craze. Just, just leave it.

*NOTE: Please, for the love of god, reply to my post in a way that makes sense. You keep doing this Q&A thing that's just retarded. It presents a nice way for you to change what the person is saying, then retort. I'm not asking any goddamn questions of you, I'm telling you that it was a nice try, but you should learn to spell/type properly, and not try to take on 50 years of freaks with personal experiences. Thank You.*

Originally posted by WOO HOO
Been reading ATS for 4 months or something, had enough of "no evidence crap" on ufo/et matter. ALIENS DONT EXIST! WHY?

You know nothing. Earth itself is the living and tangible proof that intelligent life can evolve in the universe. If it happened here, why can�t it happen again somewhere else in this vast universe? (or already happened before) It�s so stupid to believe there are not other intelligent life forms...I would only respect it if it was because of religion...

And why space travel is impossible...as I said, you know nothing (neither do I), neither you and me can imagine how a million years ahead society could be, we couldn�t imagine their technology, impossible. As I said we know nothing, we are space-cavemen.

Finally, you state that if there are intelligent aliens, they don�t want to contact us? well... that�s your idea, that�s what a close minded person like you would do, ignore them, of course you would. You just want to "live - work - die".

Take a look at this threads:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 4-9-2004 by Peronemlin]