ATS: We Have Failed!

Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar
reply to post by gentledissident

 

bring equality to this nation?

That is the problem. Equality is not "brought to anyone". You are equal only in your "Rights" and your standing in the courts. You alone are responsible for your persuit of happiness. You are supposed to earn your wealth.

That's not fair. I think we should work so that we may enjoy what a socialist/free market system offers. We have plenty of people and resources to easily produce what we all need with loads of time left over for leisure. We could be doing very little work as a whole and reaping huge rewards in the pleasure and enjoyment categories. We are primates cursed with the ability to contemplate our own death. Why not enjoy our frontal lobe instead of torturing it? Life is meaningless, and we know it. Why shouldn't we do our best to help each other through this slow procession to nothingness? We should come together as one family of Homo sapiens.

reply to post by gentledissident


Would you be kind enough to explain what a "socialist/free market" system would look like? I'm having trouble with things like how wages would be set, who would be in what jobs, whether prices would be controlled, how production quotas would be set, that sort of thing.

reply to post by gentledissident

Why shouldn't we do our best to help each other through this slow procession to nothingness? We should come together as one family of Homo sapiens.

You are a dreamer. There have been numerous attempts to establish a "Workers Paradise" under socialism. They always had to put a fence around their place to keep people captive rather than keep people from breaking in to share the happiness. The people in those utopias often got killed trying to escape to come to where you are now living and trying your best to destroy our way of life. I'm sure China would assign great propaganda value to your immigration to their great socialist utopia. Why don't you just move to China and let us keep things the way the are?

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Originally posted by charles1952
Would you be kind enough to explain what a "socialist/free market" system would look like?

Necessity is guaranteed, if you work to provide necessity. Automation, technology, and coordination greatly shorten the work week. If you don't want to participate or want to trade as well, there's the free market.

Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar
You are a dreamer.

Yes, are you unable to dream?

Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar
There have been numerous attempts to establish a "Workers Paradise" under socialism. They always had to put a fence around their place to keep people captive rather than keep people from breaking in to share the happiness. The people in those utopias often got killed trying to escape to come to where you are now living and trying your best to destroy our way of life.

From what I hear, the local communes disbanded due to infidelity and jealousy. I'm guessing the only way around that is a "love it or leave it" policy with an option to return once you're over it.

Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar
I'm sure China would assign great propaganda value to your immigration to their great socialist utopia. Why don't you just move to China and let us keep things the way the are?

China is not my dream. I'm pretty sure you're aware of the game you're playing

Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Truth. We're making history again. Look out.

reply to post by LightAssassin

Roll your eyes as much as you like...

I don't think this is just about "redistributing" wealth. I'm all for full takeover. Been talking about it a long time on ATS, for example Can the USA be Repossessed? and Democracy against Corporatocracy: Fighting the Machine.

As I said, you're right, the government does not own the Fed. The same guys who own and control Wall Street own the Fed. Meet the Global Financial Elites Controlling $46 Trillion In Wealth.

Forget redistribution. Go for the gold.

reply to post by soficrow


But we can both agree OWS is going nowhere, and will continue to go nowhere because it is being directed in the wrong direction?

Also, it'd be a safe bet that to achieve anything it will need to be a civil war, completely organised mobilisation of citizens and their 2nd amendment right to bear arms.

It is for this reason alone that the POLITICIANS want to change the 2nd amendment. Another area OWS seems to be avoiding.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Intelligent people know better than to waste their time sitting around parks waiting for some miracle to occur.

Nothing will come of this event except 1000s of people with brand new arrest records. Wall Street remains unaffected. The banks remain unaffected.... besides BoA's withdrawn fees. That might have been the biggest accomplishment of this whole movement.... saving $5 per transaction. A victory, but not nearly the victory that they aimed for.

its people in this state of mind" ohh it will never work waa waa waaa" that arent helping and may cause it to fail shame on you u scared wussys

Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar

Yes, we were fools from bailing everyone out from under the tyrants of two world wars, weren't we? Next time we'll provide munitions to Germany and Japan (or whomever) and settle back with some popcorn.

Bailing everyone out? Are you even serious? Do some research and see who financed both sides of the war and also see who really instigated the attack on Pearl Harbour. Then come back here and say the same thing.

People are so blind and ignorant it's incredible.

-facepalm-

Personally, I'm quite impressed with the whole Occupy movement, I think it is quite beautiful that so many beings stood together worldwide,
but don't think it is a failure.
Firstly, the Occupy movement was hardly going to change things in a moment. If you thought it would be that easy, you're sadly mistaken. However, what it did do is a) Unify a mass of people of different race/culture/belief ect and which will in turn awaken/recruit more people who now understand they are not alone. b) it allowed our enemy to see we are no longer going to be so subservient, that we are switching on to the greater picture.

This is the problem: We live in an age of seperation. Racism, Sexism, religious dispute and homophobia have been fed to us (mostly by the church, no offense to modern Christians/Catholics, but the mistakes of the Church will forever haunt me), making us hate eachother and believe we are alone. This is to stop us from aligning as one, from being the 99 percent.

They have worked hard to make sure everything seperates us. Weight, height, hair color, style of dress, choice of job/lack of job, sexuality, living arrangement, drug use... Everything, so that rather then identifying the true enemy, we are fighting eachother.

However, this Occupy movement has joined us all together, all across the world, different races, ages, sexes etc joined for the greater good, for justice, freedom, human rights, our planet, all as one.

So it isn't a failure at all, it's the beginning of an age of Unity.

Protests will not work against entrenched dictatorships and moneyed oligarchs. First we need discipline and solidarity. Next we need Mass civil disobedience , sabotage , Viral Messages that inform , Class Action , Citizens' Arrests and if push comes to shove secession. An ironclad set of rules of conduct with an ironclad set of goals and solutions which will work and are agreed upon by the majority will also be needed. The federal reserve , lobyists , special interest groups , un-capped campaign funding; all must go.

There needs to be insularity with these goals and rules so as not to allow them to be infiltrated and userped and turned against the movement. Also never move in crowds bigger than 5 (protests seldom work) unless it's goal is clear and achievable. Identity should only be on alias basis. If you do not have the conviction to see the goal through to the end , to die or risk imprisonment don't walk this path. Conviction is a must!

Read about revolutions and bloodless coups , get some survival/combat training , get in shape and learn your laws and rights.

the way to end the ows is for all the rich people to close their businesses, take their money out of the banks and turn it to gold and move it off shore and maybe move to Belize, Let the hungry Morlocks feast on the worthlesss Eloi.

Anyone drinking at the public trough should not be allowed to vote...period, including government employees...and I keep hearing the word 'entitlement' No one is entitled to anything...everything has to be worked for...when people start paying for their upkeep again then money will once again have value....something free is worthless. the more you give someone the more worthless they feel about themselves, this causes them to become angry at themselves and causes them to act out against the very hand that feeds them....they want to be 'equal' to those who support them and are angry because they know they are never going to be equal even if they steal all the money from the productive class...

Take care of yourself...end all welfare programs.

reply to post by LightAssassin

But we can both agree OWS is going nowhere, and will continue to go nowhere because it is being directed in the wrong direction?

I don't agree - flawed as it may be, I think OWS is at least telling the 99% they are not alone - generating dialogue, and new ways of perceiving reality. Absolutely essential stuff. OWS is just the first step - and yes, TPTB will do everything in their substantial power to prevent further steps from being taken. But the US population at least has been living in a bubble - an uniformed, misinformed, delusional bubble - and that bubble has burst. OWS offers a different take than the ruling 1%, and alternatives to understanding the current state of affairs.

FYA - another old piece (2004). Flawed, but essentially accurate.

It looks like America is in the final stages of a long planned corporate takeover, orchestrated and engineered by the same group that privatized the Federal Reserve back in 1920.

OWS did a good job of uniting people who may have felt they were alone in their thoughts. These people may have been told they were worthless and crazy by those in more fortunate and controlling positions.

Looks like over 3000 people have submitted to this website. That's a lot of work to write out a complaint, photograph it, upload to a computer, and upload to the site. How many people do you think these 3000 represent who didn't take those steps?

People seem to like OWS more than the TP. I like the little park poopers more, as I am a dirty hippie and not a flag waiving xian.

POLL: 99 Percent Message Nearly Twice As Popular As Tea Party GOP Message
PDF of poll instructions and break down of results.

People seem to like OWS more than Than Wall Street or Washington. OK, so that's a no brainier. I like my job more than Wall Street or Washington.

Poll: Occupy Wall Street Is More Popular Than Wall Street Or Washington

OWS has illuminated a wee bit of hypocrisy.

It's probably just another plan to make an excuse to bring marital law and even if it wasn't this would never work here is an example.

OWS protester 1: We did it! We got control!

OWS protester 2: So what now?

OWS protester 1: We give everyone equal place and equal authority.

OWS protester 2: You can't do that we need capable people!

OWS protester 1: And what if I disagree!

OWS protester 2: Then i won't let you run our country into the ground!

I'll let your imagination fill the rest.

sheepslayer247,

Your problem is that the many of the people at OWS were not there for the same reason, they just ended up with an unruly MOB and the people that "stood with them" had their own separate agendas. The second problem is that the 99% is not MY 99%. The views of OWS are too LEFT for most people unless, you want to get in front of a camera. In short, WE did not share anything in common and they just created problems. So, there you are, an ordinary person's view of OWS.

Originally posted by Molimo
OWS protester 1: We give everyone equal place and equal authority.

OWS protester 2: You can't do that we need capable people!

I'm not sure I get this part of the script. It seems like protester 1 wants everyone to make binding decisions on the same issue or task. I'm pretty sure people have different abilities and interests, so I'm not sure how that could happen if it were mandatory.

It seems like protester 2 is saying that people who are unqualified would get an equal say. OWS procedure seems to be about presentation and voting. I would think this would be fine for physical measures that have a measure of success.

The problem with true democracy, is that it takes away rights. Proposition 8 is a great example. It should be illegal to restrict rights. We should be free to do what we want with our bodies. Is it not hypocritical that UFC is legal, but pot is not?

reply to post by gentledissident


Democracy shouldn't exist at all and neither should most form of governments in fact unless everyone reached their full potential as a human being ( Look at what the brain can really do) it would be anarchy. Timocracy could work but some people dont like being something they dont want to be even if it is them and some people just dont like the idea of people being ranked even if they did have equal rights most of these protesters dont even know what they really want or the aftermath of this.

reply to post by gentledissident


And your question about the protesters 1 thinks everyone is equal and should be what they want to be and protester 2 thinks only the best should lead the real point is that they will generate war amongst themselves.

Originally posted by Molimo
Democracy shouldn't exist at all and neither should most form of governments in fact unless everyone reached their full potential as a human being ( Look at what the brain can really do) it would be anarchy.

I'm pretty sure it's sentence structure that prevents me from understanding what you're saying

Originally posted by Molimo
Timocracy could work but some people dont like being something they dont want to be even if it is them and some people just dont like the idea of people being ranked even if they did have equal rights most of these protesters dont even know what they really want or the aftermath of this.

Now I'm confused that you are mentioning Timocracy and equal rights in the same sentence.

Why would owning land give anyone the right to rule? Besides, The Earth is ours. We should share it. I can understand "owning" personal possessions, but living on The Earth, land, is a right.

Are you saying that people need to be ranked so that we can expect from each according to their abilities? I would think that in an automated utopia, jobs would be simple and take up little of a day. I would think that if one job got boring, one could easily fill another available slot.

reply to post by gentledissident


Take the "Owning land" part out and replace it with intelligence, ability and talent. All 3 in one person would be a bonus and there really are some people like that in the world.