ATS: We Have Failed!

reply to post by gentledissident


Im saying unless everyone reached their full potential we would still be killing each other and fighting over something meaningless.

Originally posted by Molimo
reply to post by gentledissident

 

Im saying unless everyone reached their full potential we would still be killing each other and fighting over something meaningless.

Finally, someone here who actually understands human nature. Whether people acknowledge it or not, we have a warrior class and everyone else. Our basic nature, collectively, is to dominate and control the pack. We haven't evolved, much.

If we had, we'd have colonized Mars 20 years ago. But we're greedy, as a species, and we don't do the selfless thing very well at all. Humans suck. Pretty much.

reply to post by tangonine


You just need to compare us to the animal kingdom (Which we are a part of anyway).

Originally posted by Molimo
reply to post by tangonine

 

You just need to compare us to the animal kingdom (Which we are a part of anyway).

edit on 20-11-2011 by Molimo because: (no reason given)

Yeah, you're right. Except animals aren't selfish. There is that part.

reply to post by tangonine


Even the mating rituals? Or the venus flytraps? Im sure animals do things that people would consider selfish but they dont have much of a choice because they are driven by instinct and that instinct is to survive and conquer (Though not all of them are like that some animals like bears are more concerned with their children and i said venus flytrap because even though they are plants they are technically alive). Our instinct is not as strong as their's but most of us just choose to not control it.

Originally posted by Revolutionz

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Intelligent people know better than to waste their time sitting around parks waiting for some miracle to occur.

Nothing will come of this event except 1000s of people with brand new arrest records. Wall Street remains unaffected. The banks remain unaffected.... besides BoA's withdrawn fees. That might have been the biggest accomplishment of this whole movement.... saving $5 per transaction. A victory, but not nearly the victory that they aimed for.

its people in this state of mind" ohh it will never work waa waa waaa" that arent helping and may cause it to fail shame on you u scared wussys

Big difference between being a "scared wussy" and being able to think logically.

Matter of fact, when one is unable to think logically, he usually has to fall back and resort to name-calling, like calling folks "scared wussies". He thinks that will mask the fact that he has no valid counter argument to present.

He's WRONG when he thinks that.

Because he can't think logically.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

Ok Braveheart calm yourself down.

Stop telling other members to shut up and calling them fools simply because they don't want to follow along with the crowd like good little sheep and view the world as you do.

Wrong.

Originally posted by beezzer
Busy topic, busy thread.
May I throw something out here?

It's been touched upon (not by OWS) but I'll say it again.

OWS is against "banking" influencing politicians.

Um, okay.

Why was there no protest against unions influencing politicians?

I know, rhetorical, since this was an SEIU driven effort. But this was definitely one of their (OWS) big problems.

Because union influence on politicians is nowhere near as big a problem. Period. They are out-spent and out-corrupted by hundreds of times by large corporations. And hell... SOMEONE has to stick up for workers' rights against private plutocrats/tycoons.

Just wanted to throw in that I went to Occupy Melbourne once and it was an absolute joke. The speakers they had (after passing the megaphone to whoever wanted to have a say) address the crowd had absolutely no clue who the real enemy was and one of the outcomes of this whole circus has been the proposition of a treaty between Australias first nations (the Aboriginals) and the Australian government which I think is bloody sensational but, what the F*** does that have to do with corporate greed!?

Misguided, would be ideologists and those university kids who just want to be seen doing something 'progressive' or whatever...

Once again, absolute joke- too many hugs and high fives on achieving a march through the city.

THE DEFINITION OF STUPIDITY IS DOING THE SAME THING REPEATEDLY AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS

reply to post by gentledissident

I'm guessing the only way around that is a "love it or leave it" policy with an option to return once you're over it.

Good idea. Leave the US right now and move to any socialist/communist country known for its delightful living conditions. OWS is a very small percentage of the people in the US. You don't represent the rest of us.

reply to post by Shadow666

People are so blind and ignorant it's incredible.

Gullible, arne't you? I bet you are one of those people who think we didn't land on the moon.

Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar
reply to post by gentledissident

 

I'm guessing the only way around that is a "love it or leave it" policy with an option to return once you're over it.

Good idea. Leave the US right now and move to any socialist/communist country known for its delightful living conditions. OWS is a very small percentage of the people in the US. You don't represent the rest of us.

You make me laugh at my power to frighten and enrage you. This must be what a troll feels like. Anyway, I'm guessing you won't be entertaining options for bringing our species together. I know there are a lot of you who live for the fight. I'm aware that any steps toward harmony will have to be in breakaway communities and will have nothing to do with government. I realize we will have to protect ourselves from those we enrage with our peace.

reply to post by gentledissident

I realize we will have to protect ourselves from those we enrage with our peace.

Oh, Lotus eater, you do not frighten me nor enrage me. You do invoke my pity, to have been left out of reality so badly. History is prrof enough that socialist/communist Utopias have never worked. People always want to escape them, but never do the risk their lives to join them.

Dream happy dreams. I hope reality does not inpinge upon you in a painful manner.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I'm not sure I can agree with one of your statements, NoHierarchy.

Because union influence on politicians is nowhere near as big a problem. Period. They are out-spent and out-corrupted by hundreds of times by large corporations.

I think you'll have a difficult time coming up with evidence to support that position.

In the last elections AFSCME was the largest spender in the country at a little under 100 million (and it wasn't even a presidential year), and three of the top five donors were unions. (The other two being SEIU and NEA). Remember also, that Obama spent about twice as much as McCain in 2008.

But I'm certainly willing to see your evidence that unions "are out-spent and out-corrupted by hundreds of times by large corporations."

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Sorry you are calling the occupy movements a chance at self-governing? LMAO!

Well let me tell you something, last night I got standing applause from WAC VIC for my efforts against this collectivist agenda! some weekly meetings had a whole of two people but now we consistantly have gotten 20-30 people each week since our rally at the legislature. All thanks to one facebook page and the dedication of WAC VIC.

A member of WAC nanaimo was at our meeting apparently the information I'd posted was quite useful and after people saw it many had decided to leave the occupy movement. These occupiers are worse than the current government when it comes to "management skills".

The media will not post the individualist uprising only the controlled uprising of collectivists, that is why they have consistantly ignored the fact that I stood up against the injunction as an individual and specifically stated that I am invoking my section 2(d) rights under the charter of rights and freedoms to disassociate from the paov and their consensus model. I made it clear that I was an individual only to find out that the test for the injunction did not pass for me and the judge had applied the test to me as if I were part of the group.

Fridays paper made me into the poster child of collectivism, by publishing my photo, exclaiming I was a "member of occupy victoria". I thought I made it clear that I'd disassociated the day before, plus one of their writers was in the court so they should have known better. Today I will be confronting the Times Colonist with regards to what I view as defamation of character on page A3 of their november 18th paper.

I've been protesting the protest since Oct 4th, since before the PAOV/occupy victoria got up off their ass and did anything (aside from have all the facilitators vote themselves into their permanent facilitator positions in this supposedly leaderless movement).

I am glad this movement is getting rolled back by mr. lazn, and I think the resistance for occupy v2 is mounting as well. We will have our revolution (it must still happen) but this movement will not be it, it is a trap.

reply to post by TheLastStand


"It is a trap" exactly what i was going to say.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


The real reason why it failed people is cause it was designed to! This movement was initiated by elitist and designed to fail to get us to believe that cooperative demonstration and rebellion wont work! The Occupy movement was totally ill informed, ill equipped and was going after a phantom! What i mean by this is they were going after an open market which is redicules! Anyone can participate in wall street! instead of going after the
corporate conglomerates, TBTF banking, Federal reserve banking, our politically controlled leaders and our manipulated main stream media! these people went after ideas!
If we allow this to be the reason why we give up on change or give up on our ideals over a failure that
should not have come in such small numbers or before we were really informed of who, what and where those that are manipulating us are, then we truely make ourselves such easy targets!
Those of us that should have been there to lead these people saw this movement as a failure; Noone informed these people what created our country, how our lives have been manipulated, that there is no going back to a democratic society because there never was one! Where the money meets the power is where we will find those that are controlling unethical laws, unfair control of the monetary system, unethical medical and big pharma meds that are dumbing us down and killing us, FDA controlled by this same Money/power network, GMOs killing us and making us sick as well and this list goes on and on!
I can talk for days about what, who and why these things are happening but right now we need to spread the word that all is not lost, the Occupy movement was just the beginning, the first thing we need to do is spread the word, secondly is stop supporting this system that's oppressing us as much as possible by boycotting those things we don't need! We need to stop being so materialistic, pay off our bills if that is at all possible or defalt and declare bankruptcy, spend as little as possible and if you think that this will contribute to a failure of the system! You must come to understand that this system has already failed and is being propped up to make it look sound! Lastly we must organize by meeting in person with other like minded individuals, protest peacefully in small peaceful groups until the word has spread enough to bring real change! As TPTB scramble to balance their enormous debt problems things will get worse and the system will alienate, fustrate and anger more and more people who will come to realize that there is a better way! These people will join with the rest and become more like minded and see they have been manipulated in their ideals and the truth will make more sense instead of looking like a conspiracy theory! We must not ever give up on change, revealing truth, making a more fair and equal society! many of us have lost our jobs, homes, families and lives! If we give up on changing our world we all will lose! I realize we will never have a utopia but we can do a hell of alot better then what we have today or what we have to look forward too! we don't want to wind up hiding in a hole somewhere fighting over food and clean water while the elite sit pretty in there expensive shelters waiting for populations to fall to managable levels! We must realize that we have already lost the world we once saw as free and we will never see that again but our children might have a chance at a better life but only if we fight to change that which is wrong today! never give in never surrender we have the stronger willpower, we have the moral high ground and we will succeed with our ideals pure and our message simple! We all have a right to work, play and live!

Yeah I wish they'd stop saying 99% and change it to "spoiled college kids who don't know how the world works"

Originally posted by JudgeDeath
OWS is only two months old be patient.

This all began in north Africa, then as predicted it spread to Europe, now less than a year later there are anti government protests WorldWide.

When Europe collapses this will become something much much bigger, we will have social unrest the likes of which we have never seen before, eventually all peoples will unite Globally and we will not stop until we "Stick it to the Man"

Tragic irony or poetic justice ?

I fear once we have social unrest we will never have a cooperative reconstitution of democracy! If we are waiting for a collapse to change things i'm afraid it will be too late to do anything but hide in the ground with what ever food, water, weapons and family we have! God help us if we are waiting for this day! From what i've been reading it seems there are many people who believe that we will somehow come togeather after a total systemic collapse but IMHO I don't see this happening! I do believe however that things need to get worse before they can get any better because of this attitude of it's not going to happen to me or cognitive dissonence pitting our belief systems against what we see with our own eyes but once people realize that things wont get any better maybe we can agree that our system needs to change! It's too bad we wont agree on what that is though!
As far as sticking it to the man. These men have been prepared for anything since the end of WWll and i'm sure they have their shelters or cities underground, in mountains or under large bodies of water fully stocked with all the amenities, luxuries and necessities they could need for at least a decade! Cause from where i'm sitting I see a collapse coming and have heard many of these men saying for years that there are too many people so they know it's coming and will probably initiate it or at least let it happen! I'm sure they are looking to get rid of the dumbest and weakest of us! I even wonder if the whole 2012 thing is a clue to get those that see the truth to prepare for the end! I'm sure they don't want us all to die because they will need labor to rebuild! According to Georgia guidestones that may be about five hundred million!

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Because union influence on politicians is nowhere near as big a problem. Period. They are out-spent and out-corrupted by hundreds of times by large corporations. And hell... SOMEONE has to stick up for workers' rights against private plutocrats/tycoons.

It's influence on politicians in defiance of the People. No different from corporate influence at all.

Buying votes is buying votes.

Why can workers not stick up for their own rights? I've been doing it for years - what makes them any weaker than me?