OWS Protester: …in a few days you’re going to see what a Molotov cocktail can do to Macy’s.

reply to post by Resinveins


From my friends and associates (and myself) who've been around the occupy crowd, we all seem to see the same thing - it's more of a party atmosphere than a protest. It's more of something to do to get out of the house than anything else.

They had dress like a zombie day and now they're planning a carnival of sorts. Sure doesn't sound like a protest to me.


The biggest problem they have is that there's no real leadership so there's no real message. When I was blessed with the Occupy Times Square road trip, I saw lots of signs, heard lots of singing but the message was never the same. Signs for teacher's wages, signs about oil, signs about wars in the middle east. The singing and chanting was the same thing, many songs and chants going on at once to create cacophony. It's a shame, really, because, if they had a unified voice, they'd be able to get their message out.

Instead, you get interviews with people saying we need to get rid of democracy and replace it with not democracy. One charismatic leader and one focused message and they'd be heard.

big time.

Originally posted by Mythfury
Bro, they tried being peaceful!
They sat there and got shot with rubber bullets, tear gassed, beat by the people "Protecting" them, or that should be, and It's wrong for them to want to change something?? Are you blind? "If you cant be a good example, youre just gonna set a bad one". If you can't see this as good, youre gonna see it as bad. Good for them stickin it to the man.

Okay great wise one, hold up a second. This is the type of thinking that will get the OWS protesters nothing. If you don't have the courage and discipline to remain non-violent in the face of violence, then you don't have the ability to stage a successful protest.

reply to post by Kryties


I'm certainly not blaming them. But I'm certainly not going to exile myself to the fantasy land where violence is only supported by a few individuals at OWS. It doesn't matter anyways.

The fact is there are people there that support violence. Some cities more than others. The unfortunate fact is that they are part of OWS, so OWS has to be responsible and proactive, and remove these people from the demonstration as soon as they voice their opinions or show it with their actions. Otherwise, if they are left alone, they do represent OWS.

This isn't about being pro OWS or anti OWS. This is about protests in general. Demonstrations are only a phase, one that, in order to be successful and advance to the next stages, has to be law abiding and non-violent. The purpose of this phase is to gather support. If these people are allowed to be a part of the protest then the public won't be so quick to offer their support.

This is the end of the communist Occupy Movement in America, too bad it has to end violently by their choice instead of going home because of the horrid sanitary conditions and the onset of winter naturally. Nature would have ended it, they know this and will rush to set off their communist revolution in violence.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
I swear its like the people of this country are so brain washed that they think this is all ok. What if our founding fathers just said "eh.. lets not make trouble against the Brits... let's just do what they say. After all we don't want to cause problems for those Brits who are just trying to make a living."???

There is no comparison between these "Gimmie Gimmie Squatters" and the Founding Fathers. The Founding Fathers were highly intelligent intellectual businessmen, scientist, entrepreneurs and Men of Means who outlined set goals, set a clear direction supported by real content which outlined a clear agenda and when they spoke it was with purpose

So that analogy doesn't work!

Originally posted by Kryties
I read it this way. Most of the OWS crowd are planning a non-violent response and a nutjob or two (out of how many thousands?) decides to get violent.

So, lets blame the lot of them on the actions of a few eh?...

When will some OWS supporters get tired of making excuses with that same old worn out dismissive argument?

Yes, We know they don't represent the whole, Yet, without clear leadership and agenda this is exactly the type of crap one can expect, MOB rule where anything goes amongst some of the supporters.

Originally posted by Crakeur
It's funny, the locals are fed up with them and the media is, finally, taking their side. Last night, on NBC's 11PM news, one report was about the media blackout during the eviction. Turns out the cops forced the reporters out of the area and the NBC guy was pretty upset about it. When they told him to get off the street, he asked why. When they said he was blocking traffic, he pointed out that they had closed the street to all traffic hours earlier. There were a bunch of these ridiculous lies told to the reporters.

Yeah. It's my understanding that they blocked off all access to the area from two blocks away on all sides, mainstream media included.

Given the NYPD's seeming approach of 'one and done' , lean and mean, clean sweep of the park, It likely saved them a fair amount of bad press.

reply to post by TinfoilTP


Violence wont end it, remember what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, violence and a few martyrs may actually strengthen their resolve.

There are some insiders and organizers who actually believe that violence is the only way to advance their cause now, because apparently everything else in failing, and "peaceful protesting accomplishes nothing".

Maybe in some small numbers they believe they can spark a revolution, where the only way to end the violence is to answer their list of demands?

Of course, if it goes that way, it will be crushed and ended rather quickly.... But will provide the true organizers with an abundance of material, imagery, video and witnesses to use as propaganda in the future.

Can the OWS movement separate itself from those within it seeking confrontation and violence?

Have to wait and see, I suppose.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


So we have one protestor threatening molotov cocktails.

Okay.

Then this means that all the tea party posters we have on this thread are murderers, since once of their own gunned down a nine year old girl - and five other people - in an attempt to murder a Democratic senator?

reply to post by Crakeur

One charismatic leader and one focused message and they'd be heard.

big time.

You volunteering? Unite the Tea Party and OWS into one giant anti-establisment movement with a clear agenda! You can start it from your office window and take your first real victory by saving Macys tomorrow!

Seriously. I've got your back. I'm a good 15 hours away, so if you need any help..... stall.

OWS is a op of some sort , do not know if it US backed or other, but i will say this, To many agendas, no real leader ship, no real here "is our demands" or a clear list, or how to fix them , yes they are P!$$ed, the have the right to protest, But it just takes one to set the stage on fire, and the OP has pointed this out , for now they can be deemed the enemy of the state, could Martial law be their real agenda? Think about it Obama has no leg to stand on , how else would you stay in power at a time like this, Ron Paul is winning, the war on terrorism is winding down, OWS just an other OBS?

reply to post by GringoViejo


Trouble is, how does OWS get rid of the violent ones without looking like they are deliberately shunning certain parts of society and acting like those that they are protesting against?

I agree though, these protests have gone nowhere fast. There needs to be a different approach, perhaps as the Crakster said under a clear form of leadership with clear goals and rules.

One thing I will always do though, no matter how much crap I cop from people about it, is ALWAYS support the rights of people to protest wherever and whenever they want.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I'm neither charismatic nor focused but thanks for the nod.

reply to post by bekod


In other words, we can't put our concerns into a ten-second soundbyte, so you - being too lazy to so much as click a link - just assume there's no message.

Oh well. Your loss.

reply to post by SLAYER69


You've got me all wrong mate. I have come to see that the protests have gone nowhere fast, and that a new strategy needs to be taken. I do, however, get pissed when I see ridiculous claims vilifying the protests - in another thread some bloke tried to claim the AK-47 gunman the other week in Washington was deeply involved with OWS and was the root cause of why he shot the place up - yet the article itself he linked said no such thing. It's this type of ridiculousness that irks me greatly - particularly when it's aimed at people who's intentions are good, despite the fact the implementation has not worked out so well.

I will always support peoples right to protest what they want, when they want and how they want and no matter how much crap I take from people because of it - in the end I know I am supporting the search for the real definition of "Freedom", not the one spoonfed to us by our various PTB.

Originally posted by Cracker
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

I'm neither charismatic nor focused but thanks for the nod.

Couldn't you see the MSM news on it now?

Controller and executive staff member of the internet's #1 fringe "alternative" community abovetopsecret.com, Stephen, also known as "Cracker" will be taking the leadership role in the Occupy Wall Street movement in New York City.

Developing story...

reply to post by Crakeur


Well I guess your experiences differ from mine. And might I suggest that the people treating it as an excuse to get out of the house, aren't really protesters. unless getting out of the house for a week or two.. or a month is the in thing. Treating it as if they just wanted to get out of the house would suggest someone who was more interested in going there to see what was going on.. and yes party while doing it. Your solution to stop this?

Not to mention my question was about your characterization describing things like a rave. Which is kind of inaccurate. You didn't address that but reworded it to something less offensive.. and much more accurate.

Maybe a niggling detail to you.. but to those who've had to watch outrageous claims made against OWS just for the sake of putting it down?.. well to me your portrayal was just a subtler form of that.

I hope I'm wrong.

I also hope you see my point.

"Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her." -Revelations 18:8

Here is to wishful thinking. The city where all sins are committed against humanity. Where the nations were made rich from her. Interesting times we live in. The beast just might be the financial system of man that has overtaken the world, causing inequity, and a plague of other problems.

reply to post by Kryties


Actually, Kryties... posts like the one you mentioned.. .and the constant harpylike screeching from the media about how bad and terrible and evil these protests are? These are a sign that the protests are accomplishing something. These are desperate squallings from people who are afraid. Why are the police cracking skulls nad turning chemical weapons on people whose "crime," if there is one, is sitting on public property? Why are ATS posters - always the one who have had their noses firmly planted in hte backsides of the wealthy and powerful in the first place - coming up with these fevered imaginings?

I'm not sure what you expect as an "accomplishment" in all of two months. We're under no delusions that we can spend a weekend out there and change the nation. The fact that the elite and their cronies are reacting to these protests like a vampire reacts to sunlight, though, is a pretty good sign that it is going somewhere.

reply to post by Kryties
If any one is for the right of the people, of the people, for the people, they should say so , make a request form all states and city's county's , one from each, then meet, set up the agenda, list of demands, we want this, we request that, we ask that this is done or that, In today's world it would not be that hard to do live link anyone? Face book or IM, Buy air time, set up on live interviews Radio TV with the voice of the people, do not use words like "like, ya know, man," be a real voice of the people not some hoge poge rif raff, we want action we want it know we want jobs we want cut in student loans we want help give it to us now no to obama care no more split in the House or Senate no more war end the FED, bring our troops home, thees be the problems we all know this , the trick is to pull the rabbit out of the hat and fix this mess. The person that could or can do this should be the Pres of the US, till then we have what we have a mess that needs to be fixed, Ron Paul ,and the rest... Obama? ok ill give it a rest.