Military training and it's effect on humans

Originally posted by Aeons
The modern military is NOT a crusade in any way.

Those trying to apply this concept over Western militaries is doing so as propaganda.

Crusade today just a slightly updated face. Same nemesis. Quote from Chr0naut (not propaganda) You see, if no-one takes up arms against another, then there is no war. Thinking that military force protects you is false.The truth of the matter is that you appear to believe that a military force (like a Crusade) prevents warfare. The opposite is provably and logically the case.

(Second Sino-Japanese war then had Britain make Japan attack the United States for the same crusade strategy.); Balkanize strategy of divide and conquer. Propaganda that the Crusades were actually Venice ran merchant wars for control of the mediteranean and to make the old Rome a dominant world power again. No better way to prove Christ's teaching than murder thousands of muslims, jews, and Christians (who aren't crusaders).

reply to post by Raivan31


"Military training and it's effect on humans"


I joined the USAF in 1998, at age 26. My iq test scores placed me at about an 11 year high school education, with some additional vocational and technical understanding in some specific areas.

I was retired out of the USAF in 2009, at age 37. My iq test scores placed me above a 6th year college level, after 11 years of military training.

This was one of the effects of my military training on me, a human.

reply to post by MarkScheppy


In the land of peace, the man willing to pick up a rock rules.

reply to post by Aeons


Service? Sounds inherently militaristic. I rather like the movie "Gabriel over the white house". In there, the president organized a worker's army, with strict codes, guidelines, hours, and pay. A sort of government union. It was trained with military precision, and treated no different. Their wars were against weather, and their fighting to maintain and build cities and infrastructure.

Furthermore, forgive me but I don't follow your second post. There are plenty of people today who would just love to use unrestricted nuclear warfare. To be honest, I would have ordered the limited nuclear bombing of Afghanistan on 9/12/2001, waiting a week for them to turn out their vile ignorant men of death, and if anyone decided not to, nuked them too within that country. Fact is men will do these things without thinking, and we benefit from a large bureaucratic system to stop such things. Because I think I would feel guilty of doing this after some time.

Furthermore, they did have the ability to make places reduced to nothing but bacteria. Fire is fire, be it nuclear or handheld. There are plenty of places today that are deserts, but some time ago were healthy ecosystems before man came along.

Originally posted by Fox Molder

Originally posted by gravitor
Here in the UK is an organisation called...help the heroes.
I have had a few runs in with fund raisers of this brainwashing organisation.
I first asked "who is the heroes???"
and was informed that all the armed forces were such, and that is how it is promoted.
I argued that one or two of them may have acted in a heroic manner, but not all of them, this was countered with the reasoning that they are heroes fighting for our freedom, and risking their lives etc etc etc etc.
I argued that they chose to join, and are trained as KILLERS, very fit and well armed KILLERS, and if they use the sword, then they must expect to fall by the sword, and that there is nothing heroic in that, especially when they so vastly out armour anyone they encounter.
This leads to really annoyed supporters of this mind brainwashing organisation calling Me all sorts of names .

They are not fighting at My request, I deplore organised murder, and they are the murderers.
There is a clear and active push to brainwash the general public into thinking as the armed personnel so obviously do.
I have stood and talked with Young men and women about to deploy in afghanistan etc, they are very enthusiastic of the good they are going to do, and obviously totally believe this, they can hardly compute any other thinking, and quickly become irratated if You propose an alternative agenda that they are been USED to achieve.
I tell them that in my opinion they are MUGS, and are cannon fodder been sent into areas where wars are organised to support the agenda of a corperate led business called WAR.

gravitor

Ignorance...Pure and utter ignorance. Sorry....I was taught to INJURE before as a better choice to KILL ! To injure one soldier you take out a minimum of three, to kill one soldier you engage hundreds.

And, just so you know. A hero is one that stands for the fallen, one that screams in the face of those that oppress, that fight for those that can no longer or can not fight. To defend others freedom is more heroic than to defend your own!!

Now please, go back to school.

YOU are totally brainwashed, lock stock and barrel.
Your post is depressing in it's barbaric garbage
gravitor

reply to post by Gorman91


There used to be service groups in a number of Western nations. An example in the US was making the Lewis and Clark caves in Montana accessible.

(I think that was the ones. I walked numerous caves through South Dakota, and Montana this summer.)

This group was different than the military groups that made Yellowstone accessible after Grant signed it into a national park.

My point about nuclear warfare is that it has the capacity to annihilate every last bit of the only life we know for sure that exists in the universe. Militaries of the past couldn't turn the entire planet into a nuclear furnace.

reply to post by Aeons


Well of course not. There weren't even half a billion people back then.

With 7 billion people, we can. It was never a question of power, but rather numbers, to accomplish such things. Power simply is a factor of efficiency.

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
reply to post by Raivan31

 

Lets take a real look at why service men think they are "better" than their "civy" friends, its because they are. They are making a sacrifice while their civy friends are making pizza. They can run forever while their civy friends are stuck on the couch. They play real war games while their civy friends play XBOX. They risk their lives while their civy friends risk nothing. They are in athletic shape while their civy friends are in a pear shape. Better indeed.

EDIT - Watch this war propaganda to educate yourself about servicemen.

edit on 15-11-2011 by BIGPoJo because: (no reason given)

You _______ ! There is no one person who is better. How can you say somebody who takes the life of another is better than somebody who has never taken the life of another ?

That is disgusting thinking really.

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by jerico65

 

Ok so your happy to kill another person in combat for pay , under order , as long as you feel you are doing the right thing in defending your country from foreign aggression , or some ideal that your providing humanitarian aid and defence to those who are oppressed by their own leaders?

So you dont feel the slightest bit of remorse for the lives you take , as long as you feel you are morally doing the right thing , because you have been told its the right thing by your president who gives orders to your commander!

You see where Im going with this , how many times have our government been caught out and have been known to falsify evidence to invade countries for whatever reason.

If you are aware of the consequences of your actions , then what is the consequence of you killing another person in armed combat , they die , you survive , but at what cost .You get paid , they die and their family loses a member of their family . You go home to yours , and your government is happy that you done your duty to help keep them in power and help them achieve whatever political aim they had to begin with.

Oh there is also the fact that you did kill someone , yes you have taken anothers life , because you have been ordered to fight, but you did sign up to do that , knowing full well you would kill.

Defense takes part on your own soil or in the air over your country , not in some foreign nation , your not defending america , your defending its future empire , as for my country , well we are just a vassal of the US and do its bidding as we are told !

It is quite possible that the US is the less senior partner in that relationship???
Brilliant post by the way.
Why can't We make tractors for Iraq?
gravitor

It has been hard for me to read through most of these posts. The complete disrespect I see for soldiers you criticize and label them as murderers and consider yourself better for whatever reason. Most of you have no clue what it is to be a soldier your entire education on the subject is probably learned from behind a Xbox controller. You really make me sick.

Soldiers are mechanics, firefighters, cooks, medics, lawyers, police, interpreters, radar technicians, truck drivers, the list goes on and on. There are soldiers building schools that the Tali-ban have bombed providing security so the children can attend. Grunts do that, your so called murderers. Every day soldiers go out and put there life on the line to clear roads of bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan mostly for the civilians benefit. While you are back at home safe and comfy.

I wonder how many of you have even been outside of your own country? Your view of the world is so limited and uneducated. I was in the military before 9/11 and reenlisted twice afterwords. It wasn't about killing them it was about keeping my brothers in arms alive. You ask any soldier worth his or her grit what there worst nightmare is and they will tell you its not dieing its screwing up and getting a teammate killed. Thats right we put others life before ours. Could any of you say the same?

There is a bond between those who have served there country a respect we have for each other we all earned the uniform we wore. We have pride in ourselves that you wouldn't understand.

I have a solution for those who are complaining about the wars we are in. Most of you should know at least I hope you do. Soldiers fight the wars that politicians (civys) create. I f you want a world devoid of war or at least as peaceful as possible. Relinquish your right to vote and never run for office. The problem isn't the soldiers the problem Ly's in the civilian world the problem Ly's in you. We have politicians that have no clue what war is let alone what it is to be a soldier and the people who put them in office are voters that the only requirement to vote is being over 18.

That is the biggest joke ever. Most of you probably don't even vote anyway because you don't know how much of a privilege it is. The laws should be changed people should have to earn the right to vote or hold office in other words serve there country first if that were to happen there wouldn't be a government so eager to send there military into war because they would have a understanding of what war is and that soldiers lives mean something.

This will never happen because most of you are entitled brats that will stay on your couches and be content in complaining about how the world is and never do a damn thing to change it.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
It has been hard for me to read through most of these posts. The complete disrespect I see for soldiers you criticize and label them as murderers and consider yourself better for whatever reason. Most of you have no clue what it is to be a soldier your entire education on the subject is probably learned from behind a Xbox controller. You really make me sick.

Soldiers are mechanics, firefighters, cooks, medics, lawyers, police, interpreters, radar technicians, truck drivers, the list goes on and on. There are soldiers building schools that the Tali-ban have bombed providing security so the children can attend. Grunts do that, your so called murderers. Every day soldiers go out and put there life on the line to clear roads of bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan mostly for the civilians benefit. While you are back at home safe and comfy.

I wonder how many of you have even been outside of your own country? Your view of the world is so limited and uneducated. I was in the military before 9/11 and reenlisted twice afterwords. It wasn't about killing them it was about keeping my brothers in arms alive. You ask any soldier worth his or her grit what there worst nightmare is and they will tell you its not dieing its screwing up and getting a teammate killed. Thats right we put others life before ours. Could any of you say the same?

There is a bond between those who have served there country a respect we have for each other we all earned the uniform we wore. We have pride in ourselves that you wouldn't understand.

I have a solution for those who are complaining about the wars we are in. Most of you should know at least I hope you do. Soldiers fight the wars that politicians (civys) create. I f you want a world devoid of war or at least as peaceful as possible. Relinquish your right to vote and never run for office. The problem isn't the soldiers the problem Ly's in the civilian world the problem Ly's in you. We have politicians that have no clue what war is let alone what it is to be a soldier and the people who put them in office are voters that the only requirement to vote is being over 18.

That is the biggest joke ever. Most of you probably don't even vote anyway because you don't know how much of a privilege it is. The laws should be changed people should have to earn the right to vote or hold office in other words serve there country first if that were to happen there wouldn't be a government so eager to send there military into war because they would have a understanding of what war is and that soldiers lives mean something.

This will never happen because most of you are entitled brats that will stay on your couches and be content in complaining about how the world is and never do a damn thing to change it.

edit on 17-11-2011 by Grimpachi because: spelling correction

But where do you think the money comes from to pay soldier's salaries overseas and their guns and equipment, civilians right? Not everyone is born with a stuck up and snotty spoon, civilians many have to work hard in this broken economy. Be respectful because we are all in a struggle. As I respect you who serve in the military after 9/11, although Democrats (pre Obama) were right. And the politicians who said, Iraq and Saddam weren't responsible. They so were not even close to being a part of it, and that is the country our troops are still in. You are choosing to enlist for your own reasons (mostly). Not because you are a patriot, that's not patriotism, it's bending over and giving them a blow job.

You know that our government created this War on Terror right? I would rather stay home and be comfy on my Xbox controller or at the bar, knowing that I am not causing more blowback, by secret government sponsored hell. Commit myself to video games and staring at hot women out my window like it is a full-time job. To paraphrase Shakespeare, "Than those that walk and wot not what they are...And every godfather can give a name." The shroud of lies was a lot better orchestrated in Vietnam, with the guise of Democracy, liberty.

reply to post by MarkScheppy


You sir are a idiot to say the men and women and myself who have served there country without pause are bending over and giving them a blow job have shown me you have zero understanding of the military or the war in either country. As a soldier I had no say in what country I fought in and I could really care less which hell I was sweating my ass off in was called. My main mission was to keep those around me alive.

I am a proud American that until I was promoted I was paid less than what I made as a prep cook at a part time job in high school. Soldier of fortune you are a joke maybe you should do a little research before you make outlandish claims. You also have no clue what a cult is so please educate yourself perhaps look up the church of Scientology for that to get a better understanding just don't go into one I am afraid you would be easily converted weak minds are. They love people with secret government conspiracy theory's.

The war on terror was created when they flew their planes into the twin towers and will be over when the attacks against the us stop along with all attempted attacks. As for history maybe you have forgotten but it was soldiers who fought the revolutionary war that we now have a republic not a deh-mocracy as you said. Maybe you never learned this in school but it goes ONE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. Instead of siting at the bar or on your comfy couch why don't you open up a history book or if thats to hard put down the Xbox controller and turn the TV to the history channel if you watch long enough and pay attention you just may learn something.

Patriotism - love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it. That is the definition do you qualify?

Originally posted by MarkScheppy
But where do you think the money comes from to pay soldier's salaries overseas and their guns and equipment, civilians right?

Actually, military member pay taxes, so in a way, we're paying for our own equipment and our own salaries.

reply to post by jerico65


Your salary for a year probably just covers you for your equipment !
there are more civilians feeding the pot than there are military paying taxes.

Those in the military now , whether the US UK or France, well they are all fighting for the promotion of an ideal , and that is the rich get richer and the poor die trying !

When was the last time you got a pay rise for "defending" your country ?
I havent had a pay rise since the economy crashed and wont get another pay rise , In face Im getting paid less to do more and my pension is being froze and probably wont collect it at all despite paying into it for over 10 years now !

Your are following the government like the germans blindly followed the nazis!

reply to post by sapien82


As soldiers we paid for our own uniforms after basic and often bought our own equipment because what was issued was sub par. We earned our promotions which often came with a pay raise but not always. Promotion meant leadership, Honor, and more responsibility.

It's not about the money to us why can't anyone get that through there head. I get it the economy sucks but that wasn't a soldiers doing. If you want to blame someone blame yourself blame your neighbor blame your politicians. More of the blame rests on you and your neighbors shoulders than the politicians because it was those of you who put them in power and then turned a blind eye to what they were doing.

In the U.S. veterans make up about 1 percent of the population yet it is the veterans who have come forward and said theywill take a decrease in benefits to help the country. Once again we will lead by example and sacrifice just a bit more for the common good.

I have at least some respect for the occupy movement because at least they are doing something.(better late than never I guess). Maybe one day it will get bad enough and then the military will come in and fix it for you. I already posted my thoughts on how the gov should be run and it would mean big changes where people earn the right to vote and lead. If it ever happened the corruption would just about be all gone and those who took there place would put there country before there bank accounts.

We follow our orders within the UCMJ we follow our commanders and we do our jobs please don't ever compare us to Nazis.

The reason there isn't a draft in my country is because there were enough brave people who voluntered I don't know if thats a good or bad thing if they did have a draft at least the cowards would be in Canada now.If for that fact alone thank a soldier because you don't have to go because of them.

reply to post by Grimpachi


I get that you paid for your own equipment , and I get your following orders
you say its not about the money , then why are you in the army , if its for honour or for defending your country
your not defending it , your expanding its grasp on the rest of the world
and killing people to achieve that !

I dont have anyone to thank for not having to go , because we shouldnt be there in the first place.
Im quite happy at home never willing to join the military for any reason , because killing is wrong
and killing for pay , and killing for any political reason whether its in the name of defence or whatever !

I will not raise arms against a fellow human being in the name of my country , because that is fighting in armed combat for an ideal , that I dont believe in. I wont harm another human being , I will however defend myself if attacked personally or if find myself in a position where I am being attacked.

I wont seek out violence in the defence of political policies I dont agree with didnt vote for and grudge paying taxes to enforce.

Yes I grudge paying part of my salary to fund the UK troops to goto illegal wars to kill people.
I grudge paying crooks in parliament .

I will thank no member of the military for doing anything for me , I will however be pissed off at them for wasting my countries resources for killing instead of benefiting humanity and society.
yes definetely if a member of the military was standing in my defense if britain had been attacked and they invaded scotland for whatever reason and they helped me then I would be thankful .
However it should never have to come to that , if we arent aggresive in nature then we wouldnt have to fear foreign aggression !

My taxes should be going to educating the children of our future, feeding the poor and healping those in need of medical attention.

Originally posted by sapien82
Your salary for a year probably just covers you for your equipment !
there are more civilians feeding the pot than there are military paying taxes.

And? Sorry that I shot down your, "My taxes pay your salary" argument.

Originally posted by sapien82
When was the last time you got a pay rise for "defending" your country ?
I havent had a pay rise since the economy crashed and wont get another pay rise , In face Im getting paid less to do more and my pension is being froze and probably wont collect it at all despite paying into it for over 10 years now !

Join the military. We get a decent pay raise every once in a while. And I'm going to get a pretty good pension, unless Obama and his happy gang of ass-hats screw it up.

Originally posted by sapien82
Your are following the government like the germans blindly followed the nazis!

Sorry, the "you're all Nazis" argument doesn't fly, either.

Originally posted by gravitor
YOU are totally brainwashed, lock stock and barrel.
Your post is depressing in it's barbaric garbage
gravitor

That wonderful batte cry of the clueless. "You're brainwashed!"

Sorry if you can't understand what was written. He's right tho. You can kill one person, but if he's wounded, it will take at least three people out of the fight. Just basic math working for the fighting man.

I really do love this thread. The OP starts the discuss off about Military training.

Current and former members of the military share their viewpoints on how it's help or effected them.

People that haven't spent a single day in the military bleet like sheep, "You're lying! You're all brainwashed!!"

So much for deny ignorance. ATS is a breeding ground for it.

reply to post by sapien82


You are cluless. I have stated what my reasons were already for joining the military. You just can't wrap your head around it. It seems you are the materialistic fool hung up on money not me. You wan't a job but can't fight fine you could still join the Military become a medic or a doctor or the half dozen other things I listed before but I am guessing its really not about the fighting at all it is more lack of character.

If you want to prove me wrong then don't support anything war has secured. Don't drive or ride in vehicles that oil was precured partaily because of armys. Turn of the the power and that also means your computer because that also is conected to oil. No plastic either. Now your in the dark and you have to walk everywhere. That is just from oil. Do want me to list a dozen more things. You are a hipocrite. Your countrys freedom is secured by armed soldiers not people who are not willing to fight for it. Without a military I am sure you would see what hole sale death is because a country that is armed or a force like the Taliban would soon come in and show you. Don't worry to much the U.S. is used to coming to the rescue so you wouldn't be apressed for to long.

If anything its soldiers that should be pissed we never sighned up to be the worlds police force. I didn't agree with the Iraq war I sure as hell didn't like being there. Afganistan is a different story. I can tell you the lives I took could have just as easily have taken mine or worse one of my soldiers. You want the fighting to stop why don't you go over there and get them to stop. Try talking to them and see where that gets you. I would guess at the end of a machette on camera but I could be wrong. If it worked then my buddies could come home and the world be a better place.

Would you mind if I took out a life ins policy on you first though because they have a different view on the value of life.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
It has been hard for me to read through most of these posts. The complete disrespect I see for soldiers you criticize and label them as murderers and consider yourself better for whatever reason. Most of you have no clue what it is to be a soldier your entire education on the subject is probably learned from behind a Xbox controller. You really make me sick.

Soldiers are mechanics, firefighters, cooks, medics, lawyers, police, interpreters, radar technicians, truck drivers, the list goes on and on. There are soldiers building schools that the Tali-ban have bombed providing security so the children can attend. Grunts do that, your so called murderers. Every day soldiers go out and put there life on the line to clear roads of bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan mostly for the civilians benefit. While you are back at home safe and comfy.

I wonder how many of you have even been outside of your own country? Your view of the world is so limited and uneducated. I was in the military before 9/11 and reenlisted twice afterwords. It wasn't about killing them it was about keeping my brothers in arms alive. You ask any soldier worth his or her grit what there worst nightmare is and they will tell you its not dieing its screwing up and getting a teammate killed. Thats right we put others life before ours. Could any of you say the same?

There is a bond between those who have served there country a respect we have for each other we all earned the uniform we wore. We have pride in ourselves that you wouldn't understand.

I have a solution for those who are complaining about the wars we are in. Most of you should know at least I hope you do. Soldiers fight the wars that politicians (civys) create. I f you want a world devoid of war or at least as peaceful as possible. Relinquish your right to vote and never run for office. The problem isn't the soldiers the problem Ly's in the civilian world the problem Ly's in you. We have politicians that have no clue what war is let alone what it is to be a soldier and the people who put them in office are voters that the only requirement to vote is being over 18.

That is the biggest joke ever. Most of you probably don't even vote anyway because you don't know how much of a privilege it is. The laws should be changed people should have to earn the right to vote or hold office in other words serve there country first if that were to happen there wouldn't be a government so eager to send there military into war because they would have a understanding of what war is and that soldiers lives mean something.

This will never happen because most of you are entitled brats that will stay on your couches and be content in complaining about how the world is and never do a damn thing to change it.

edit on 17-11-2011 by Grimpachi because: spelling correction

Nobody is claiming to be better, don't invent accusations.
I have never owned an xbox or similer.

You the current armed forces of America and the UK are the terrorists, those in the invaded countries are fighting YOU because YOU are the terrorists.
YOU are not serving Your country, YOU are carrying out the murderous imperialistic agendas of a corperate scum.
YOU are doing a vast disservice to Your country and You are ignorant of what You are doing because of the brainwashing that makes You think there is an enemy to be fought .

I do not support You or any of the invaders of Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya, it is not at My request or need, get out.

Wake up murderers, You are been USED, YOU are cannon fodder .

WHO is planting the roadside bombs??????????????????
WHO makes PROFIT from WAR?????????????????????

YOU are not SERVING YOUR country, YOU are staining Your flag with BLOOD of children, shame on YOU all.
gravitor