Piercings and tattoos at work

its a kind of disrimination and should be recognised as such

reply to post by DaveNorris


No it shouldn't.

"Protected Classes" are things beyond a person's control. It is perfectly acceptable to "discriminate" based upon a person's actions. That is the whole point of an application, and interview, and references. We have to judge people and pick the best candidates. We also have to continually judge their performance and their asset or liability to our organizations. It is not discrimination to judge a person based on the choices they have made, how they present themselves, and how they react to orders from their supervisor. It is prudent to do exactly that, we absolutely must judge people on those bases.

Tattoos and piercings are not race, age, or handicap, they are just personal choices that a person makes, and a person must live with the repercussions.

Man this thread worries me about our future.

I blame Walmart for all the "customer is always right" and "return anything you want" crap that has changed the entire economy, so maybe I should blame the well-intentioned ADA and EEO acts for the sense of entitlement that all people have nowadays?

Having a tattoo or a piercing and being judged based on that appearance is not in the least bit comparable to being judged based on skin color, or gray hair, or being blind. Good god.

Hi!

I've never had any problems because of my tattoos. (Or my Dreadlocks)

I;m a teacher for 8 years now, educating teenagers between 12 - 18 y.o. I've got a japanese half sleeve, my wrists tattooed, and on my left leg a got this huge Ganesh with a psychelic background.

The kids love the tattoos and got them inspirated to draw and to do arts.

Teachers can be cool too, hahaha and i think a schoolteam should be a representation of today's society because i think it's good for children to see that not everyone is the same and they learn how to handle with people who are different (in looks or lifestyles).

Tattoos are part of you, people should accept and respect you the way you are. If not, take the pride to yourself and let them far behind you

Namaste!

reply to post by ResiiseR


I agree with you to a certain extent on the teacher thing. Teachers shouldn't be all stuffy.

But, I have to say, to many people, Dreads=Drugs. Do they drug test teachers in your school?

I can't think of any school subject that a person with your looks couldn't teach appropriately. Sounds like kind of the cool hippie look, and that seems fine for Math, English, History, Health, Science, it could work just about anywhere.

reply to post by getreadyalready


i disagree, body alterations are part of self expression, they are like personalities or hobbies. these things are also controllable. tattoos and peircings dont effect the way someone does their job, and to say they are uncapable because of their appearance is discrimination

what about overweight people. weight is something that can be changed, does that make it ok to say fat people cant do their jobs

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
Does anyone else have piercings, or tattoos, or both, that they get a hard time about in the work place? I do, and it makes me wonder why because they are very popular things to have. Why do we as a society allow this to happen? Given the popularity of these things, why is it still a requirement to not have them or cover them up at work? Are work places scared that they might lose out on some money if an employee offends one complete idiot? I feel like working involves emptying my personal "slate" of all personal expression, and becoming more of an object than a person. Does anyone else feel this way at their job?

No.
It always depends on the job.

Were you hired to represent the company to customers?
Do you interact in any way with customers or the public in the name of the company?


If so, you were hired to reflect the COMPANY'S Image, not your own.


Most jobs that do not require you to represnet your employer to customers, will not care about body modifications.

If you want to represnet a cpompany to the public, you already know you are expected to reflect the company image, over your own.

Sounds like you need to find a job where you do not have to prefess a company image.

reply to post by DaveNorris


Self-Expression is not a protected class, and it does affect the way a person does their job. If you are a salesperson, waiter, customer service rep, etc., and a small subset of your customers avoids you because of your appearance, then it is a problem that needs to be corrected or replaced.

And yes, weight is a current controversial issue in this subject area. Some say it is a health problem and thus protected, others say it is a lifestyle problem and should not be protected. I say, if it interferes with the work duties, and there is no simple adjustment that can be made to accomodate it, then the needs of the employer and the other employees outweigh the needs of the one person with an issue.

I have no problem with employers making concessions, wear long sleeves, put a bandaid over it, turn it inside out, put a person in an office close to the restroom, or on the ground floor, buy the software to enable a blind person, etc., etc. If simple concessions can be made, then great, but if not, then the employee needs to find a different career.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by DaveNorris

 

If you are a salesperson, waiter, customer service rep, etc., and a small subset of your customers avoids you because of your appearance, then it is a problem that needs to be corrected or replaced.

so, say an african man got a job at a posh golf club were 90% of the clientele avoided him because they were slightly racist, would it be acceptable to fire him.

if a gay man worked in a gym were 90% of the clientele were homophobic, would it be acceptable to fire him.

the answer is NO btw

Originally posted by DaveNorris
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

i disagree, body alterations are part of self expression, they are like personalities or hobbies. these things are also controllable. tattoos and peircings dont effect the way someone does their job, and to say they are uncapable because of their appearance is discrimination

what about overweight people. weight is something that can be changed, does that make it ok to say fat people cant do their jobs

edit on 17/11/2011 by DaveNorris because: added txt

Incorrect.
Image DOES influence bussiness. period.
First impressions mean alot whether you like it or not.

When you drop off your child at day-care, what if all the day care workers had skinheads, and swastika tats on their faces.. still trust em with your child?

Sorry, If my ivestment banker who managed my retirement fund, looked like Travis Barker, Id take my money elsewhere, and so would you.

( Just a note: I HAVE tats, and do NOT look like a banker..lol.. but do not work in a field where my appearance matters, and on the rare occasion when I do interact with customers, Due to my profession, my professional appearance suits the career.)




Would you shop at a grocery store if all the food was mixed about, unstraightened shelves, un-uniformed employess, that you cannot tell apart from customers.. etc..would you buy your food there?
Nope. You'd walk out because you would get the impression that the store was unprofessional.
Get real.



If workers do not take their job, and the company image seriously, neither will customers.

I had a Japanese doctor, once who had full sleeves, and large guage plugs in his ears.
he was an excellent doctor, one of the best Ive ever known.
Tats had nothing to do with performance.
However, his image DID cost him patients, as elderly people just did not take him seriously.
This is reality.
we trust our eyes, and experiences.

Originally posted by BadNinja68

Originally posted by DaveNorris
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

i disagree, body alterations are part of self expression, they are like personalities or hobbies. these things are also controllable. tattoos and peircings dont effect the way someone does their job, and to say they are uncapable because of their appearance is discrimination

what about overweight people. weight is something that can be changed, does that make it ok to say fat people cant do their jobs

edit on 17/11/2011 by DaveNorris because: added txt

Image DOES influence bussiness. period.
First impressions mean alot whether you like it or not.

i know it does, but it shouldnt

When you drop off your child at day-care, what if all the day care workers had skinheads, and swastika tats on their faces.. still trust em with your child?

having a skin head wouldnt bother me but the swastika isnt just a tattoo because of what it reprosents

Would you shop at a grocery store if all the food was mixed about, unstraightened shelves, un-uniformed employess, that you cannot tell apart from customers.. etc..would you buy your food there?
Nope. You'd walk out because you would get the impression that the store was unprofessional.
Get real.

actually, it depends. if they were cheaper or stocked something i wanted that no one else did then i would shop there.

If workers do not take their job, and the company image seriously, neither will customers.

if 2 people went for a job, one had tattoos, lots of experiance and qualifications and the other was tattoo free but had no experiance or education, which would you employ?


i know these things have an impact, im saying that they shouldnt

funny video....

anyway, there are petitions goin around to get body mod discrimination in the workplace recognised

link 1
link 2

Originally posted by DaveNorris

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by DaveNorris

 

If you are a salesperson, waiter, customer service rep, etc., and a small subset of your customers avoids you because of your appearance, then it is a problem that needs to be corrected or replaced.

so, say an african man got a job at a posh golf club were 90% of the clientele avoided him because they were slightly racist, would it be acceptable to fire him.

if a gay man worked in a gym were 90% of the clientele were homophobic, would it be acceptable to fire him.

the answer is NO btw

Once again, that is his race, and it is not his choice. There is a HUGE difference in judging somebody based on the way they were born, compared to judging them based upon a choice they made as an adult. That is exactlly why we have the ADA and EEO laws, but some people have taken those laws and turned them into spoiled brat entitlements. "I should be able to do whatever I want, whenever I want, and you have to accept me anyway." That attitude is total B.S.

reply to post by getreadyalready


so if the president of the united states went and got a tattoo and a nose ring you would no longer think he was the right man for the job (assuming you think he is the right man for the job now) even though this would not effect the way he ran the county

or maybe your wife changes her hair color from blonde to brunette, would you be filing for a divorce????

Originally posted by DaveNorris
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

so if the president of the united states went and got a tattoo and a nose ring you would no longer think he was the right man for the job (assuming you think he is the right man for the job now) even though this would not effect the way he ran the county

or maybe your wife changes her hair color from blonde to brunette, would you be filing for a divorce????

edit on 17/11/2011 by DaveNorris because: (no reason given)

In both cases, I wouldn't make any immediate rash decisions, but if it was the first evidence pointing toward a shift in their decision-making or personality, then the ultimate result might be a divorce or a new president, sure.

How would you feel if Obama showed up at a press conference tomorrow with a Mike Tyson tattoo down his face and neck, and a bull ring in his nose on the eve of some big summit? It would certainly cause me a lot of worry!!

A couple of years ago, I hired 24 people for some positions we had. It was about 6 weeks from the time of the interview to the first day of their training. One of my hires showed up 5 minutes late, in ripped jeans, blue hair, and some new piercings. I was immediately called to the office to explain, and I had no clue. She was perfectly normal when I interviewed her, her references were good, etc. So, they coached her on the dress code and punctuality, allowed her to keep the hair and piercings, but she struggled from day one. I was pulled in to help reform her into a decent employee or help justify her release. Getting to know her, she was the same person I had interviewed, but 6 weeks had changed her life. She had a new boyfriend, some new arrests, a new living arrangement, and she didn't really want to be working there, it was just temporary until her new boyfriend's tattoo parlor took off. Given her previous references, we dedicated about 3 months into training for her, but at some point we sat her down and reached the mutual agreement that this wasn't where she wanted to be at the time.

Yes, a change in appearance sometimes means a change in attitude, change in outlook, change in suitability for certain positions.

It could have gone the other way. Suppose she had told me her daughter was in beauty school, and she was the test dummy for a few months, but she really wanted to keep the job. She probably would still work there.

How would you feel if Obama showed up at a press conference tomorrow with a Mike Tyson tattoo down his face and neck, and a bull ring in his nose on the eve of some big summit? It would certainly cause me a lot of worry!!

im actually english so wouldnt be too bothered, but i wouldnt be that bothered if david cameron did it either, he might actually get some respect out of me for it.

Yes, a change in appearance sometimes means a change in attitude, change in outlook, change in suitability for certain positions.

key word being 'sometimes'


atm you probably think of me as someone covered in tattoos and peircings, i am not, i have a couple of small tattoos that are easily covered and no peircings, but i think any discrimination is bad i personally dont judge people on their appearance, i leave that untill i know a bit about them

reply to post by DaveNorris


Of course "sometimes" is relavent. I never said nobody with a piercing or tattoo should ever be hired, I only said it was a valid consideration that an employer has the right to base a decision on.

I have tattoos. I have had great employees with tattoos and we made concessions to protect their job. One guy had the small inconvenience of keeping a long sleeve shirt in his toolbox, and having to put it on anytime corporate folks came around.

But, I certainly do NOT support any kind of protected status for personal expression. A person is paid to tow the company line, portray the company image, and do the job required of them by the company. It doesn't have to be fair. They are paying a person to fill a position, and they have the right to pay whatever person they chose. If two perfectly equal candidates show up, and they chose the one that is a brunette, fine. IF they chose the blonde, fine. If they choose the 35 year old instead of the 49 year old fine. Protected classes are already clearly defined, and already intrusive enough, but necessary. We certainly do not need to go expanding those classes any further.

reply to post by DaveNorris

atm you probably think of me as someone covered in tattoos and peircings, i am not, i have a couple of small tattoos that are easily covered and no peircings, but i think any discrimination is bad i

I also have some significant tattoos. I also ride a Harley, and have a biker vest with a rebel flag, and a gadsden flag. I also own a pitbull, and love my guns, and cuss like a sailor, and although I'm white, I occasionally use ghetto slang around my ghetto friends, LOL! I don't do ANY of that at work!! And I don't do any of that around my co-workers, even if we are away from work.

personally dont judge people on their appearance, i leave that untill i know a bit about them

This is either a lie, or a very, very dangerous and anti-evolutionary sentiment. We all make snap judgements based on first impressions in relation to our previous experience. We have to. It is self-preservation. If you are walking down a dark street, and two men approach from different angles, you have to judge their appearance, their posture, their cadence, and their threat relavence and make a split-second decision on your next action. If you are running a convenience store, and several customers come in at the same time, you have to use your previous knowledge and experience to make snap decisions and decide who you will keep the closest eye upon.

Like it or not, race, clothing, physical attributes like impairment or bulky muscle all play a part in that. It is natural and important. Nobody can truthfully say they lived to their current age without ever judging somebody by their appearance.

Your first reaction might be wrong. You can correct that. You may have learned over the years that some things are misleading, that is fine. You may have learned that some things have become so common as to be ignored, and that is fine too, but you did see them, and judge them, like it or not.

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by haarvik

 

Where does the respect for my choices come into play? Does being the person in charge automatically get you respect from workers? Should it? Real respect is when you look at a person, and you know that they're better than you. Someone worth noticing, and someone worth considering. I do not see very many respectable people in our society. Just a lot of blow hards demanding conformity and worship. A respectable person, is not anyone that ever has to use the word respect, much less walk around thinking, are these people respecting me.

edit on 14-11-2011 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)

Hmmm...Well, you are talking about a person who is in a position of authority...they may have arrived there by way of expertise and knowledge about the job...or they may have been born into the position...

You can do as you wish...do not expect others to go along with it...as a matter of fact, most probably will not...

You seem to have a lot on the ball....start up your own niche in your chosen field and hire anyone you wish...as a matter of fact, make it the RULE...In order to work here you MUST have a set amount of visible tattoos and piercings...If you do not, then sorry, you cannot work here. Come back and let us know how that works out...I would be interested in hearing the results...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Having a tattoo or a piercing and being judged based on that appearance is not in the least bit comparable to being judged based on skin color, or gray hair, or being blind. Good god.

Get a tattoo based on your spiritual beliefs and repeat that statement. I've been discriminated against even by my own government because lower-lever bible-thumping officials know nothing about spiritual symbology and pull the whole "dangerous" act at even the sight of a pentagram in the flesh.

Tattoos show commitment. Only a dumbass gets a tattoo for fashion; the rest of us get them to show our membership to clubs that can be identified by sight, not by explaining ourselves to morons who don't get what our tattoos mean.

I'll admit, I severely reduced any chance for an establishment job by inking myself. But you know what? I feel much more existentially relevant than some square sitting in an office. It's too bad that discrimination against personal belief dictates day to day life, but we don't live in an utopian society. Those with real tattoos are not in the same class as those without, and I would rather be who I am now than to be some drone that society expects me to become.

As for those who think tattoos are all about "being cool", I think you're just afraid of a needle in your skin. Jump in, the water is fine

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Still, you are being judged on a "commitment" that you made, of your own freewill, as an adult, knowing the likely repercussions. You knew what a Pentagram meant to some people before you got it. It is in no way comparable to being judged based on race or disability.

That said, I do see how that particular tattoo might cause more heartache than most, but I'm sure you expected and actually enjoyed a certain level of that. When I am in my doo-rag, biker vest, and tats showing, I kind of enjoy the response it gets. I don't necessarily want just everybody walking up to talk to me, and I don't mind the other folks in a bar giving me a wide berth or second-guessing whether or not they want to tangle with me. But, I can just as easily put on a shirt and tie and fix my hair and go to work as a nerdy accountant and nobody would ever know. (Actually, that happened to me. I work for the government, but I also consult for some non-profits, and one day I was working on a Saturday, had a coat over my biker vest, and my gun in the back of my pants, and a lady walked in as I bent over the desk, and she almost fainted. It was hilarious. I showed her my whole outfit, and told her I carry the gun 100% of the time, but usually its under my arm and covered more completelly. She thought it was cool after that.)