Eve’s Apple

Originally posted by jeramie

Originally posted by GreenFurnNW
Please believe in GOD, but not the bible. Too much BS has been pasted down for generations, and most of the stuff in it is made up!

edit on 12-11-2011 by GreenFurnNW because: edit

Yes, too much BS has been pasted down for generations.

The Bible says people will not believe in the true Word of God in the last days:

2 Timothy 4:3-4(KJV)
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

However, the Bible has been declared by God to be perfect. Both the Old and the New Testaments are the two witnesses of Revelation. To learn about it, please click the following link: www.remnantofgod.org...

As far as i'm aware the ONLY thing that God wrote was the ten commandments and not the bible, it was man, human men, who wrote the bible and as human are not perfect (not even close) the bible should be taken with a pinch of salt.

The FACT that God NEVER wrote the bible which CAN'T be seen as perfect because it was wrote by man never seems to be acknowledged or even discussed, why is this?

For me the bible is just a collection of various experiences written down by man to probably give ideas on how to live a more peaceful life but the bible had been edited so many times over the last 2000 years can anyone really say that it's 'perfect'?

Forgive me but i'm just not that gullible.

reply to post by Infrasilent


it is amazing how u love to invent anything that u could use to keep ur reality out of all

if it is such sin for ur god to touch anything he did, then he could have restricted conscious in animals instead of increasing it

it is amazing how u far u take seriously ur miserable eyes perspective in seeing an apple, how that is knowledge of any and from what insolence to least of intelligence are u calling it a threat

merde sure it would have been better to stay animals, who decided otherwise and why

reply to post by absolutely


if u mean ur innocence right then defend others rights, how r u right in justifying all guilt
or at least say clearly of urself what r u guilty about, so we could get a glimse of what ur means

reply to post by absolutely


This is the part where I say: DUDE. What are you talking about?

This isn't my religion. It's merely what I think the STORY represents. I honestly don't see what is so far-fetched about that interpretation, and it doesn't necessarily mean I agree. Sorry if it rubs you the wrong way.

reply to post by 1littlewolf

AND WHEN YOUR LORD SAID TO THE ANGELS: `I WILL CREATE A VICEROY ON THE EARTH'. THEY SAID: `WILL YOU PUT THERE ONE WHO WILL DO EVIL, AND SHED BLOOD?' (THE CREATURES THAT LIVED ON THE EARTH BEFORE MAN; MISUSED THEIR EMOTIONAL NATURE, WHICH RESULTED IN DOING EVIL, MISCHIEF AND SHEDDING BLOOD! IF THE AIM IS TO WORSHIP OUR LORD THEN) WE CELEBRATE YOUR PRAISE AND SANCTIFY YOU. HE SAID: `I KNOW WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW.'

AND HE TAUGHT ADAM THE NAMES, ALL OF THEM; (THE NAMES AND INNER NATURE AND QUALITIES OF ALL THINGS) THEN HE PRESENTED THEM UNTO THE ANGELES, AND SAID: `TELL ME THE NAMES OF THESE IF YOU ARE RIGHT.'

THEY SAID:= `GLORY TO YOU! WE HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE, SAVE WHAT YOU HAVE TAUGHT US. SURELY YOU ARE THE ALL-KNOWING THE ALL-WISE.'

HE SAID: `O, ADAM! INFORM THEM OF THEIR NAME'S, AND WHEN HE INFORMED THEM OF THEIR NAMES; HE SAID: `DID I NOT TELL YOU THAT I KNOW THE UNSEEN THINGS OF THE SKIES AND EARTH? AND I KNOW ALL THAT YOU HIDE AND ALL THAT YOU REVEAL?

AND WHEN WE SAID TO THE ANGELS: ``PROSTRATE YOURSELVES BEFORE ADAM.'' THEY ALL PROSTRATED THEMSELVES, EXCEPT SATAN, WHO REFUSED AND BECAME PROUD AND BECAME OF THE UNBELIEVER.

AND WE SAID: ``O, ADAM! DWELL YOU AND YOUR WIFE IN THE GARDEN, AND EAT OF THE BOUNTIFUL THINGS THEREIN WHEREVER YOU WISH BUT APPROACH NOT THIS TREE, LEST YOU BE OF THE TRANSGRESSORS.''

THEN SATAN CAUSED THEM TO SLIP THEREFROM, AND BROUGHT THEM OUT OF THAT THEY WERE IN, (OUT OF THE GARDEN OF BLISS) AND WE SAID: ``GET YOU ALL DOWN, SOME OF YOU ENEMIES TO SOME OTHER. AND ON EARTH WILL BE YOUR DWELLING-PLACE, AND YOUR MEANS OF LIVELIHOOD FOR A TIME BEING.

2-Al baqara (the cow) : 30-36

In Islam point of view , they were mislead by Eblis. There is no point that Eve tempted Adam to approach the forbidden tree.

Materialists run from one tree to another , they just change their names , but there is one thing in common.

They don't believe in soul , god , judgment day.

Here it is for all the Materialists :

I swear by the Day of Resurrection

And I swear by the reproaching soul

Does man think that We will not assemble his bones?

Yes. [We are] Able [even] to proportion his fingertips.

But man desires to continue in sin

Al-qiamah (the judgement day)

Additional source about materialism and the new sects :

Materialism

reply to post by nuttin4U

Maybe, Eve gave Adam oral sex

Maybe Adam needed that to be fruitful and multiply?

Eve brought Adam to his knees!

Yet, according to you it was the other way around.

Originally posted by Infrasilent
I think the story of Adam and Eve is simpler than most believe.

I think it is literally a cautionary tale about knowledge.

Knowledge, as we know it in real life, is essentially an endless branching of ideas-- that is-- it's a tree.

The specific fruit is not important. The point is we ate of the fruit of knowledge.

Humans were not supposed to "eat" of knowledge because this would remove us from the "perfect" environment God created (or we evolved to fit perfectly within-- however you like to see it.)

Basically, Earth is Eden. We destroyed Eden when we gained knowledge, because this knowledge caused us to alter the perfect balance that we once enjoyed.

The instant we ate of knowledge, we could no longer bask in blissful ignorance. We ceased to be simple animals that could derive enjoyment from our mere existence, and took upon ourselves the ability to create, to shape, and to destroy-- and we assumed all responsibilities contained therein.

Control of the Earth became mainly ours at that point, and so we became our primary guardians-- a job that we tend to muddle through with mixed success, and that tends to bring us suffering due to our inherent imperfections as physical beings. EVERYONE is tormented by their limited physical and mental capacity-- because we endeavor to replace what was lost-- God's grace-- with our own grace-- and this is either very difficult or impossible. Even after we've satisfied all of our basic needs, our thirst for knowledge, for God-like qualities-- will remain insatiable. This is our curse.


I should also add that I think this story sounds VERY similar to prometheus (he's the snake) bringing the Greeks fire-- and probably many other creation stories. Which begs the question-- How did we come to such similar conclusions? Perhaps all humans actually think much alike-- and these stories are reflections of our inner angst concerning the "progress" of our societies throughout the ages.

edit on 13-11-2011 by Infrasilent because: Remembered to explain the apple specifically.

I wonder if it was really knowledge that we gained or the knowledge was taken away. We did go into a pretty dark unknowing state from there, however we were given "free will" while prior to that, in Eden as in the spiritual worlds, there is no "free will" just the will of God which is all good and fine with everyone. However we became the "free will" experiment.

reply to post by blazenresearcher


what free will were u having exactly? u mean that god was meaning adam as eternal being before eating the apple? or do u mean that adam had freedom to eat everything except the apple as being free eater will? do u mean will is to eat? or do u mean freedom is to b made ?

It never says the the fruit was an apple.
It was a fruit, a bearing tree that offered the food of the knowledge of good and evil.

First of all the Word of God is true, Its unchanging, undeniable and unfailing, Because Love never fails, and God is love; Therefore agape never fails.

1 John 4:8
"For he who knoweth not love, knoweth not God, for God is love".

Re-post please read

Okay peeps,

Everyone seems to be getting to caught up with the biblical analogy and less with what I actually intended, which is the idea that an imperfection (or more accurately, a 'perturbation in absolute order) created the Universe we know today.

Now I don't want to impinge on anyones freedom to discuss whatever the hell they want (and many of the most interesting conversations at ATS come when people seem to go off on a tangent), but when you have 3 pages of posts and only two of them remotely close to the concept you're trying to convey, it can get a little frustrating.

Not that I'm blaming anyone. I've been on here long enough now I should have realised as soon as any hint of the Bible is mentioned everyone here gets their panties in a twist and the thread soon gets hijacked by Atheists and Christian Fundamentalists. Sorry for the confusion.

This is the last time I ever use a biblical metaphor to try and define a metaphysical concept

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
It never says the the fruit was an apple.
It was a fruit, a bearing tree that offered the food of the knowledge of good and evil.

As mentioned in the OP, I'll think you find most biblical scholars agree it was some sort of magical pomegranate tree. Popular culture seems to be caught up with the idea of an apple, so that's the one I've gone with...

hasatan is a total tool.

reply to post by 1littlewolf


How can the universe have been created? How can it be anything other than eternal? The very concept of the universe describes the "one space" by which we are all surrounded. Matter, energy, and other things might have arisen inside it, but I think unto itself it must be eternal. From a conceptual standpoint, it is nothing more than the largest bubble in a venn diagram-- everything else that exists fits within it. I think to speak of the creation of the universe is to deny the concept of a universe. Therefore, the universe was not created through perfection or imperfection, it merely exists.

Originally posted by Infrasilent
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

How can the universe have been created? How can it be anything other than eternal? The very concept of the universe describes the "one space" by which we are all surrounded. Matter, energy, and other things might have arisen inside it, but I think unto itself it must be eternal. From a conceptual standpoint, it is nothing more than the largest bubble in a venn diagram-- everything else that exists fits within it. I think to speak of the creation of the universe is to deny the concept of a universe. Therefore, the universe was not created through perfection or imperfection, it merely exists.

As I've said above, I probably shouldn't have used the word perfection or imperfection. I realise now that they're a little misleading. The use of biblical analogy is not something I'll be doing again in hurry either.

EDIT: I'm gonna put this in bold so hopefully everyone can see it

Let me spell it out to you. ......Now I'm gonna make the assumption you believe the big bang happened, and I'll make the same assumption you believe the universe is expanding at an even rate.

Now imagine if you can the universe prior to the big bang. Essentially a homogenous singularity of energy, space and time. And then boom, it imploded in on itself. At that moment everything was the same, and I would assume imploding inwards evenly from all sides with the same amount of energy.

In this situation you would assume that the resultant Universe would be simply be filled with an even arrangement of regularly spaced hydrogen atoms. As everything is the same distance apart (due the assumtion I make in the paragraph above), gravity would be acting on each particle exactly the same, so they should not ever clump together in the form of planets and stars and other matter.

But, instead of seeing this orderly matrix of atoms, we see the universe that we know and love today; discrete bundles of complex matter and energy forms. This says to me that this initial big bang was not even, but that somewhere within it there was an irregularity, a perturbation to the perfect order which was in place before the big bang occured.

And what I'm trying to do here is explore the reasons how this may have occurred.....

So that's the scientific part of it.

From a metaphysical point of view this irregularity could be the First Cause. Maybe this irregularity, this perturbation in the cosmic order of all, was the Source becoming conscious. Or maybe this imperfection is the reason the 1st consciousness initiated the Big Bang in the first place. This could be a thought that this consciousness had, maybe along the lines of ‘What am I’.

reply to post by 1littlewolf


Ok... I get what you're asking.

Assuming all that you stated above, it does appear that there was some type of imperfection in the singularity that unbalanced the forces that should normally hold everything as a giant uniform, 3D "matrix" of hydrogen atoms. And I suppose that consciousness, like the elements we are familiar with, may not have existed without this disturbance. Basically, the universe as you've assumed it could not exist without an imbalance.

I think-- if this is true-- that the singularity itself was a perfectly round explosion, but that the particles that were expelled did not always behave exactly as we would expect. This is FAR over my head, but aren't the behaviors of basic particles given by statistical approximation in some fields of physics? For example 9/10 they behave as we would expect from a Newtonian perspective, but that 10th time they do something different? It would only take one particle out of the untold number to behave differently to begin the chaotic process that eventually formed all that we are familiar with. Perhaps if we could locate those particles we could build something really interesting.

Originally posted by Infrasilent
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

Ok... I THINK I get what you're asking. But you can't fault everyone for grasping at straws here. You've made a great deal of assumptions, and you can't expect that everyone will automatically understand that this is an "inside the box" sort of question.

Assuming all that you stated above, it does appear that there was some type of imperfection in the singularity that unbalanced the forces that should normally hold everything as a giant uniform, 3D "matrix" of hydrogen atoms. And I suppose that consciousness, like the elements we are familiar with, may not have existed without this disturbance. Basically, the universe as you've assumed it could not exist without imbalance.

Why are you so interested in the answer to a closed-ended question?

Guess my thinking jumped out of the box a little too far for everyone else to grasp my point. Combining big bang theory with metaphors from genesis along with new age ideas of universal consciousness was definitley a bit much.

But on the whole the only assumptions I've made is that the big bang occured and there is a universal consciousness. Everything else I've speculated is really where I wanted others to either help me clarify, or throw in a few ideas of their own.

Not sure what you mean by a close-ended question as I wasn't interested people saying either yes or no to my theory. Was simply interested in the the discussion of the pro's and con's of it or if anyone else had similar ideas.



In case anyone's interested I dug a little deeper and found out the scientific side of this question can be answered by the Quantum Uncertainty Principle. Don't ask me what it means yet though, still gotta read up on it.

reply to post by 1littlewolf


I edited my post. Thought I could make the response a little better.

reply to post by Infrasilent


what is amazing is to witness how far u directly despise the truth, u talk about anything as if it is random stupid reactions to something, giving u the opportunity to stand above it as conscious to correct whatever went wrong and create smthg different from

i cant understand how u r given to speak

In the kabbalah Adam is a simbolic figure of the creator, it knew how to create light/energy and wanted to share it, so he created eve, the receiver of light.
They were happy for some time but then eve got conscious of its situation, she didn't do anything do deserve this light, she didnt know how to create it, she was dependent of the light of Adam. So she wanted to be independent, wanted to learn how to create light and stop being dependent on the light of the creator. She wanted to be like the creator.
And then... BIG BANG, here we are, learning out to create light from darkness!

reply to post by Manula


that is an abject lie use, big bang exist much before adam could ever been and u know that well

bigbang is even before god

adam is simply god will to rise animals to his worship

reply to post by absolutely


and plz enlighten me how do u create light from darkness?