US marines to set up in Darwin, Australia

reply to post by Maxmars


Well said maxmars. private military contractors are making billions on defense at the expense of tax payer money.... we were warned of the military industrial complex, but nobody listened.

Originally posted by Arielmoon
reply to post by steveknows

 

I found one of those under the bbq cover this week, lucky I shook it first. Had to wack it with me thong.

I almost spit my drink out when I read this - I truly hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I'm from America, and what you just wrote made it sound like you had to wack the spider with your underwear. Which I would have done were it the only thing handily available.

I know this is off-topic and I'm sorry if I offended. It just struck me as hilarious and made me wonder if I've ever typed something that made someone from a different country almost spit out their drink.

Originally posted by Arielmoon
reply to post by steveknows

 

I found one of those under the bbq cover this week, lucky I shook it first. Had to wack it with me thong. I hope she hasnt got any friends.

Sneaky little buggers. I was helping a mate build a retaining wall for his driveway years ago in the Gong. I had the shovel above by head clearing foiliage as I was down in the dig. One hit me right on the chest then on to the gound. I'm not sure but I think I might have screamed like a girl.

Originally posted by followingpythagoras

Originally posted by Arielmoon
reply to post by steveknows

 

I found one of those under the bbq cover this week, lucky I shook it first. Had to wack it with me thong.

I almost spit my drink out when I read this - I truly hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I'm from America, and what you just wrote made it sound like you had to wack the spider with your underwear. Which I would have done were it the only thing handily available.

I know this is off-topic and I'm sorry if I offended. It just struck me as hilarious and made me wonder if I've ever typed something that made someone from a different country almost spit out their drink.

A thong is a flip flop. He probably wouldn't have wanted to touch his underwear after finding that thing in his bbq anyway

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by milkyway12
Because , when the Chinese strike. You have a defensive wall that encases them. So all your forces arnt killed in one strike. They can get the hell out of dodge , or deploy very rapidly from different areas. So they have to focus on more than one area.

China is about containment. Its not about invading. if we go to war with China , it will be a Naval / Air war , as invading would get many people killed. We would bomb them back to the stone age. The Marines are there if they decide to use infantry to try and push their way across the ocean , and island hop.

Marines can slow them down.

edit on 04/30/2011 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

Excellent analysis!

Its because of scenarios like this,That America is choosing its positions,and Australia is helping........

There is a considerable body of evidence, including the views of distinguished historians, senior Japanese Navy officers, and the official history of Japan's involvement in World War II, to support a conclusion that the Japanese intended to become the masters of Australia in 1942, either by (a) invasion of northern Australia and severing Australia's lifeline to the United States, or (b) severing Australia's lifeline to the United States and then pressuring Australia into surrender to Japan.

THE JAPANESE PLANNED TO COMPEL AUSTRALIA'S SURRENDER IN 1942

I smell World War in the wind........................

You forgot to mention that Japan gave up the idea of invading Australia not long after its entry into the war because it would have gone broke trying. The country was just to big for them to invade.

reply to post by steveknows


Agreed. I would probably involintarily shed my underwear if I found one of those!!
I have nothing but good thoughts about Australia. If they're willing to have some Marines around then all I have to say is thanks.

Originally posted by steveknows



You forgot to mention that Japan gave up the idea of invading Australia not long after its entry into the war because it would have gone broke trying. The country was just to big for them to invade.

Japan couldnt have withstood the massive economic,and oil driven Logistics,to perpetrate it,but the plans were in the works. I also think it wouldnt have been a whole country invasion,key points,and shipping routs to certain country's...........


Times have Changed my friend. I think China is a different Country,then Japan.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by steveknows



You forgot to mention that Japan gave up the idea of invading Australia not long after its entry into the war because it would have gone broke trying. The country was just to big for them to invade.

Japan couldnt have withstood the massive economic,and oil driven Logistics,to perpetrate it,but the plans were in the works. I also think it wouldnt have been a whole country invasion,key points,and shipping routs to certain country's...........


Times have Changed my friend. I think China is a different Country,then Japan.

edit on 11-11-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

And the key points in shipping routes has been forseen and taken into account. In fact it's been viewed that any potential enemy would try to lay mines in shipping channels which will only go off when they come in contact with a magnetic signature of Australian bulk carriers (every ship in the world has its own magnetic signature from when it was made) and that they would try to sink our carriers in our harbour channels to block them.

But make no mistake. We might not hear about the counter mesaures or see anything to do with it on a day to day basis but it's always being watched.

Australia is a maritime nation and the strategist know how hard it is to invade a large country surrounded by ocean and believe me it's been planned for.

Oh I know china is a different story but logistic problem are still logistic problems. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a fight but it wouldn't be all that easy.

China has man power and I'll say perhaps a lesser view on the value of life but it still needs to move them and an expansionist move from china would without doubt bring the world to war again.

Australia is very much set up like Russia was in as much as there's a great distance between what would be the front line and the industries of war. It's not by accident that combat operational bases are up north and the training bases and logistics are down south. Australian defence industries are all down south. Most of the major civilian industries which would tool up for war are down south and between those two point is the 6th largest counrty in the world. You could literaly let of a nuke in the centre and there would be no long term affects for the areas which are inhabited, not that you would. Though they did with the A bomb tests.

Also it would be very hard to water an invasion army on the dryest inhabited continent in the world with a hostile population. Not that there'd be much of a population in the areas that the enemy landed as there's been plans in place since before WW2 to move the population down south in time of invasion which have been updated with population growth.

I think that china's move would be to invade or islolate the smaller countries we trade with as does the U.S. I think that's why Australia and the U.S have something going here. I think it will be a trade war with periods of combat. Or China is if anything about to play its hand at being "the" superpower. But I think China is going to make the mistake that Napoleon, Hitler and Hirohito did.

Originally posted by JMech
reply to post by steveknows

 

Agreed. I would probably involintarily shed my underwear if I found one of those!!
I have nothing but good thoughts about Australia. If they're willing to have some Marines around then all I have to say is thanks.

Australia and the U.S have a long history as solid allies and I think it would take an unimagined shift in reality to change that. I think that the alliance goes beyond politics and strategy. I think that even if the powers that be changed their views on the mutual commitment between the two nations that popular public opinion on both sides
would give the powers the be cause to second guess their actions.

reply to post by steveknows


My Dad served in the Marines in Vietnam so I may be a bit biased , but the're good people.

It may come as somewhat of a surprise, but it wouldn't be the first time that US forces have been based in Darwin, we had B52 and lots of them and Awacks, based in Darwin for quite a few years, flying in out every day, and we have a relatively new Air force base not far way, that contains some logistical fighter F18 of our own, we have never been a big population, and would sooner have a beer with you, than start war with you.

However as friendly as we are, we can be, feisty and very resourceful, and we have coped flack for supporting the US, when others were reluctant, to do so, however we have broad shoulders for our allies, and that's,all of them, and to this,one would hope that, none of them would be talking or considering starting any wars on our door step, so to speak, or in fact do any Sabre rattling, as a guest on our shores.

It could be said, any deployment on a full time bases over and above our regular invitation, extended to your marines, to Shoal Water Bay for regular training and maneuvers, runs and goes quiet good, and Darwin is a fairly lay back, relaxed environment and a great place for perhaps bomb weary troops, to just see some where different where your not worried every five minutes about IUDs and the like, it could also be seen, as the USA having an eye upon the very large investments that they do have in Australia, as do the Chinese, as its one of the very few places in the world that has an open policy for land and resource ownership that doesn't require some percentage of local ownership, and its over and above a great place to visit, or live, please feel free to come and see for your self

It isn't just America concerned about China. Japan comes to mind as well. And Vietnam, although I never thought I would see the day they wanted to engage in joint naval exercises with the US.

China consumes VAST amounts of natural resources, and to be frank, I wouldn't put it past them to seize islands or territories of their neighbors if they see fit to do so.

Also, as a former US Marine, I know the US and Australia have always been close allies through many conflicts.

Regardless of whether there were Marines stationed at Darwin, the US would never tolerate any shenanigans out of China towards our Australian allies, if they ever got the idea.

reply to post by steveknows

You forgot to mention that Japan gave up the idea of invading Australia not long after its entry into the war because it would have gone broke trying. The country was just to big for them to invade.

Never heard that before. I doubt that it was only a "too big" problem, note also that Australia had less population at the time and was not as Industrialized. I think that they just couldn't militarily get a foothold there and properly defend and make use of it after taking it over (mostly it was not worth the trouble and the logistics).

When SH** it the fan with China, if a conventional war a all, I doubt it, we will see activity in Korea and Taiwan the next day. My view is that China will work to cause the economical and political collapse of the USA before it choses to make any moves in the open.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by steveknows

 

You forgot to mention that Japan gave up the idea of invading Australia not long after its entry into the war because it would have gone broke trying. The country was just to big for them to invade.

Never heard that before. I doubt that it was only a "too big" problem, note also that Australia had less population at the time and was not as Industrialized. I think that they just couldn't militarily get a foothold there and properly defend and make use of it after taking it over (mostly it was not worth the trouble and the logistics).

When SH** it the fan with China, if a conventional war a all, I doubt it, we will see activity in Korea and Taiwan the next day. My view is that China will work to cause the economical and political collapse of the USA before it choses to make any moves in the open.

edit on 12-11-2011 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)

AS to any collapse, economically and or politically of the USA, its my understanding, that is the very last thing China would want to see, as it is the USA that is still the powerhouse of China's industrial economy and advancement,

AS the USA is China's largest customer, and it has over time been supporting the US dollar, as that's where its own economy lies , so much so, it could be said that if the US went down so will China follow,

In any case, If I can go of the subject for a moment, I do think there is a war brewing, but it will not be between adversaries, and to this while it may be, in some peoples minds, thought as climate change, I see and know that its not change, its a climate train, and its going in only one direction, and escalating, and that its underling cause has been undiagnosed , and to this I say loud and clear, its my belief that its driven via primordial magnets, being the Magnetosphere decline, that is causing the planets destabilization, Earth quakes, wild typhoons and Tornadoes , Cyclones, and if it is the case, then as far as any war, it will be ALL HANDS ON DECK AND TO THE PUMP

reply to post by bulla


To comment on that. I goto alot of factories every week. Rarely I see stuff going to America,
Main markets are now Eastern Europe, Russia, Ukraine, South America, Middle east.
So I don't think China is worried too much about America's buying power, now more and more US companies are pullout out of China and setting up in America again.
Manufacturing here as already peaked and is starting to downfall. CPI here is unreal, so there is alot of internal problems like their inner provinces, I don't think they have time to deal with any outsiders, the society has awoken and starting to question thanks to the vast boom of the internet.

I don't think China will want to pose any threat to anyone, but if provoked it will, as I said before it's all about keeping face, They won't compromise.

A thong is a flip flop. He probably wouldn't have wanted to touch his underwear after finding that thing in his bbq anyway

edit on 11-11-2011 by steveknows because: typo

OH - a flip flop! *smacking hand to forehead*
Well that makes much more sense... The only thing I could think of was that "thong" meant "tongs" in Australia. And let me just add that I do not like spiders - and if I had to worry about something that looked as horrifying as that residing anywhere close to my home - it wouldn't be just my underwear that needed changing!

ok - back on topic.

While I am always struck by the U.S. maneuvers I find out about after the fact, it is the maneuvers that attention is purposely called to before-hand that intrigue me the most. I'll be interested to see if there ever comes a definitive "Ah Ha - so that's why they went there" moment.

It's so frustratingly hard for me to tell exactly where things are going these days. I keep waiting for any scrap of information that's going to make everything that's happening in the world today make more sense.

I'll add this one to my mental pile of scraps and keep pondering....

Originally posted by crackerjack


Well just as you thought America couldn't stretch it's arms anymore, here we have them coming to Australia using a ADF base for marine rotation.
I thought they already had bases in South Korea and Japan ?
I know the Chinese are getting it on navel wise, with it's new experimental soviet era carrier and their numbers of subs.

Can someone explain to me the strategic advantages that the US would have by doing this all in response to China ? I think that America should still be rolling back, or placing more of a presence say Taiwan if they really want to piss China off.

Kinda makes Australia look bad by it's largest resource buyer.

www.news.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)

You obviously can't comprehend what you read.

They aren't setting up a new base in Australia. They aren't permanently stationing troops here.

What they will be doing is they will be expanding facilities at an Australian Army base in Darwin to accommodate the US Marine Corps who will be rotated through this base to other places in the Asia Pacific region. Their stay at the base in Australia wont be a prolonged stay, it will be short.

What they will base here in Australia at this base will be their hardware and equipment.

The whole point of this is to have troops and equipment pre-positioned around the region ready to go if and when # hits the fan with China.
It is a message to China that it's challenges wont go unanswered.

Originally they were going to setup an entire new base for the US Marines, which would have been massive because it would have had facilities for fighter aircraft, ships, ground vehicles and soldiers. The whole lot.
But to make it politically feasible in Australia, they decided to just expand an Aussie base instead of building a new one, and just "rotate" Marines in and out.

But the underlying message is still the same.

China is making challenges to US and allied supremacy in the region. The USA and allies are answering.

reply to post by crackerjack

It would also be worth noting, that trade into Eastern Europe and the other countries by China, while being some what, of a diversion, to maintain there status, and to keep there wheels of industry, from any knee jerk reaction, due to the down turn in there traditional trading partners, that this also has a compounding effect, as those countries are not quarantined from this world decline, and far from it, and to this, if things don't take on a more sobering attitude, that it has the potential to destabilize the entire worlds economy, as it implodes.

This then, as I have inter-mated that I believe the climate situation may well overrun all, economic concerns, and in its self bring Industrial manufacturing, to a stand still, as everyone trys to deal with there own internal situations,in regards to primordial eruptions volcanic and the increasing Quake and seismic activity, combined with massive storms and flooding, that will cause power outs and damage to infrastructure, such as roads, power stations, I cannot myself, overstate this issue enough, as I see it on a massive inclining scale, that at present is being totally ignored, with perhaps the mistaken belief, that it will all go away, it is not a speed bump, it is a climate train,

reply to post by bulla

AS to any collapse, economically and or politically of the USA, its my understanding, that is the very last thing China would want to see, as it is the USA that is still the powerhouse of China's industrial economy and advancement,

AS the USA is China's largest customer, and it has over time been supporting the US dollar, as that's where its own economy lies , so much so, it could be said that if the US went down so will China follow,

This is clearly not based in observing reality. West wars on Iraq, West rebuild Iraq, West wars on Libya West rebuild Libya. A deconstruction of the USA by China would remove the opposition to China to take control of large parts of the world, if the USA was unable to counteract an attack on Taiwan and South Korea the next major target would be Japan...

You also have to consider that lately China has been focusing in creating and developing its internal Economy, last numbers have demonstrated a declared decline in the dependence of exports. Having control and the capacity to acquire most part of Asia there will not be a problem in regards to keeping a viable market (if nuclear conflict can be avoided), even Europe at the stage it is would remain mostly silent, it can't afford doing otherwise (and unrest in the USA would spread to the UK and have an impact in Europe).

So in case of a war if nuclear options can be avoided, the Economical viability of China wouldn't be at risk. Not more than any one else. One has also to consider demographics, China's population is going to start a huge contraction very soon so an unprecedented window of opportunity is not only made viable by China's impact in the world economy but also by the global recession (and national debt crisis) originated in the USA.

The European Union is China’s largest export market. China has already invested €10 billion in the Greek shipping industry. In Hungary, the Huawei telecom equipment maker is constructing a logistics center for the European market.(Hungary is no part of the EU). Some of the conditions to help Europe in dealing with the national debt crisis (Europe is more than the EU) is the removal of the arms import ban that is in place, support for the yuan on the IMF and support in the World Trade Organization.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by steveknows

 

You forgot to mention that Japan gave up the idea of invading Australia not long after its entry into the war because it would have gone broke trying. The country was just to big for them to invade.

Never heard that before. I doubt that it was only a "too big" problem, note also that Australia had less population at the time and was not as Industrialized. I think that they just couldn't militarily get a foothold there and properly defend and make use of it after taking it over (mostly it was not worth the trouble and the logistics).

When SH** it the fan with China, if a conventional war a all, I doubt it, we will see activity in Korea and Taiwan the next day. My view is that China will work to cause the economical and political collapse of the USA before it choses to make any moves in the open.

edit on 12-11-2011 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)

WTF Was not industrialised? man what books have you been reading? We've had industry since there's been industry.

You can think all you want as you're obviously not well informed. Nothing you've said is true. It's not researched a single little bit.

In the 1800's Sydney council made a law that there had to be hight restrictions on buildings so that we didn't make the same mistake as the U.S, Europe and England. While your cities were over populated with unemployed because all industry at the time was one floor on top of the other and slums were growing. Our industry was moving out of the city areas and we avoided slums. That law was followed by other councils around the country and the restriction wasn't removed until the 1950's. Australia has always been a wealthy country with up to date industry it's only been smaller due the the population size.

Just one example is BHP. The Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited, BHP Co. Ltd., BHP A global mining, oil and gas company. It was incorporated in 1885.

It is the world's largest mining company measured by revenue

Your statement is nothing more than a guess due to your perception nd it is all so wrong. Perhaps you should start reading books.