The Tide is Turning

reply to post by ModernAcademia

I'm sure you didn't want a zombie thread where people talk about how they feel about the passion of protesters and not the protests themselves.

Obviously you didn't read the opening post. That's exactly what I'm looking for, peoples feelings on social unrest and the willingness to try to change things. Not the people themselves. Not the reasons for their protests.

Merely the fact that in this day and age, some people are willing to put themselves out there for a cause.

So, instead of desperately trying to keep this ontopic, how about this.

What would YOU be willing to protest over?

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

You win. I submit. I will spend the rest of my time lurking at ATS, possibly posting comments here and there, but congratulations, you've managed to push another user away from ATS. And yes, I did alert the mods to the off topic posts. What happens? nothing. Oh, but If I go into one of the OWS hate threads and try to inject reason, I get a warning and a post removal. It's over. ATS has failed, no objective discussion on any subject can take place.

Well, I will follow your way of thinking (only on this post though). I’ll give you a star even though you failed in your objective and I disagree with your premise. That’s the right thing to do in America today, right? Reward everyone, even when they lose or give up. It was your intention that really matters, not your actual results, right?

reply to post by SLAYER69

Opposite of what? YOUR views?

No the opposite of what you said.

reply to post by seabag

Well, I will follow your way of thinking (only on this post though). I’ll give you a star even though you failed in your objective and I disagree with your premise. That’s the right thing to do in America today, right? Reward everyone, even when they lose or give up.

What objective was that? Trying to get an honest opinion without partisan bickering? It was working until you cats showed up, as usual. But at least you answered the question, others refuse and are merely aiming to derail what they perceive as another pro-ows thread. Keep your stars, I only wanted your opinion, you actually provided it, so kudos to you.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
See this is why I started the thread the way I did. Because I'd like to have a discussion on the social aspects of people willing to march in the streets and protest for what they believe.

I clearly said this isn't about OWS and their motives or actions, it's a reflection on the fact that, in 2011, people of all walks of life are willing to march and fight for what they think is right.

Can you give a few examples of what type of comments you would liked to have seen from people who do not agree with OWS?

If this thread was intended only for pro-OWS'ers to speak how they feel then that's fine, I didnt' know.

But if it wasn't, can you give an example of a few posts you would like to see, perhaps i'm not grasping how you wanted to delimit topic/issues.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
This is it. close the thread mods, it's impossible to have an objective discussion about anything with people continually derailing and going off topic.

You win. I submit. I will spend the rest of my time lurking at ATS, possibly posting comments here and there, but congratulations, you've managed to push another user away from ATS.

And yes, I did alert the mods to the off topic posts. What happens? nothing. Oh, but If I go into one of the OWS hate threads and try to inject reason, I get a warning and a post removal.

It's over. ATS has failed, no objective discussion on any subject can take place.

Calm down, have patience
If the thread didn't go where you wanted to perhaps that can be rectified
I just want to know how exactly you wanted it to go

because you might not have been clear on that despite you most likely thinking you were crystal clear

reply to post by SLAYER69


Listen, you obviously have a reading comprehension issue. I'm not asking you to support OWS. I'm not asking you IF you support OWS.

I'm asking if people can at least respect other people willing to protest for a cause they believe in.

Simple as that, you can try to nit pick and be a dick, it doesn't matter, none of what you are saying makes any sense.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


It's not nit picking.

Step down off that high horse of self importance and stop with the assumptions.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

If this thread was intended only for pro-OWS'ers to speak how they feel then that's fine, I didnt' know. But if it wasn't, can you give an example of a few posts you would like to see, perhaps i'm not grasping how you wanted to delimit topic/issues.

Ignore what they are fighting for, and just reflect on the fact that these people, in nations all over the earth, are standing in the cold fighting for something. Even if you disagree with what they are fighting for, can you not at least RESPECT them for actually trying?

What exactly are you not grasping from that paragraph? i'm serious because apparently only two of you aren't grasping something, so explain what it is, so we can explain it to everyone else.

honestly, I started the damn thread saying this is about the fact people are willing to protest, not about supporting or not supporting OWS. I specifically asked to keep it about that, not the OWS protests themselves, or what they are fighting for / against, or what your personal feelings are about them

I quite simply asked if anyone else can at least respect the fact that people are still willing to fight.

apparently you don't, you could have just said that, it would have been much clearer

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Socially, I think it's great people are trying and willing to work for a cause.

Logically, I think it's but a means to control the frustrations and emotional outpour of the population.

Lately, I think the movement will cause no good, but maybe lead to people thinking radically different about how to approach the problems at hand.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


YES, I DO support their right to peacefully protest. That support stops when they infringe on the rights of others and break laws. I do not support civil disobedience.

By the way, you guys continually say anyone who doesn’t get out and protest at OWS is sitting in an armchair somewhere. That is the go-to line for you people. You don’t know where I’ve been and what I’ve done.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Can you give a few examples of what type of comments you would liked to have seen from people who do not agree with OWS?

dear god, it's not about OWS, it's about protests in general in our current times.

I was expecting something along the lines of comments like these:

The OWS movement has flaws, IMO, but the idea of people fighting to change things for the better of the country? That's an idea I can definitely get behind. That's what America and patriotism is all about.

In our apathetic world, OWS was an amazing discovery, that courageous people in an apathetic democracy would still stand up and protest

That's what I was hoping to discuss. what do I expect from anti-ows'rs? Exactly what I got, sadly. the intention was to essentially wipe out OWS and merely take an objective look at people willing to protesting in 2011. It really is that simple.

I wanted to see if, as I suspect, people from all sides of this can at least respect the fact that some people are willing to walk the walk instead of merely talking the talk.

I guess some of you just can't get past OWS at all. It's sad really.

reply to post by seabag

YES, I DO support their right to peacefully protest. That support stops when they infringe on the rights of others and break laws. I do not support civil disobedience. By the way, you guys continually say anyone who doesn’t get out and protest at OWS is sitting in an armchair somewhere. That is the go-to line for you people. You don’t know where I’ve been and what I’ve done.

Oh, so you've attended some anti-ows rallies then? Yeah, didn't think so.

anyways, that's the exact response I was hoping for. See how easy it was to just voice your opinion objectively, ignoring the left/right BS for a few minutes? Obviously you are in, or were in, the military. You understand your duty is to protect those people and their right to protest.

I don't expect you to support violence and lawlessness. Neither do I. I was the first to ring the alarm bells when they attempted to have an OWS protest in my city, as I noticed punk kids piling up rocks and broken pieces of concrete at central locations down town, all close to banks of course.

What OWS is doing isn't the issue in this thread. As stated a few times now.

reply to post by unityemissions

Socially, I think it's great people are trying and willing to work for a cause. Logically, I think it's but a means to control the frustrations and emotional outpour of the population. Lately, I think the movement will cause no good, but maybe lead to people thinking radically different about how to approach the problems at hand.

There we go, we can work with this. Yes it does make me happy to see that some people are willing to do the leg work (not sure if work is the right term). I respect their willingness to try, even if they fail, they at least tried.

I agree, I don't see any real tangible changes coming out of this, and I fully expect it to turn violent as winter draws near. But this can't belittle the honest, peaceful people, fighting for a cause they believe in.

reply to post by SLAYER69

It's not nit picking.

If you can explain how your posts were not completely off topic and nit picking, have at it.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Obviously you didn't read the opening post. That's exactly what I'm looking for, peoples feelings on social unrest and the willingness to try to change things. Not the people themselves. Not the reasons for their protests.

Okay so you wanted a very subjective thread, immensely subjective
I just find that to be so non-intellectual & therefore part of the problem
But to each their own I guess

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Merely the fact that in this day and age, some people are willing to put themselves out there for a cause.

See now that's the thing
You can't do that
You say just talk about the people's feelings on social unrest not the reasons for their protests
Then you say they are putting themselves out there for a cause

If you don't want to talk about the cause and how they approach it you should absolutely not use that word
You can't keep saying the movement is great and it is a noble cause that they believe in BUT HEYY... WE Can't Talk About That!

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
So, instead of desperately trying to keep this ontopic, how about this.

What would YOU be willing to protest over?

Many things
1) The end of the debate commission, independants should be allowed in presidential debates
2) End of the Fed, gradually
3) A gradual end of the entitlement system
4) Much less regulations
5) An full stop and end to wrong usage of Executive Orders
6) no more Czars
7) A pay cut to politicians
8) Lobbyists should not be allowed to hold any regulatory and/or appointed non-elected positions
9) full transparency
10) Disclose all information or abolish Nasa
11) no more bailouts and no more stimulus packages
12) And end to these wars
13) former pentagon execs/generals should who then leave to work for the military industrial complex should not receive these no-bid contracts
14) A trimming, not end but trimming, to the CIA
15) End DHS
16) End the Drug War
17) no more TSA
18) end the patriot act

This is just off the top of my head but I would like to see a movement that held all these motives and had it as a manifesto of the movement
I would object to any political group hitching a ride on the movement for votes but I would encourage dialogue

In other words, though the list is off the top of my head, I would come prepared.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
If you can explain how your posts were not completely off topic and nit picking, have at it.

If it is "Off Topic" then the MODS will remove it.

Not simply because you disagree with it.


On topic.
All politics aside. I agree with the premise of the movement. I however, will exercise my right to have reservations.

reply to post by SLAYER69

All politics aside. I agree with the premise of the movement. I however, will exercise my right to have reservations.

I support you right 100%. But again, this isn't about this particular movement (ows) it's about peoples willingness to actually protest in general.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

See now that's the thing You can't do that You say just talk about the people's feelings on social unrest not the reasons for their protests Then you say they are putting themselves out there for a cause If you don't want to talk about the cause and how they approach it you should absolutely not use that word You can't keep saying the movement is great and it is a noble cause that they believe in BUT HEYY... WE Can't Talk About That!

Feel free to post a quote of me saying those things, I'll wait. Actually I won't, cause I haven't.

I stick to my opinion that some of you have reading comprehension issues.

We're not talking about THIS cause or THAT cause.

We're talking about peoples willingness to protest and fight for A CAUSE, ANY CAUSE.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


As long as protests are non-violent I find them to be interesting

reply to post by ModernAcademia

This is just off the top of my head but I would like to see a movement that held all these motives and had it as a manifesto of the movement

From your list I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would disagree with those points, including a good chunk of those OWSers.

So keeping in tune with the intent of the thread, what would it take for you to go start that movement yourself? would you be willing to? would you wait until it's gained steam on it's own? What would it take for you to exercise that right to protest?