Oakland : second Iraq war veteran in intensive care after police clashes

reply to post by WiZKiD111

They DO get told to go into Iraq over WMD and kill everybody though

No one is told to "Kill everybody".

You don't have to agree with the war. But don't slander service members because of it.
And then turn around and use their service to try to score one for whatever team you play for.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

I don't do that and for that reason, I don't appreciate being lumped in with the idiots that do that.

Understood. And you are absolutely right.

But I'm sure you can understand why i reacted this way considering the problems I've faced with many of the OWS proponents here.

Oh, absolutely. Honestly, I find it borderline offensive to soldiers such as you. I rarely.... And I do mean RARELY agree with neo... In fact, I am unsure I ever have before....

But they called it correctly. These soldiers are being used as props.... Propaganda for the cause...

Thanks for hearing me out. I just wanted to let you know that not all are like that.

From what I am told, the Marines Corps is a brotherhood bond that can never be broken....

Injure one Marine shame on you...Injure two, you had better be watching your six.

That being said....I would like more details before I pass judgement on the situation...Hopefully, the police wouldn't brutalize someone without just cause.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Yeah well i would agree with that but i have seen to many threads on here disrespecting them and by the same people defending OWS and go to any thread about Iran who was right there in Iraq and it responsibile for American deaths and defend Iran and chant the USA is the devil.

IF your with them great but not just some of the time half the time but all of the time.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

They DO get told to go into Iraq over WMD and kill everybody though

No one is told to "Kill everybody".

You don't have to agree with the war. But don't slander service members because of it.
And then turn around and use their service to try to score one for whatever team you play for.

You like avoiding everything I say don't you.
"kill everybody" is not a literal interpretation.

What you're saying is fundamentally wrong.
They are not being ordered down to the OWS protests they are going on their own free will.
That's a soldier I can respect more so than a soldier who dies in combat from an order.

Not insinuating I don't respect our fallen comrades I'm just saying I have MORE respect for those who choose to go against a system that is corrupt and die or become hurt because of their beliefs rather than an order to hurt other people.

Doing something on your own free will and doing something because you're ordered to are two different things.
One is a headless chicken and another is somebody with a head.

reply to post by neo96


No, I completely agree with you though. I find it disrespectful. You are right that soldiers such as that navy man, here recently, are being used as props for the cause and I find that very disrespectful.

I am just saying. I do support the idea of OWS. I support the honest people in there who truly mean well and I do see that there are people and groups infiltrating the movement, trying to use it for their own agenda.

I am just saying. Not all of us disrespect the soldiers like this. I can't speak for anyone else, but personally. I am thankful for every single soldier and I do find it offensive that a good deal will sit there and bad mouth soldiers and what not, then turn around and use them as props and propaganda for the cause....

It's hypocritical and down right disrespectful... The people that do that are indicating that they have no respect for the soldiers... They look at them as nothing more than a tool... To be bad mouthed when it fits them and to be turned into propaganda when it fits them.

I am in agreement. I just want it to be known that at least one.... Is not like that...

reply to post by WiZKiD111

Not insinuating I don't respect our fallen comrades I'm just saying I have MORE respect for those who choose to go against a system that is corrupt and die or become hurt because of their beliefs rather than an order to hurt other people.

WTF kind of military is so disjointed and undisciplined that they can't follow the orders of the civilian leadership you people elect and garner your respect? The US military is APOLITICAL.

If they simply started disobeying orders of the civilian leadership because ignoramuses like you would "respect them more" you'd have a military dictatorship in the US in very short order.

These former service members, as I said before, can do as they wish. But OWS proponents use their status as a veteran as a prop to bring legitimacy to a movement that has largely failed to establish it's own legitimacy.

Doing something on your own free will and doing something because you're ordered to are two different things.

It's an all volunteer military. If one can't stomach the duties of being in the effing military(what the hell do you think the military does? Hand out candy?)then one shouldn't join.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

Not insinuating I don't respect our fallen comrades I'm just saying I have MORE respect for those who choose to go against a system that is corrupt and die or become hurt because of their beliefs rather than an order to hurt other people.

WTF kind of military is so disjointed and undisciplined that they can't follow the orders of the civilian leadership you people elect and garner your respect? The US military is APOLITICAL.

If they simply started disobeying orders of the civilian leadership because ignoramuses like you would "respect them more" you'd have a military dictatorship in the US in very short order.

These former service members, as I said before, can do as they wish. But OWS proponents use their status as a veteran as a prop to bring legitimacy to a movement that has largely failed to establish it's own legitimacy.

Doing something on your own free will and doing something because you're ordered to are two different things.

It's an all volunteer military. If one can't stomach the duties of being in the effing military(what the hell do you think the military does? Hand out candy?)then one shouldn't join.

edit on 4-11-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

You have failed to rebut any of my statements with logic.
This is where I end my debate with you.

Feel free to spread your dis-informational propaganda to like minded people.

Peace & stay safe.

reply to post by WiZKiD111


I addressed every point you made.

You just don't like my answers.

Originally posted by WiZKiD111


You have failed to rebut any of my statements with logic.
This is where I end my debate with you.

Feel free to spread your dis-informational propaganda to like minded people.

Peace & stay safe.

He covered everything you had to say with a very fair rebuttal....

Honestly, you running from the debate only gives the impression that you have nothing to rebutt his statements with...

I kind of hope you come back in and finish the discussion. Running from a conversation is not the way to figure things out and come to a solution.

Come on, if you think his words are "dis-informational" why just give up and allow him to spread such statements? If you think he is wrong then prove him wrong!

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

I addressed every point you made.

You just don't like my answers.

Because your answers are either twisting my concepts or your answers 'wrong.'
Apolitical, don't kid yourself.

Nobody is using the veteran title to make the movement any more legitimate than it originally was.

reply to post by WiZKiD111

Apolitical, don't kid yourself.

Yes it is apolitical.

I think you've displayed enough ignorance of how the military works that you should be more cautious of arguing these points with me.

We do what the POTUS tells us to do.

Don't like it? Vote in your own people to congress and get your own guy in the White House.

reply to post by WiZKiD111

Nobody is using the veteran title to make the movement any more legitimate than it originally was.

BS

Originally posted by projectvxn
These veterans only matter to you people because they're participating in OWS.

If they are actually serving the country or aren't part of OWS then you people would be screaming about them being baby killers, murderers and what ever other anti-service member garbage you all spew..You use the veteran status as a symbol trying to siphon off the legitimacy of it while simultaneously holding contempt for the very actions that made it possible for you OWS people to use them like pawns in your stupid little propaganda war.

You make me sick.

edit on 4-11-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Some of us are veterans as well and find it tough to stomach having cops beat up our brothers after they risked their lives for this country even if they didn't know what they were getting into at first.

I can see your frustration, but remember that no war outside our border will compare to the turmoil about to take place here and it will involve military as well as civilian. I for one stand with the military, not only because I was one of them, but because I know what they go through and what they are capable of when they get out.

There are very few occupations which can give a broader spectrum on the real world than military life.

reply to post by onecraftydude


Considering what has been going on in Oakland, the fact that people are getting hurt as a result of the chaos started by Occupy Oakland protesters shouldn't surprise anyone. The fact that a few people, who happen to be veterans, got hurt is unfortunate, but their status is being used as a prop to lend legitimacy to a movement that has NONE. Especially after the rioting in Oakland, and the cheering on of these events from other OWS camps around the country.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

Nobody is using the veteran title to make the movement any more legitimate than it originally was.

BS

That proves, absolutely nothing.
Who takes anything written on the internet with more than a grain of salt?

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

Apolitical, don't kid yourself.

Yes it is apolitical.

I think you've displayed enough ignorance of how the military works that you should be more cautious of arguing these points with me.

We do what the POTUS tells us to do.

Don't like it? Vote in your own people to congress and get your own guy in the White House.

I've shown ignorance?, oh god.
You're clueless, like I said before; you cannot serve in the army and claim to be enlightened.


I thought about quoting you on everything and debate with you through my teeth but it will accomplish nothing.
It seems like you have a real passion to argue with me over this point so it's literally pointless to continue.

It's like attempting to preach to a Christian about Buddhism, it wont work.
You can believe what you like but I hope the majority who look at your posts can see you're completely wrong.

Also, thank you for the kind messages from others.
No, this is not implying that your groupies have attacked me through private messages either.
You may be respected, have an older join date and a thousands of posts but that does not mean you're correct.
I'm sorry.


Once again, Peace & stay safe.
This will be my last response no matter how hard you bait me with your ignorance.


Ciao.

reply to post by WiZKiD111


If people are harassing you over our little argument here then I apologize. I do not condone such things nor do I ask others to speak on my behalf in such a manner.

Originally posted by WiZKiD111

Also, thank you for the kind messages from others.
No, this is not implying that your groupies have attacked me through private messages either.
You may be respected, have an older join date and a thousands of posts but that does not mean you're correct.
I'm sorry.

Let me just say, if people are sending you messages like that, honestly shame on them. This debate needs to be in HERE.

For what it is worth, if it continues,you should contact the mods and tell them who is sending you these messages and that you would like it to stop. The mods will see to it that they stop.

Guys, quit bugging people via U2U.... That is not what ATS is about.

Originally posted by WiZKiD111
Also, thank you for the kind messages from others.
No, this is not implying that your groupies have attacked me through private messages either
You may be respected, have an older join date and a thousands of posts but that does not mean you're correct.
I'm sorry.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

If people are harassing you over our little argument here then I apologize. I do not condone such things nor do I ask others to speak on my behalf in such a manner.

edit on 4-11-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Sorry that probably wasn't the best part to place that bit of text but to the contrary.
Much love.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

I don't do that and for that reason, I don't appreciate being lumped in with the idiots that do that.

Understood. And you are absolutely right.

But I'm sure you can understand why i reacted this way considering the problems I've faced with many of the OWS proponents here.

umm no dude, the reason you get slammed is because you have shamelessly indulged your ugly american attitude
and have had nothing but insults and defamation for OWS
you clearly sided with the 1% way of thought and life from the start and

like the scum of OPD, you want to claim being of the 99% while spitting on them from above. :finger:

the reason these marines are being honored is because

THEY ARE CURRENTLY SERVING THEIR COUNTRY AND PEOPLE.
AND YOU CAN'T SAY THE SAME.


why don't you catch a rubber bullet at a tea party rally so you don't have anything to whine about?
that's not a rifle on your avy's shoulder
it's a chip methinks

that said it looks like opd is targeting any vets standing with ows