The Moon Is Upsidedown Tonight ! Las Vegas, Nevada

Originally posted by luxordelphi
In the happiest of times which were also the most mundane of times this is what the moon in all its' ancient familiarity looked like in Kansas. Notice the angle in the sky. Isn't it wonderful. How perfectly normal.

Wow, so after all this you STILL don't understand field rotation at all and you think that's how the moon should always look at locations separated from the equator. Again, explain this please:
www.youtube.com...
Boat moon seen from Table Mountain, at 43 degrees north, in 1986:
www.w7ftt.net...
It's normal, it's field rotation, end of story.

reply to post by CherubBaby

You know I think that this is relevant though. I have no vested interest in anyway shape or form when it comes to my quest for answers. Do you?

Yes, we all have a vested interest in discovering the TRUTH...your argumentation and attitude toward other members participating in the thread indicate this is not the case with you...

reply to post by CherubBaby


Were you being facetious in this post? Please tell me you were being facetious....

reply to post by jeichelberg


No not at all. But I do have a question for anyone that can answer it. The picture below from Stellarium, whats wrong with it? 3/30/2012

reply to post by CherubBaby


I can't immediate see anything wrong. It's a bit squished from atmospheric distortion, but that's not "wrong", it's accurate.

What do you think is wrong with it?
Where is that viewed from?
What's the exact date and time?

For comparison, here's the moon in Sky Safari on the Mac:



It's the same, without the atmospheric distortion though.

reply to post by ngchunter


Go to the back of the class. This is not a telescope topic. Your use of field rotation to obscure the issue has seen better days. You haven't contributed anything to the discussion in some time. Here's some deja vu for you: resting on past laurels is a mistake. For a dedicated debunker: innovate innovate innovate. It also doesn't hurt to surround your disinformation with visuals unless you want everyone to snooze through your posts. Using visuals in this case, though, would show the complete irrelevance of your statement. Still...let's see you try to make a go of it and impress me.

reply to post by CherubBaby


What location is the screen shot set at?

EDIT: The Northern Hemisphere is anything found on the surface of the Earth extending from the TRUE North Pole to the MIDDLE (or EQUATOR) of the globe...Here is a picture>>>>

en.wikipedia.org...:Northern_Hemisphere_Azimuthal_projections.svg

Adding this: My Stellarium program shows that on 3/30/12 the Moon is up in the DAYTIME sky...it is not dark...

Does anyone know how to capture screenshots on Stellarium? I am using a MacBook...Thank you.

reply to post by luxordelphi

Field rotation is not just a telescopic effect. Field rotation can seen while watching the sky with the naked eye. Filed rotation occurs basically because we observers are standing on the side of the Earth as the Earth rotates beneath the sky.

When a telescopic view is corrected for field rotation and is given a polar alignment (as if you are outside the Earth viewing the sky in the familiar textbook point-of-view with the Earth's north pole as being "up"), then you would obviously never see a boat moon.

Here is an explanation of field rotation. Notice this explanation mentions tilting constellations and a tilting Moon:

Field rotation can be visualized by thinking about what happens when a constellation or the moon rises, transits and sets. From northern latitudes, Orion will rise on his side with his left shoulder (the one north of Rigel) highest. As he crosses the sky he will reach and transit the meridian, when both shoulders will be the same height. When he sets, the right shoulder (Betelgeuse) will appear highest. It’s like he’s climbed the dome of the sky, reaching the top and then goes down the other side. The angle of his body changes during the course of the night, first tilting to the east, then tilting to the west. Similarly, the moon will rise with the Sea of Crises (Mare Crisium) edge leading upwards, the Ocean of Storms (Oceanus Procellarum) following and lower. Both of these dark areas will appear about the same altitude when it transits, then the Ocean of Storms will be higher than the Sea of Crises as the moon sets. Again the tilt changes as the moon moves across the sky. Both examples show field rotation with your head and body acting like an altazimuth mount.

Here is the article this excerpt comes from:

www.celestron.com...

The article itself focuses on how field rotation affects telescope viewing, but you can see that the explanation given for field rotation has nothing to do with a telescope. The effect of filed rotation can be seen without a telescope.

For example, if I look at the sky with my own eyes, the constellation of Orion's will rise near the east with its left shoulder first, but also set in the west with its left shoulder first. There is no other way for Orion to do this unless he would appear to tilt as he moves across the sky from rising to setting. Therefore field rotation is a real effect seen by the naked eye.

reply to post by CherubBaby


This is taken from Stellarium today...it shows the Moon in NW Indiana on 3/30/12...I switched to azimuthal mount to take the screen shot...

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Go to the back of the class. This is not a telescope topic. Your use of field rotation to obscure the issue has seen better days. You haven't contributed anything to the discussion in some time.

Field rotation IS the issue, it is not limited to telescopes. The way you see the sky with your head on your shoulders is in an altitude-azimuth manner, it is not a polar aligned perspective. My telescope simply shows the difference between the two perspectives and proves that the orientation is normal from a polar aligned perspective. You have utterly failed to explain why it's normal from a polar aligned perspective. Resorting to insults and pretending that field rotation "obscures" the issue when in fact it IS the issue does not explain why the moon's orientation is normal from a polar aligned perspective.

Here's some deja vu for you: resting on past laurels is a mistake. For a dedicated debunker: innovate innovate innovate. It also doesn't hurt to surround your disinformation with visuals unless you want everyone to snooze through your posts.

I do not provide disinformation, I have demonstrated the true cause of what you think is abnormal and I have shown that the moon's true orientation is not abnormal. Personal attacks of this nature are against the T&C's. Either prove that I am providing "disinformation" or retract the above statement.

Using visuals in this case, though, would show the complete irrelevance of your statement. Still...let's see you try to make a go of it and impress me.

It is up to you to prove that my data is irrelevant. You have utterly failed to do this. The reason, of course, is because it directly demonstrates the phenomenon you claim is abnormal and shows that the moon's orientation is anything but abnormal. The apparent "rotation" or "tilt" of the moon is absent when viewed from a polar aligned perspective. Explain this. That means, actually explain it, don't accuse me of providing "disinformation."

Originally posted by jeichelberg
Adding this: My Stellarium program shows that on 3/30/12 the Moon is up in the DAYTIME sky...it is not dark...

It actually is visible twice, it sets at about 1:30AM on March 30th, 2012. That's the original image. It then rises about 12:00 noon, which is your image.

Does anyone know how to capture screenshots on Stellarium? I am using a MacBook...Thank you.

edit on 11/25/2011 by jeichelberg because: Further content

edit on 11/25/2011 by jeichelberg because: Further content

In Stellarium, command-S will save an image on your desktop (crtl-s on the PC)

On the Mac you can also use the built-in "grab" program to "Capture Selection", to just get a small area. I use the Skitch program, which is great for annotating and uploading images

reply to post by Uncinus


Thank you very much. I appreciate the info...

The image is for Las Vegas, Nv 3/30/2012 The First Day of The First Quarter. The terminator line is not uniform.when compared from one side to the other.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
The image is for Las Vegas, Nv 3/30/2012 The First Day of The First Quarter. The terminator line is not uniform.when compared from one side to the other.

That's because you have atmospheric distortion switched on. This visually squishes the moon as it gets closer to the horizon due to refraction. The moon is likely below the horizon at that point. You can turn it on and off in the sky viewing options.

reply to post by Uncinus


Thats all well and good , if your moon is below the horizon. Mine isn't and according to your instructions it not only removes the atmosphere , it also removes your ability to see the moon clearly at all. I didn't want to hide it otherwise I would have called in a couple of passanger jets to trail and deliver clouds to the view in front of me.
I can tellyou that Slarium is full of inconsistancies for multitudes of moon orientations in the futures on various dates. And it's subtle but its there none the less.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Uncinus

 

Thats all well and good , if your moon is below the horizon. Mine isn't and according to your instructions it not only removes the atmosphere , it also removes your ability to see the moon clearly at all. I didn't want to hide it otherwise I would have called in a couple of passanger jets to trail and deliver clouds to the view in front of me.

You can't see it because it's below the horizon.

I can tellyou that Slarium is full of inconsistancies for multitudes of moon orientations in the futures on various dates. And it's subtle but its there none the less.

Demonstrate one.

reply to post by Uncinus


The picture I posted of the moon according to Stellarium is not below the horizon. The pic has inconsistancies. .and I will show some other examples later on..

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Uncinus

 

The picture I posted of the moon according to Stellarium is not below the horizon. The pic has inconsistancies. .and I will show some other examples later on..

From what he demonstrated in his example image, if the moon vanishes when you uncheck the atmosphere box, then that means it's below the horizon - you will notice how it does the same thing in his example images...which is also why it appears all squished in your image when you have the atmosphere turned on because it's simulating the distortion that allows it to be visible at that time from that location at all in the first place.

What was the exact time that you selected for that day? Try backing it up a bit and see if it still does the same thing with the atmosphere box.


In regards to the previous posts about disinformation...I would say that's the exact reason why anyone's still trying to explain this to you and lux is to avoid this thread giving other people disinformation. It isn't a matter of belief...this is science, not religion. Yes, you 'believe' something is wrong with the moon's orbit, and people are trying to show you the science and facts that explain why there isn't anything wrong at all and how nothing significant has changed in the way this works for the extent of human recorded history. Nor do we have any reason to believe it changed before then either.

That doesn't mean that we know everything about it as science is about expanding ideas and constantly learning, but we definitely know enough at this stage to know that both northern and southern hemispheres can experience boat moons to varying degree during their respective winters and why.

Here is another shot from Stellarium...

reply to post by Dashdragon


I find it interesting that you mention me and lux. So are you saying that we are the only people on this site who disagree with you? Maybe we are the only ones on the site that are willing to post in a thread that is over-run with cyber bullies.
The comments you make about The moon being below the horizon in Stellarium are also false. If you can see the moon with the atmosphere and landscape not removed it means the moon is above the horizon. removing the atmosphere/landscape only allows the moon to be visible after it has set. But you already know this. To sum how do you view the moon in stellarium below the horizon?