Qantas grounds entire fleet

reply to post by daggyz


Excuse me? Who the hell runs FWA in Australia? Let me guess......ex unionists who still rub shoulders with their union contacts.

Botton line; Qantas employees are NOT going to get guaranteed job security, no one anywhere in the world has that. Qantas employees have to be realistic because the alternative is not a healthy future for most of them.

The biggest worry for all of us is rising rents or large mortgages, ultitilies, petrol, food, dental/healthcare etc with the new Carbon Tax just around the corner. Most companies have frozen wages for the past 2 years now and will continue to do so while their CEOs take a pay rise. There will be a major blacklash, that will come soon enough worldwide, but now's not the time to throw all your eggs in one basket especially if you have a mortgage and high credit card debt. Work for as long as you can before those jobs DO go offshore. When you work for a private corporation or business, you have no say and we are all expendable at only a moment's notice.

As for Alan Joyce, no other airline would employ him after his contract is up. Thats a given.

I know plenty of unemployed that would be glad to step in and work for the 20ish dollars a hour and and would be glad to have a job to take the money home for the wife and kids. If the workers can not sort it out well step aside and let the ones that want to work, work

reply to post by Aim64C


I'm afraid to say, payrises are only achieveable when a majority DO band together. I recall when I worked for my last employers we had our wages frozen for 2 years while our CEOs took salary increases. Those around me worked 5 years in the same job and did bloody squat. I can't count how many extra hours I worked overtime without pay because those around me has serious bad work ethics. I approached management for a payrise and explained why; they refused so I walked. Now I've since heard they are in deep financial trouble because production is down and they can't find good workers with strong work ethics who will work for minimal pay.

reply to post by Legion2024


I know most high school students are getting $15+ph working for the likes of Coles and Woolworths. Adults with 10-20+ years experience won't work for $20ph gross anymore. Why should the skilled workers get paid just a little above a student with no skills?

I personally would never work for $20.00 gross per hour, not for anyone. If you know alot of unemployed who would work that, may they go forth and apply......except they don't or won't because all they do is talk but won't walk the walk!

reply to post by hmmmbeer
hmmmbeer,
Well put, I think you covered nicely most of what this is really about.

To those people here who think this is all about bloody minded unions making unreasonable demands and calling strikes every five minutes , it's not. In fact strike action sanctioned by the government's own Fair Work Australia was called off. There is no doubt that some of the unions positions within the deep nuts and bolts of the various Enterprise Bargaining Agreements (EBA's) are flawed and not agreed to by all members, but the companies position in comparison is ludicrous. What isn't being properly reported is what tactics the company has been pulling behind the scenes. I know for a fact that at almost every meeting the company would send along different people who would claim to know nothing about what was discussed at the previous meeting so essentially it was always 2 steps forward, one step back. Another is that the so called unreasonable ambit claims put forward by the unions were actually put in as negotiating points at the insistence of the company. In effect they created the unreasonable terms as bargaining points and then called in the press and said "see what these unions are asking for they are out of control". Once the lie is put out the damage is already done. The thing that astounds me most is exactly how ignorant the press and a small group of pro management voices have been in this. They cant even get their basic facts straight and instead rely upon fake or misread claims by or attributed to the three involved unions. Most of the claims turning up in the press have been manipulated in this way to completely misrepresent the argument with little regard to basic 1st year cadet journalism investigative reporting 101. Ask yourself a basic question, why are three separate unions having a huge war with management with one of them having not been involved in industrial action in 45 years all at the same time? Could it be that they are actually broadly right and management are incorrect not to mention incompetent? How could it be that it's everybody else's fault bar the executive?

Another thing I would like to clarify here. There seems to be a misunderstanding of the terms shareholders and shareholder votes. A huge number of shareholders have voted against the Qantas exec's remuneration package with the AGM on Friday just gone being one of the most acrimonious in memory. The problem is that a tiny number of institutional investors hold the vast number of shareholder vote's, that is the difference. Probably no more than 6 or 8 people have more power than 20 or 30 thousand individuals. Hardly a ringing endorsement for giving huge bonuses when the institutional investors are essentially the same kind of self preserving sociopathic personality type on essentially the same kind of cosy deal's.

LEE.

Current unskilled baggage handlers conditions:

For starters, they get paid upwards of 20 per cent above the industry rate and earn between $70,000 to $85,000 a year including penalty rates but not overtime. Overtime is paid at double time as are any public holidays…

If you get called in to work by choice when rostered off, regardless of the time spent at work, you get paid a minimum four hours at double time.

There are a multitude of miscellaneous penalty rates paid as well. In addition to all this, Qantas baggage handlers get significantly discounted domestic and international air travel. Their children are the envy of the playground.

They can get up to five days off in a fortnight due to a user-friendly shift roster… They get five weeks’ annual leave, generous sick leave conditions and a well managed and flexible superannuation fund.

---------------

Oh yeah, talk about the exploited.

Greedy unskilled labourers envious of Western Australian miners.

They are killing an iconic company, very short term stupidity and greed.

Qantas baggage handlers have the most generous package for any international carrier.

If you are looking for a cause, support the working poor.
The cleaners, the domestics, the kitchen workers.

Not the pampered baggage stuffers.

reply to post by thebozeian


That would sound about right; I've seen this all too well before in the past with corporations using the same tactics.....sending in new people every meeting who have no friggin idea abour previous meetings.

Hodl that thought.....

Rhesusmonkey made a valid point in his post too. Are Qantas staff getting too greedy? Now we all know what those work ethics of ground staff including the bag handlers are like.....and it's not great! Jeezes, I'd work for those pay and work conditions anytime!

reply to post by hmmmbeer

.reply to post by mishigas

Its not about pay, never has been. Its about job security and working conditions. The people who work for Qantas are great, and it has always been the top airline in the country. When times were tough, the employees gracefully took a pay hit. All they want is a statement from the management that they are not deliberately bringing Qantas down and offshoring all the assets. They just want the good thing to continue.
Offshoring is bad for the employees, bad for the customers, bad for the country but good for a small handful of shareholders. Who dont know what 'enough money' means.
The whole deal with Jetstar is accounting trickery using creative inter-company transfers. You can make the profit statement look great or terrible with a few simple clicks.
This action is almost as big as the OWS movement.
Lets hope the social media (cause it wont be the MSM) stays focussed on the truth and supports the workers. And its not about Julia or Tony. If Julia was to act properly here, she would fire Joyce and deport him.

Thanks for the info...I was only going by what was in the OP. When you say 'offshoring', do you mean moving jobs offshore?

The whole concept of 'enough money' is relative. Shareholders are typically pensioners looking to supplement their income. If it were me, I would try to maximize my return. Can't blame them.

Look at it this way.
I'm a professional and I earn about the same as the baggage handlers.

I have to work 'overtime' for no additional pay. Work follows me home after work and on holidays.

I'd be better off being an unskilled worker.
Work finishes at work, can't be taken home.
And you get exercise at work - no gym required.
And highly subsidised vacations.

Its a big world.
Why not get some maintenance overseas?
Flight is international.

Be a bit brave.
Africa would be able to trade itself out of poverty - without any aid - if Europe were to drop its trade barriers.
Why shouldn't Qantas look outside Australian shores? It makes a lot of its income offshore.
Be a bit worldly.

Originally posted by rhesusmonkey
Look at it this way.
I'm a professional and I earn about the same as the baggage handlers.

I have to work 'overtime' for no additional pay. Work follows me home after work and on holidays.

I'd be better off being an unskilled worker.
Work finishes at work, can't be taken home.
And you get exercise at work - no gym required.
And highly subsidised vacations.

Yep, I don't mind that either.

These Qantas workers are playing right in to the hands of Joyce and the employees are the biggest loosers. Best worry about offshore sourcing than striking for more pay!

Things like this are just terrible! I can't imagine what would cause someone to do something like this! Those poor workers! Having a gun held to their head forcing them to keep a job that doesn't pay them as much as they think they should be paid. Awful! No choice!

Originally posted by rhesusmonkey
Its a big world.
Why not get some maintenance overseas?
Flight is international.

Be a bit brave.
Africa would be able to trade itself out of poverty - without any aid - if Europe were to drop its trade barriers.
Why shouldn't Qantas look outside Australian shores? It makes a lot of its income offshore.
Be a bit worldly.

Australia does not trust asian maintenance because the quality and regulations are not as good. Ask yourself who you would prefer looking after the aluminium tubes you fly in?

Qantas share price has fallen 65% in the last 5 years but almost $100 million has been paid to CEo, non-executive directors and chairman in that time, NO dividend to shareholder's for two years now but still the shareholder vote in massive majority favor to give Joyce a 71% increase in remuneration. Madness - Only 4% against?? (no show-of-hands at the annual general meeting - all electronic voting) I don't get it! It's funny that Joyce made no mention of his increase in remuneration when addressing the shareholders, nor did he give any indication of any decision (insane and disastrous decision i might add) to ground the fleet the very next day. I smell a rat in the racks rigging the electronic voting system for his remuneration to line his stinking sewer coffers. I say sack him! and start fair negotiations with these unions to keep our iconic Australian Qantas brand staffed by the Australian people.

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by rhesusmonkey
Its a big world.
Why not get some maintenance overseas?
Flight is international.

Be a bit brave.
Africa would be able to trade itself out of poverty - without any aid - if Europe were to drop its trade barriers.
Why shouldn't Qantas look outside Australian shores? It makes a lot of its income offshore.
Be a bit worldly.

Australia does not trust asian maintenance because the quality and regulations are not as good. Ask yourself who you would prefer looking after the aluminium tubes you fly in?

I don't fall into the line of thinking that Australian = Good and Asian = Bad. In fact, do I really want a monaro burnouting bogan working on an aircraft? Stupid assumptions work both ways, you see.

There are worldwide standards for international aircraft maintenance.

I'm very happy for Qantas to make the decision of where maintenance occurs.

Be worldly, not scared.

Originally posted by glitched
Qantas share price has fallen 65% in the last 5 years but almost $100 million has been paid to CEo, non-executive directors and chairman in that time, NO dividend to shareholder's for two years now but still the shareholder vote in massive majority favor to give Joyce a 71% increase in remuneration. Madness - Only 4% against?? (no show-of-hands at the annual general meeting - all electronic voting) I don't get it! It's funny that Joyce made no mention of his increase in remuneration when addressing the shareholders, nor did he give any indication of any decision (insane and disastrous decision i might add) to ground the fleet the very next day. I smell a rat in the racks rigging the electronic voting system for his remuneration to line his stinking sewer coffers. I say sack him! and start fair negotiations with these unions to keep our iconic Australian Qantas brand staffed by the Australian people.

Nice to leave out the GFC prat!

Qantas is the only international airline to stay profitable continually since the 2008 GFC.

The rise was granted by the shareholders. Buy a share and have your say or tell your story walking.

reply to post by rhesusmonkey


I really don't know from where you got the impression that Australians are not 'worldly'. As for maintenance standards, just have a look at the incidents over the past few years since Qantas began sourcing theirs overseas. There can be no denying that Australian standards are far higher than many other countries including the ones Qantas wants to source to.

EDIT: It's also important to remember that Australians are very loyal to their own brands and take pride in their work with them and pride in their icons. This is not the case with our brands elsewhere.

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by rhesusmonkey
Its a big world.
Why not get some maintenance overseas?
Flight is international.

Be a bit brave.
Africa would be able to trade itself out of poverty - without any aid - if Europe were to drop its trade barriers.
Why shouldn't Qantas look outside Australian shores? It makes a lot of its income offshore.
Be a bit worldly.

Australia does not trust asian maintenance because the quality and regulations are not as good. Ask yourself who you would prefer looking after the aluminium tubes you fly in?

You hit the issue right there.
A few years ago on the Gold coast in Australia the Australian Government had seventeen year old and eighteen year old directly imported Cabbies driving local residents and tourists around smashing into parked cars and rear ending other cabs on ranks.
Why?
A cab driver who drove me down to Byron told me it was to keep the Taxi owners from paying Super/holiday pay ect and the minimum wage to the hundreds of protesting cabbies on the Gold coast, they just imported young kids with little or no driving ability, did the government care ?

It took them three years to raise the age limit of Indian drivers to 20 yeras old, even though for Aussie local drivers the age limit had been 21 years old before and during the Indian cabbie invasion.
Peoples lives were at risk , I see a parrallel with the airline industry I fly often, and hate the idea of poorly trained incompetetent foreign workers being hired because they are .....Cheap.

Support the workers lest your plane fall ..due to cost cutting.

reply to post by rhesusmonkey


You would'nt want maintinance out sourced to Asian countries after many documentaries about Qantas already doing that. Asian maintinance crews are repairing using 3rd rate replacements of nuts and bolts and things, sometimes even superglue when a whole panel needs to be replaced. The workmanship is bloody shocking and tacky at best. I think they used chewing gum at one point. We've had too many close shaves in the past couple of years and God forbid, it's just a matter of when not if a Qantas jet goes down.

I'll try to find a couple of those documentaries for you over the next few hours when I return.