What is the flash before the plane hits the building?

reply to post by waypastvne


"mild steel" in a box backed by a four foot spandrel and a network of trusses, steel trays and concrete floors backed by the core and supported by still more "mild steel" boxes and spandrels. The fact remains you can't even account for one wing tip cutting one 1/4 inch box column, much less the 1/4 inch spandrel and the concrete floor behind it. It just dissappears into the building. It's not real. It's a composite.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by hooper


No - let them go, I am dying to see where this is headed.

Hell Ya !!! I love a good Truther Fight.

Come on shadow, show him who's Boss.

Don't let him treat you like That septic.

Spoken like a true meaningless troll... Go back to Jref.

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by waypastvne

 

"mild steel" in a box backed by a four foot sandrel and a network of trusses, steel trays and concrete floors backed by the core and supported by still more "mild steel" boxes and spandrels. The fact remains you can't even account for one wing tip cutting one 1/4 inch box column, much less the 1/4 inch spandrel and the concrete floor behind it. It just dissappears into the building. It's not real. It's a composite.

A 7075 T6 spar, backed up with closely spaced ribs, attached to a 7075 T6 aft spar, All sandwiched together with a hefty layer of 7075T6 wing skins top and bottom and filled with jet fuel. An equal if not superior match to your columns.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Go back to Jref.

There's not enough Truthers to giggle at over there. This is much more amusing.

Are you going to let septic get away with that no plane crap ? He's making you look like a fool.

Originally posted by waypastvne


A 7075 T6 spar, backed up with closely spaced ribs, attached to a 7075 T6 aft spar, All sandwiched together with a hefty layer of 7075T6 wing skins top and bottom and filled with jet fuel. An equal if not superior match to your columns.

You are being very deceptive. The towers were built on some of the windiest real estate in New York. "Mild steel" box columns would have shredded the jet.

From page 81 of the book "Twin Towers: The Life of New York City's World Trade Center ":

Planners designed the towers to withstand prolonged winds of 150 miles per hour, a severe condition that New York has never experienced. That kind of wind would give each tower a thirteen-million-pound pushthe equivalent of being smashed by a large ocean freighter.

Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by waypastvne


A 7075 T6 spar, backed up with closely spaced ribs, attached to a 7075 T6 aft spar, All sandwiched together with a hefty layer of 7075T6 wing skins top and bottom and filled with jet fuel. An equal if not superior match to your columns.

You are being very deceptive. The towers were built on some of the windiest real estate in New York. "Mild steel" box columns would have shredded the jet.

From page 81 of the book "Twin Towers: The Life of New York City's World Trade Center ":

Planners designed the towers to withstand prolonged winds of 150 miles per hour, a severe condition that New York has never experienced. That kind of wind would give each tower a thirteen-million-pound pushthe equivalent of being smashed by a large ocean freighter.

You seem to forget that the wind will be spread across the building and distribute among the horizontal supports, which will do their job resisting lateral bending.

The plane hit in a very concentrated area, something you continuously fail to understand.

Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by waypastvne


A 7075 T6 spar, backed up with closely spaced ribs, attached to a 7075 T6 aft spar, All sandwiched together with a hefty layer of 7075T6 wing skins top and bottom and filled with jet fuel. An equal if not superior match to your columns.

You are being very deceptive. The towers were built on some of the windiest real estate in New York. "Mild steel" box columns would have shredded the jet.

From page 81 of the book "Twin Towers: The Life of New York City's World Trade Center ":

Planners designed the towers to withstand prolonged winds of 150 miles per hour, a severe condition that New York has never experienced. That kind of wind would give each tower a thirteen-million-pound pushthe equivalent of being smashed by a large ocean freighter.

And the planes are designed to withstand 500 mph winds.

reply to post by Varemia

You seem to forget that the wind will be spread across the building and distribute among the horizontal supports, which will do their job resisting lateral bending.

huh?

The plane hit in a very concentrated area, something you continuously fail to understand.

The building hit the plane in a very concentrated area, something you continuously fail to understand.

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by Varemia

 

You seem to forget that the wind will be spread across the building and distribute among the horizontal supports, which will do their job resisting lateral bending.

huh?

The force from a 150 mph wind would be some where around .5 psi

The impact of the plane would be a little greater than .5 psi in the spot where it hit.

Originally posted by septic

The building hit the plane in a very concentrated area, something you continuously fail to understand.

No it hit the entire airplane. The airplane however did not hit the entire building, just the parts it damaged.

Originally posted by septic
The building hit the plane in a very concentrated area, something you continuously fail to understand.

Dude, the building wasn't moving. It was rooted to the ground. The plane had all the forward momentum and kinetic energy. The plane hit the building, the building simple absorbed the energy, but the first wall was not strong enough to resist the plane. It took the interior of the building to completely stop the plane's energy.

I guess this is too complicated for you.

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by septic
The building hit the plane in a very concentrated area, something you continuously fail to understand.

Dude, the building wasn't moving. It was rooted to the ground. The plane had all the forward momentum and kinetic energy. The plane hit the building, the building simple absorbed the energy, but the first wall was not strong enough to resist the plane. It took the interior of the building to completely stop the plane's energy.

I guess this is too complicated for you.

I repeat, the building hit the plane at 500 MPH.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by septic

The building hit the plane in a very concentrated area, something you continuously fail to understand.

No it hit the entire airplane. The airplane however did not hit the entire building, just the parts it damaged.

No, parts of the building hit parts of the plane in a 500 mile an hour collision.

The wingtip is not the "whole airplane", is it? The part of the building that struck the tip of the wing at 500 PMH was much more massive than the wing tip. A building moving at 500 MPH, weighing hundreds of thousands of tons more than the jet, wins. Every time. What you saw was impossible.

Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by septic

The building hit the plane in a very concentrated area, something you continuously fail to understand.

No it hit the entire airplane. The airplane however did not hit the entire building, just the parts it damaged.

No, parts of the building hit parts of the plane in a 500 mile an hour collision.

The wingtip is not the "whole airplane", is it? The part of the building that struck the tip of the wing at 500 PMH was much more massive than the wing tip. A building moving at 500 MPH, weighing hundreds of thousands of tons more than the jet, wins. Every time. What you saw was impossible.

You just said yourself that only parts of the building hit parts of the jet. How can you then turn around and say that the whole mass of the building was at work?

reply to post by Varemia

You just said yourself that only parts of the building hit parts of the jet. How can you then turn around and say that the whole mass of the building was at work?

As long as the parts of the building being impacted were still firmly supported by the rest of the building, it's one mass. You guys like to talk about wing spars backing up sheet metal skin, but you really don't like to discuss what holds up a skyscraper to be able to withstand the same force as being rammed by an ocean freaighter.

How can the multiple steel box columns, and a four foot spandrel, as well as a four inch thick concrete floor not obliterate a wingtip at 500 MPH? It was a cartoon, that's how.

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by septic

 

Shouldn't it be possible to prove that it is impossible through a simple model? If you are certain that it is impossible, then you must also know how to prove it, right?

Once again, here it is...

What Happens When Two Things Collide

This selection will show you what happens when two objects crash into each other, or collide.

www.fearofphysics.com/Collide/collide.html

How many times have you ignored this now?

reply to post by ANOK


Once again you should try to understand the difference between elastic and inelastic collisions. Your example website shows elastic collisions. This is what happens when playing pool.

Run the website with the red trucks hitting one another and see if they dent any fenders.

Originally posted by septic

I repeat, the building hit the plane at 500 MPH.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Hey Truther Dude. You know how you said the plane hitting building is the same as the building hitting the plane ? I decided to test that theory using the Truther Big Red Truck & Scooter Physics Calculator. The end results are not the same at all.

Science Experiment 1

Here's what happened in your collision:

The redtruck came into the collision at 40.23 meters per second (90.00 miles per hour)
It left moving at 40.22 meters per second (89.97 miles per hour)
It hardly lost any speed at all!
The scooter came into the collision at -0.00 meters per second (-0.00 miles per hour)
It left moving at 80.45 meters per second (179.96 miles per hour)

Science Experiment 2

Here's what happened in your collision:

The scooter came into the collision at 40.23 meters per second (90.00 miles per hour)
It left moving at -40.22 meters per second (-89.97 miles per hour)
It was jolted so much by the collision that it was sent back in the opposite direction!
The redtruck came into the collision at -0.00 meters per second (-0.00 miles per hour)
It left moving at 0.01 meters per second (0.03 miles per hour)

So much for that Truther Theory.

Maybe inertia does play a part in collisions ?

link

Originally posted by septic
As long as the parts of the building being impacted were still firmly supported by the rest of the building, it's one mass. You guys like to talk about wing spars backing up sheet metal skin, but you really don't like to discuss what holds up a skyscraper to be able to withstand the same force as being rammed by an ocean freaighter.

How can the multiple steel box columns, and a four foot spandrel, as well as a four inch thick concrete floor not obliterate a wingtip at 500 MPH? It was a cartoon, that's how.

Yeah no. That's not how it works at all. The only mass being worked upon was the mass that the plane was coming in contact with. The other mass in the vicinity acted as areas for waves of force to propagate, but the mass being acted upon was that being directly impacted. You cannot factor in the entire building, because the building was at rest, and only the impacted building reacted. If the building was a solid block (which it wasn't, and this is an issue many demolition believers run into as well) then the plane would have had to deal with a larger mass and resistance.

Face it. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you have to rethink your understanding, lest you make yourself look even sillier than you already have.

reply to post by ANOK


How many times have I ignored your link to fearofphysics.com?

not as many times as I have pointed out that it has little relevance, as it simulates a perfectly elastic collision, which by its assumptions, precludes any damage having been done to either body. Not only that, but such an analysis can't tell us anything about damage done to either object, because it leaves out the material composition and structural arrangement of the colliding objects.

So, will you continue to ignore everyone who has told you this, or will you accept that you have been drawing false conclusions from a model that is only intended to be an abstraction?

Or will you continue posting the same link over and over again in an attempt to persuade others that you know something about physics that they do not, despite your continual gaffes and errors? That is the real question.