Huge Mistakes Being Made By OWS

Originally posted by vatel
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

so what is your concept ?
no lab rats, free humans and free spirit ?

Simply to be free enough to live and prosper as I wish as long as I don't interfere with others trying to do the same.

I see the great experiment here in the US as the closest we have come in history. We need to be a good Shepard and keep the wolves out of the flock who would try and force us to conform to their ideologies. We need to reject those who would not allow us to be and do as we wish while knowing that some authority and some controls are needed.

Freedom is not a state of anarchy, nor is it an imposition of undue restrictions on our lives. Whether we believe our rights come from God as I do or that these rights are from Nature, the message to me is the same. Live and let live but recognize when our actions harm another, there must be an authority to protect us from ourselves.

We will never strike a perfect balance and some small portion of us will never be satisfied. There will always be those who wish to force us to live and behave as THEY wish or who have no regard for anothers rights.

I understand that sometimes things I don't agree with are in fact for my own good and in my own best interest.

I reject those who would force their will on everyone else through manipulation and force. Those like the Alinsky Progressives who wish to take over and dictate how we should live and what we should believe. Any form of government that chooses to go beyond the duties so wisely laid out in our Constitution are the problem, not the solution. Sadly there are many who would control us through the State and wish to turn us into a travesty like the former Soviet Union or the current State of China.

To put it quite simply, if anyone wishes to control me and I'm not doing anything that interferes with their freedom, it is they who are wrong and in some cases who are evil. When I see who Obama has surrounded himself with and his cohorts manipulating our children since their takeover of the schools I'm sickened. These are evil men and evil ideas. That they wish to obtain complete control over us is proof their ideas are flawed.

reply to post by daskakik


I don't see it that way. I see the problem being we have this marvelous system that gave us the most free society to ever exist and we have been apathetic. The tools are there for us if we use them wisely. Why do you think those who desired to control us completely are so hell bent on destroying what we have and replacing it with a system by which they can easier control us?

The Anarchists for instance lie. They don't want an everyone for themselves society, they want to control everyone. The Marxists don't want freedom, they want full governmental control and the government to act as our parents without regard for personal freedom to become what we can become. They too lie, even to themselves. They envision themselves as being in charge and have no tolerance for our wants.

Progressives like Obama come to Office to destroy our freedom, not to ensure it. It is our fault they get away with it. With Obama all the warnings were there. Illiteracy elected him.

People like Bush form a dynasty think themselves as a superior class and oddly their desire to control is the same as those we see as their opposites.

Freedom lies in compromise.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

Your posts always seem to come not from the far right or left, but from the ELITIST perspective.

So, blaine, what is your suggestion? Everyones doing it wrong. Do we just accept the status quo like we always do... or, for the FIRST TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY, does the WORLD protest injustices?

If I'm not on the fringe on one side or another, I'm an elitists? I think you say that because the opposite is true. The far right and the far left both wish to force their ideologies on everyone else. The antithesis of freedom. Most of us lie in the middle somewhere. The fringe cannot imagine that there is a middle ground and yet we are the majority.

The world we see on the MSN and on the Internet is not representative of the real world community. It only represents the extremes. Here I grant you there are mostly people at ideological extremes and it may seem that my very normal moderate views are the odd man out, but its not true.

Perhaps what you are truly saying is that I bother you because you cannot pigeonhole me to one side or the other and you want to. There are many more than two sides and two sets of core beliefs. There are many times that.

The corrupt among the politicians have mislead many to believe there are only two sides to this coin when in fact there are many times that. Why paint yourself into a box labeled Right or Left?

We live in a great country under a great system now. We just need honest people in authority over us. What we do not need are more who would force their ideologies on us. We need to let those we elect know that we expect them to serve us, not lord over us. We need to do so without destroying ourselves and our system in the process.

Originally posted by redrose123
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

The biggest mistake I see them making is the fact they are trying to undermine our form of government instead of clean out the criminals who have hi-jacked our form of government.

I agree.

Originally posted by QueSeraSera
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

All excellent ideas. So, how do we get the bought and paid for reps ( both parties, BTW) in Congress to agree to legislate all these overhauls?

The OWS forms its own party and elects its members into Congress, kicking the bums out?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by daskakik

 

I don't see it that way. I see the problem being we have this marvelous system that gave us the most free society to ever exist and we have been apathetic. The tools are there for us if we use them wisely. Why do you think those who desired to control us completely are so hell bent on destroying what we have and replacing it with a system by which they can easier control us?

Ever think that you may be wrong? Maybe this illusion of a free society is the ultimate form of control? Making you feel you have tools to effect change when in reality they are switches and bottons not connected to anything.

You can say you disagree but can you deny that for the last hundred years no matter what the will of the people was the government always did what it wanted? Sometimes flat out telling you that they knew better and at other times using false flags to gather the support that they needed to accomplish their goals.

Soros is financing both the Tea party and OWS
gulagbound.com...
www.economicpolicyjournal.com...
This is AdBusters.
en.wikipedia.org...
From the link: "Mental environmentalists argue that a whole range of phenomena from the BP oil spill to the emergence of crony-democracy to the mass extinction of animals to the significant increase in mental illnesses are directly caused by the three thousand advertisements that assault our minds each day."
It's a psyop.

The way OWS began is questionable. Still, there's an opportunity to create real change IF most people weren't feeling separate from the movement. It's referred to in an "US" and "THEM" way most of the time. "Them" is the protesters. Until more people start creating change and seeing themselves as a part of a global uprising against the .02%, nothing will happen except some police brutality and media spin.

It seems like people are hoping "THEY" get some results. See the separation? It's like being a spectator or a child, just waiting for someone to come and fix the mess. I think 90% of the 99.08% is lacking the initiative to get off the couch or even change their thinking.

The older generations COULD step in and contribute to the movement. It desperately needs some maturity, insight and direction. Instead, the older generations are judging the kids and shaking their heads....but no participation or contribution of their wisdom. Lame......

I hope 'THEY" wake up.

Maybe we could stop using "THEY" and start using "WE". It's not "THEM", it's "US". We are all in the same boat, if no one noticed. If everyone just throws rocks instead of steering and powering the boat, it will sink. Maybe the crew members will cannibalize each other to survive. That's a Soros/Gorbachev wet dream! All the .02% needs to do is divide and conquer. The old right/left, the old 1,2. They are good at it. That's the game.

reply to post by daskakik


What is your plan? Can't really comment unless I know what it is you want?

Same with the OWS, what do they want? Opportunity or more handouts?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by daskakik

 

What is your plan? Can't really comment unless I know what it is you want?

Same with the OWS, what do they want? Opportunity or more handouts?

i don't think a plan is needed to point out what is wrong with the system. I don't really want anything I'm just denying ignorance.

As for OWS, don't mean to sound rude but, it doesn't matter if you understand what they want or not. Your not the one who is going to decide if they are going to get it or not.

I'm just glad to see people waking up. Even if they don't know what they want or how to get it. A big angry mob in the streets is a good first step. It really does make people stand up and take notice. Even if they don't like to admit it.

reply to post by Blaine91555

Due to the fact the movement has no clear message

WRONG!

They are protesting the Purchasing of government representatives by wealthy corporations and individuals.

people from all over are speaking for them and claiming their message.

And some are straw-manning them on conspiracy forums.

Allowing what leadership there is to be controlled by Progressive Organizations, making it logically look as if the movement belongs to them and only to them.

Rage does not belong to any one group.

It is free flowing.

When they did not reject that vocally, they really screwed up.

And that is their strength.... their lack of a central leadership.

Good luck attempting to grab the OCEAN by the horns.

Alienating the media.

So, to you... the media is only the media that is totally controlled and owned by the very people that we are protesting against, eh?


You might as well just scan and post your Government Pay Stub.

One of the things you learn as you mature is that you cannot beat the system

Tell that to George Washington.

but you can learn to use it.

OR completely subvert it.

That works better actually.....

But you seem to want the movement to solidify into a cohesive group with a centralized leadership that can be targeted for destruction or subversion....

Let me know how well that works for you.

If they want their message to get out in a meaningful way they must use every opportunity that arises with the media to get their message out.

You don't go looking for an accurate image of your body, in a funhouse hall of mirrors.

It gives the impression this is just a bunch of immature children which kills any message they might have.

No it doesn't... But I see that *YOU* are trying to make *THAT* the impression that *IS* given to others, aren't you?

Due to rejecting the media it allows others to claim their movement with ease.

You mean the media that ignored them until they realized that they weren't going away, and is now DESPERATE to discredit the movement in any way it can.... much like you are doing?

Not maintaining appearances and order.

Appearances is for the Suits in wall street, hocking snake oil to ignorant politicians.

Not the people who actually shovel the coal... Capice?

Trashing the locations they are at and not self-policing give their opponents all the ammunition they need to minimize them.

And you want to give them MORE ammunition, eh?

By pointing to a single person, and saying:

*THIS IS THE OCCUPY MOVEMENT*

*LOOK UPON HIM AND LAUGH!*


Yeah... right...

They want to be taken seriously they must reject violence and violent people, they must reject any take over by fanatical groups and they must prove their opponents wrong by being cooperative and for god sakes clean up after themselves.

Because only clean people ever say things worthy of listening to....


And I suppose you have a laundry list of complaints for them to address before you give the movement your stamp of approval, eh?


Well, let me go ahead and tell you something right now:

I don't like your Avatar.... so, Until you change it, I don't think anyone should listen to a single word you say.

Every time somebody sees a video of one of them crapping on a car, it drives anyone who matters away and proves their opponents right. It's up to them to see this sort of thing does not happen.

You seem to be forgetting that this is not a organized group of protesters following orders.

This is *CHANGE*

Believe It!

The giant log in their eye is that they have gone after the wrong target.

When the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.

And you should remove the speck from your eye before you go pointing out any logs, eh?

The bad things happening on Wall Street are legal.

And I suppose you think that Murder would be perfectly acceptable if they made it legal, eh?

They are legal because of the the White House and Congress.

Who were Bought out, lock stock and barrel by WALL STREET.

(That's your eye-speck, by the way....)

They want to change Wall Street they would be in DC unless they truly are all illiterate and they are just a bunch of out of control pubescents.

The real power behind Washington D.C. is Wall Street....


Anyone who has been here as long as you appear to have been should already know this.

or maybe you just aren't mature enough for that level of comprehension, eh?

They need to smarten up and prove they have brain cells that function.

Judge not, lest Ye be Judged.

Where am I wrong?

You tried to take the heat off of those who buy and sell our Government.

reply to post by Blaine91555

The giant log in their eye is that they have gone after the wrong target. The bad things happening on Wall Street are legal. They are legal because of the the White House and Congress. They want to change Wall Street they would be in DC unless they truly are all illiterate and they are just a bunch of out of control pubescents.

(Second line)

reply to post by daskakik


Is not ignorance protesting and not knowing about what you are protesting against? Is not protesting the wrong people ignorance? Seems so to me.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


Exactly. Now to get the Mt. Dew out of my nose. Thanks Referring to the Wizard of Oz graphic of course.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


OK, you're just being contrary to be contrary here. My post is about what this movement could accomplish if they had a united voice and knew the facts as opposed to being a disparate group with no message, which reveals their lack of knowledge in not knowing that everything Wall Street and the banks did was legal.

You want to stop the bad guys, you go to DC. We have examples of real protests that had real results. MLK for instance who had a clear message that brought a nation to his side.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Yeah but your the one that doesn't understand what they are protesting. Your the one who thinks they are protesting the wrong people. They are protesting at wall street so that DC can see what they want addressed.

Wall Street is not going to change itself. DC has to change the laws that change Wall Street. Just because they are at Wall street doesn't mean the messege isn't for DC and the rest of the nation.

No clear message huh? Is that what you say? Then what is this?

The Official Declaration Of The General Assembly At #Occupy Wall Street :

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

Adopted, voted on and passed September 29, 2011!

reply to post by daskakik


I understand that there are many messages and that in the polls of the actual protestors one third are willing to engage in violence and half are Democrats who support Obama and the Democratic Party. How is being part of the Obama campaign a movement when he surrounds himself with the same people you claim to hate?

You do know that Congress made what Wall Street did legal, right? You do know that only Congress can fix that right? You are aware that actions Congress took under Franks leadership forced the banks to make the loans that broke our back, right? You do know that Obama and the Democrats controlled the entire government and instead of doing something about it hired the bad guys and rewarded the corrupt unions and people like Imelt with tons of cash, right? You do know that the banks paid back every penny with interest and we made a profit, right? All easily verifiable facts for people who care about this.

Are you for violence? Please be honest here? Are you an Obama campaigner? Do you work for MoveOn or any other Soros backed group or do you approve of their involvement and money? Important questions to know what you truly believe.

You seem to be of the mistaken opinion that anyone not in lock step with your personal ideology is against protest or in particular these protests. I am not. I'm all for it and simply suggesting that not being organized from the start and letting a political party take over half of it is a very bad idea. If a person is for the status quo (Obama and the DNC) how can you protest against it. If a person supports people who are the ones who make this stuff legal and hires them to surround himself, how can you support him and be expecting people to think its real?

I could go on and equal rant about the Bush and the Republicans easily. They are the same.

I'm not your enemy, the protestors are their own worst enemy. They have the floor, now they need to use it. If they are just helping out the current jerk in the White House, tell the truth. We don't need more fakes and phonies.