Biodiesel. Why dont we use it?

reply to post by ANNED


The problemusually stems from the fact that modern diesel systems are incrediblly fine tuned to meet stringent emissions reg's,and the biodiesel can affect pumps injectors and catalytic convertors

reply to post by woogleuk


Not sure if you have the option of dual tanks, but the folks that I have talked to that use waste veg oil, start their vehicle on reg diesel and switch tanks after 3 minutes or so, then run of veg until they are ready to shut down the engine and switch back to diesel for a 3 minute flush to keep any potential veg oil issues at bay..

From memory, they don't convert the oil, but once they get a fresh batch of waste oil in their holding tanks, they let it settle for a few days until the majority of the solids sink to the bottom of their holding tank, then they either drain off the sludge or just siphon from the top...

Other than that, have some spare fuel filters and you are good to go..

I am still taking mental notes on the waste veg oil way to cut the diesel fuel costs before I look into getting a diesel myself, for now the price at the pump is and has been pretty steep.

So far no issues running the waste oil, as long as the warm up and cool down periods are adhered to using reg diesel..

Anyone else around here been trying the same method?




Thinking on it a bit, I remember back when I flipped burgers at McDonalds, during the late shift, we actually ran the frying oils through a pumped filter system to clean it, that could be a better way to eliminate the particulates before transferring the waste oil into your holding tanks... might be sm9oething that you could purchase through an auction for a reasonable price..

Originally posted by Jrosh

The problem you've had with your experience is you are trying to use a fuel that works just fine (how did your truck run on it in warm temperatures) in a system that isn't designed for it. With a whole crap load of emissions devices in your way as well.

So, unless you completely redid your fuel system with the design intent of using biomass based fuel, then i will concede; however, if you have not, then your experience is not arguable.

The truck ran fine in summer. There is a minor drop in efficiency (about 1 MPG, about 5%(?)) because the bio (soybean oil in this case) doesn't have quite as much punch as normal diesel. The event that caught me was an unseasonably early snow storm that was not predicted.

I took apart the fuel system completely myself. I sawed apart the fuel filter to get a look at what had happened. The gel was kind of foamy. It felt and looked like Crisco, very viscous and slippery. In theory this was supposed to go back into solution if it warmed up, but I had it at near room temperature for several days and it never did. You can imagine my fear of ruining the injectors on a $45K truck.

So you are arguing based on a fuel system that does not yet exist. I admit that it COULD, but it doesn't, and retrofitting current systems is, IMO, highly unlikely. It's way too expensive and the fact is, the bio infrastructure can't handle it. I had an E-85 certified truck before this one. I had it for seven years and never put E-85 in it because it wasn't available. The biodiesel dealers I used, two of them, went out of business and both lost a ton of money.

One way to approach this might be to do a blend of say, 20-25%. Current systems could handle it without retrofitting. It would save the 20-25% in petro-diesel, plus use the same infrastructure in use today. I'm certainly not against the issue. I'm a guinea pig in trying to make it work, but it's not just a matter of deciding to switch and have everything turn out peachy.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Jrosh

The problem you've had with your experience is you are trying to use a fuel that works just fine (how did your truck run on it in warm temperatures) in a system that isn't designed for it. With a whole crap load of emissions devices in your way as well.

So, unless you completely redid your fuel system with the design intent of using biomass based fuel, then i will concede; however, if you have not, then your experience is not arguable.

I took apart the fuel system completely myself. I sawed apart the fuel filter to get a look at what had happened. The gel was kind of foamy. It felt and looked like Crisco, very viscous and slippery. In theory this was supposed to go back into solution if it warmed up, but I had it at near room temperature for several days and it never did. You can imagine my fear of ruining the injectors on a $45K truck.

in winter you have to use kerosene biodiesel mixes.
or kerosene biodiesel alcohol mixes.

% BioDiesel %Kerosene Gel temp in F
10 90 -28
20 80 -23
30 70 -17
40 60 -11
50 50 -5
60 40 2
70 30 9
80 20 16
90 10 24
100 0 32

If you plan to use biodiesel in the winter you also need a tank heating system
on type is to have the diesel tank modified with a heating coil run from the truck cooling system so that hot water from the engine runs through the tubing coil in the fuel tank.
the fuel line from the tank is run along side this heater line and wrapped in insulation,

This line also has a coolant heater that can be plugged in or you can use a oil pan block heater mounted to the bottom of the fuel tank.

I have played with using biodiesel in stationary diesel generators for backup power.
biodiesel/kerosene/alcohol does not go bad like regular diesel if stored for a long time,
www.howcleanisyouroil.com...

Originally posted by schuyler

One way to approach this might be to do a blend of say, 20-25%. Current systems could handle it without retrofitting. It would save the 20-25% in petro-diesel, plus use the same infrastructure in use today. I'm certainly not against the issue. I'm a guinea pig in trying to make it work, but it's not just a matter of deciding to switch and have everything turn out peachy.

I know its not just a matter of switching, but if there really is gonna be an oil shortage, or ww3, or iran bumps oil to 250, or whatever sort of a problem in the near future, than its certainly worth a look; I mean if we all know we are gonna have a problem, and there are viable solutions out there, we as a people are the ones that gotta take the reigns. The oilgarchy isnt about to help us...

I think blending would be a great way to transition from one base to another, over time say 10 years or so, it could be phased in to the general populice...

I dislike blends with ethanol, because it makes the fuel hygroscopic, and your never gonna win with water.

It would be great if more people had the ability and will to grow their own food. Not only would it allow for more corn to be used. A healthier diet could be reached which is also a global problem right now.

Another way to go would be syndiesel, synthetically made diesel fuel that can be made from trash, sewage, AG waste, Biowaste

Syndiesel can be made by a process called the Fischer Tropsch process
en.wikipedia.org...

If you are using paper, wood, AG waste or biowaste then you can call the fuel biodiesel.

British airways is setting up to make jet fuel from trash and jet fuel is just high grade diesel.
www.good.is...

Millions of tons of trash are buried in the US every day that could be used for fuel.
and this fuel can be made for about $60 a barrel.
But since oil sells for about $90 a barrel in the US the oil companies will try to block anyone that tries to use trash to make fuel.

there is already alot of alternative to oil and so since many years but strangely, oil still dominate world energy needs. magnetic, electric motors are also a very good energy but oil is control and power so it's hard to replace it, elites are the most powerful mafia of the world

reply to post by Nightstalker44


Because it costs more money and energy to convert vegetables into biodiesel than it does to process crude oil. Not to mention the damage to rubber gaskets and plastic piping the higher the percentage of ethanol in your gas.

Originally posted by ANNED

Millions of tons of trash are buried in the US every day that could be used for fuel.
and this fuel can be made for about $60 a barrel.
But since oil sells for about $90 a barrel in the US the oil companies will try to block anyone that tries to use trash to make fuel.

Are you speaking of the methane landfills create? Because, FINALLY, cattlemen are storing and selling methane from live cows and steers.