Zionist and the bloodline of Tubal-Cain

Hold on, let me quick draw up a chart contradicting everything you just said and attribute it to somebody else and use it as "proof".

Some people will go to any lengths to prop up their delusions and prejudices.

Originally posted by fordrew

Originally posted by Turkenstein

Originally posted by fordrew
Why are people supporting 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion' when it has been thoroughly debunked as a fraudulent document? Culturally significant? That is just plain sad to call it that. It is nothing but a straight up plagiarized fictional document... very sad to see that ATS still believes it is real.

The book may be fake but the infiltration/manipulation over the years is not.

That is of your opinion. Don't get me wrong, Zionists are monsters, but I do not think they have a secret agenda. They want 'their' land back, but that is not a secret. They are monstrous because of the fact that they want their land, and they create war for it. Needless war, and they commit many war crimes on a daily basis. If they decided to just live peacefully and slowly take it over through occupation and migration towards the territory there would be no war.

edit on 19-10-2011 by fordrew because: (no reason given)

It's not their land. They are from the central european mountains area from what I read.

Originally posted by jtap66
Some people will go to any lengths to prop up their delusions and prejudices.

So far, all you have done is assert that the Protocols are a forged document. I think you may be prejudiced too.

"The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived opinion, by prejudice." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer

If you think the diagram is wrong then explain yourself. We are asked all the time on ATS for sources and the poster has provided one. If you think Gardiner is wrong and are familiar with his work then fire away. If you don't know (like me) then you look to me like you are making blind assertions from a pre-conceived position.

I for one don't have a clue....

Originally posted by Turkenstein
It's not their land. They are from the central european mountains area from what I read.

Even if they were descended from the Biblical Israelites it isn't their land!

The Israelites of the bible were only residents there for a short period in the history of Palestine. The Palestinians have been there for many thousands of years as have several cultural groups at various times. The Zionist claim that the place belongs to the Jews is based on a biblical passage written by a Hebrew Jewish scribe.

Most Jews probably aren't descended from the Israelites anyway. The claim is pure and dangerous BS.

reply to post by Lynda101


I will try to explain my understanding as follows. If you examine ancient records/mythology around the world you will find that there was once a great war between the “gods”, they split and two factions formed both hating eachother.

According to their following you would favour one side over the other and this would be reflected later in your peoples historical documents.

I will give you an example, if you examine ancient Indian Vedic text you will find that they talk about the battle between the diva (gods) and the asura (daemons). They obviously felt that the deva were the righteous ones in the battle and the asura were malevolent i.e. they are clearly pro deva.

If you now examine the Zoroastrian text you will find that their leader is Ahura (Asura) Mazda and that they feel that the deva are malevolent /daemons ie they are clearly pro Asura.

If you follow either of these two religions you will be left with the understanding that the other is evil. Remember there is always two sides to any story!

Now the old testament book in general is a pro Jehovah book, call him what you want, El Elyon, El Shaddai, Enlil or Zeus it promotes the deva and calls the Asura daemons (the pre adamic race).

The chief daemon is obviously Satan, the word simply meaning chief adversary of Jehovah who is also known as enki or Poseidon i.e. he represents the Asuras.

Generally if your peoples were pro asura the winged disc vimana emblem (the mark of the asura) will feature heavily in their art i.e. Egyptians, Sumerians etc.

Jehovah is not “GOD” as you now understand this word, he is not the creator of the universe. He is in actual fact Satan’s, enki/posideons brother! Both of which are mortal flesh and blood, lived their lives and died.

Now onto the battle, you are told that Jehovah punished the pre-adamic race because they were evil, well its obvious the bible will say that because it elevates the actions of Enlil and his followers (the deva) whilst calling Enkis followers (Asuras) evil.

Onto the battle:

“the war between the Titans and Olympians raged on for ten years in a sort of stalemate, until Zeus "no longer restrained his soul, but straightway his mind was filled with fury and he showed forth all his might." His bolts "flew near at hand" with thunder and with lightning, while in his hands he was "rolling a holy flame." It crashed as it "burned the life-giving earth," and the "infinite wood cried aloud with fire." The oceans "seethed and boiled" as volcanoes (Cottus, Briareus and Gyes) hurled rocks by the hundreds. Once defeated, the warlike Titans are bound and imprisoned forever in Tartarus, a mythological prison far beneath the "waves of the restless ocean" in the far West.

www.atlantisquest.com...

And so Atlantis was destroyed and its pro Poseidon (asura) inhabitants sank to the bottom of the ocean! Some survived however and a great migration took place and wherever you see pyramids and winged discs you know they were there.

The ancient Egyptians would later talk about how the “gods” came into Egypt because their homeland was destroyed by a great flood.

Zeuse, Jehovah or Indra in the Indian text is the deva who ended the ten year war by launching his thunderbolt at the asuras city.

I told you that Japheth’s descendants were of the pre adamic race whilst Shems descendants were of the Adamic race. To understand this we have to go back further to the origin of the two bloodlines.

Tubal-Cain is Japheths father and is a bloodline descendant of Cain. Eve gave birth to Cain, Able and Seth. As we know Cain murdered Able so he had no children. That leaves us with Seth and Cain.

Seths father was Adam and Adam himself was “created” Seths descendants were therefore of the adamic race.

Cain was the son of Eve also however his father was not Adam, his father was Samael (enki/Poseidon). The descendants of cain are therefore not of the Adamic race and we have two bloodlines. Cains descendants are the Asuras.

You will note that the freemasons honour Tubal-Cain, that is because they know this history well and are essentially pro Asura. In antiquity the atlantian Asura were more technologically advanced then others and there descendants responsible for most of the marvels of the ancient world. Even today the goyim are responsible for most of the inventions you see around you, including that computer your reading this on and the electricity that runs it.

reply to post by Pimander


So I can write up a chart and make a baseless claim that attributes to someone - without a shred of proof - and that'll just wrap everything up?

Something tells me that if I typed up a statement that UFOs are real and signed it "General Frank D. Whatshisface" it wouldn't fly as "proof" of anything, let alone alien life.

I think some people are inclined to believe a premise based on a false document if it props up their prejudices.

I saw the movie Thor, which was a work of fiction. If a meteor crashes in the New Mexico desert, can I show video of it and claim that it validates the movie Thor as a factual account? A few coincidences between a work of total fiction and unproven information doesn't magically change that fiction to fact, and it doesn't make the other fictional accounts any more real.

The Protocols were proven a fraud long ago. If you want to spout your Zionist mumbo-jumbo, then don't include them in the discussion, as it invalidates your argument. Let the video stand alone, until someone debunks that, too. By insisting that a (supposedly) factual viseo somehow validates a proven fraudulent document, you're proving nothing more than the fact that you don't know how facts, a proper argument and the validation of said facts and argument work.

I wonder how many of you who state that the protocols are fake actually bothered to watch the video, and those of you that did would you like to state what statements made in that video was false?

reply to post by jtap66

You don’t even need the chart. I have already shown that the term “goyim” means blood descendants of Japheth i.e. Europeans!

reply to post by LUXUS


The other dude also showed goyim was used in several other cases. How did you explain that?

reply to post by jjkenobi


It's easy:

The facts that invalidate their argument are lies.

The YouTube video is the rosetta stone of anti-zionist mumbo-jumbo, and must not be called into dispute.

In conclusion: years of research proving the Protocols a hoax are invalid. A YouTube video some guy made is fact beyond reproach. It's easy when you abandon fact and logic and think like someone who just wants their beliefs propped up.

reply to post by jjkenobi




As far as I’m aware all the mentions of the word goyim in the Bible are covered and explained in the text I quoted.
www.blogtalkradio.com...

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

Just because somebody says Zionism is anti-Semitic that does not make it so. What kind of reasoning is that?

By the same token just because something an anti-Zionist has said anti-Semitic things does NOT make all anti-Zionists anti-Semitic. That's like saying some Americans are racist bigots so all Americans are racist. It just isn't true.

Israel is committing crimes against humanity daily. That isn't the fault of all Jewish people. Israel has a weak basis for it's existence. That is not a slur on Jewish people, it is a statement of fact about the country called Israel.

Any intelligent free thinking person can see that I'm right and you are just spewing propaganda. The truth is on my side here.

Do Israeli agents post on all these threads?

Originally posted by jtap66
reply to post by Pimander

 

So I can write up a chart and make a baseless claim that attributes to someone - without a shred of proof - and that'll just wrap everything up?

I'm not defending the chart. I'm saying you haven't consulted the work it is from and have nothing to go on but a baseless denial. I'm saying you have no clue about it and it appears that I'm correct. I know more about it than you but can't argue for or against it.

Originally posted by jtap66
The Protocols were proven a fraud long ago. If you want to spout your Zionist mumbo-jumbo, then don't include them in the discussion, as it invalidates your argument. Let the video stand alone, until someone debunks that, too. By insisting that a (supposedly) factual viseo somehow validates a proven fraudulent document, you're proving nothing more than the fact that you don't know how facts, a proper argument and the validation of said facts and argument work.

The document may well not be what it purports to be. However, it is significant as what is written in it has happened and is happening. Or don't you know that?

If you want to pretend the document doesn't matter then carry on wandering around with your eyes tightly shut and pretend reality isn't happening. It doesn't matter to me.

And don't accuse me of spouting Zionist mumbo-jumbo as you're arguing with the wrong person.

P.S. Beforeyou attack someone it is worth reading their posts so you know what they actually stated rather than attacking them for what you imaging them to have stated. Bloody hell....

The word “goyim” specifically relates to Japheths blood decedents who founded the white European nations. Another word to describe these people would be the Aryans.

I showed you that Shem and Ham's descendants are also goyim. Here are some more goyim for you:

Gen 17:5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.

Israelites and Ishmaelites = NOT EUROPEANS

Gen 26:4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed.

Earth can be understood globally or locally (i.e. the Middle-East). In other words, NOT (exclusively) EUROPEANS.

Ex 34:24 For I will cast out nations before you and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land, when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.

Refers to the conquest of Canaan, i.e. NOT EUROPEANS.

Lev 18:23-25 And you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is perversion. Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.

Refers to the conquest of Canaan, i.e. NOT EUROPEANS.

Deut 7:1 When the Lord your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girga#es, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than yourselves,

Hittites, Girga#es, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites are NOT EUROPEANS.
(Also, Girga#e is apparently a swear word. Learn something new every day.)

I'm bored with the Torah, let's try some writings or prophets....

Judges 2:21-22 I will no longer drive out before them any of the nations that Joshua left when he died, in order to test Israel by them, whether they will take care to walk in the way of the Lord as their fathers did, or not.

Refers to Levantine peoples that were not defeated during Joshua's conquest, i.e. NOT EUROPEANS.

II Sam 8:11 These also King David dedicated to the Lord, together with the silver and gold that he dedicated from all the nations he subdued,

Unless King David conquered Europe, these goyim are NOT EUROPEANS.

I could go on. There is not one whit of documentary evidence that goyim is the name for white Europeans and/or the bloodline of Japheth exclusively. Honestly, the idea that the primitive Jahwists and Elohists, or the Deuteronomists or Priests that cleaned up their stories-- or anyone in Israel at all before the Hellenistic era--would be interested enough in Europe to polemicize them through code in their religious scripture is sort of eurocentric. They had their own problems with local enemies and cults in competition with the Jerusalem temple. Why would they bother to mythologize a bunch of pale people in a faraway land and then carry on some sort of bizarre vendetta against them (but not really start the vendetta until Zionism emerged thousands of years later)?

reply to post by Pimander


Thanks for proving the point in the quotes I used.



And you just called MLK Jr. an unintelligent, non-free thinking, propaganda spewing person.

Nice job.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

No I did not. I said he was wrong about Zionism. I stand by that.

His comparison with Africans is a spurious one. The Israelites are not the rightful rulers of Palestine. It's that simple.

"...the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." ~ Quoted in Arago, Eulogy of Galileo (1874)

reply to post by Pimander


Well, since you bring it up . . . who is the rightful rulers?

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Pimander

 

Well, since you bring it up . . . who is the rightful rulers?

Who says I think anyone has the right to rule?

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
And you just called MLK Jr. an unintelligent, non-free thinking, propaganda spewing person.

Nice job.

Perhaps I should clarify further.

Martin Luther King was intelligent, a great communicator and did so much for civil rights. I love and respect what the man did for the people of the world. May he RIP.

There is, however, an aspect to MLK's thinking that is absolutely not free. Yes it is also linked to propaganda. That is his dependence on the Bible as his primary source of knowledge. He believed the Bible to be the word of God and an authority over all other work. In that he was wrong and that is the source of his misconceptions about Zionism.

It is a common feature, especially religious fundamentalists, to be intelligent and excellent communicators. However their reliance on scripture for all guidance on right or wrong is foolish.

I have no problem with spirituality at all. However the modern manifestations of the big organised Judeo- Christian religions are too formalised, and their scriptures are politically manipulated. They are harmful to humanity.

"Without [religion] you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."