Hamas frees Israel's Gilad Shalit in prisoner swap

reply to post by dontreally


Well, you're coming off as a ranting Zionist. And don't try and paint a pretty picture for Israel as if they're saints. I'm not going down that political road with you. What you fail to understand is the definition of insanity you posted. This is the first time something like this as ever been done, so it is different. Unlike the rhetoric you're spouting.

reply to post by FlySolo


Actually Israel has done this insanity before. Arab-Israel prisoner exchange


They did it in 2000 where 430 murderers were set free for 3 dead bodies. #ing insane, yet Israel does it.

In 1985, Israel freed 1,150 prisoners in exchange for three Israeli soldiers kidnapped in Lebanon by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)-General Command.


As for the stupidity of "this has never been done before". No, Israel has made concessions to Hamas - the party they negotiated - before. Gush Katif being the main example.

When someone gets screwed by someone else, whats usually emphasized? How they were screwed? or the person who screwed them? This is basic logic. The person who screws you once you nver negotiate with again. And yet Israel continues, in defiance to basic logic, to negotiate with Hamas.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Yes I have lived in Israel Thankyou very much very much. I didn't say I did it legally. I worked illegally like thousands of other under the counter workers employed there.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Don't let your indignant rage lose on me bully boy. I am merely re-telling what I have seen with my own eyes, at that time. I do not believe the press in unbiased when it comes to reporting anything from the middle east. As I mentioned earlier I AM NOT IN FAVOUR OF EITHER SIDE. Nor do I support killing in innocents, or directly provocation by settling on others land, using kids or terrorism. Once again I recounted what I witnessed with my own eyes, if that dosn't agree with your belief then tuff.

reply to post by dontreally


Then I stand corrected. May I ask, are you pro bibi?

reply to post by FlySolo


The entire Israeli establishment is as corrupt as the rest of them; in America, in Britain, in Europe, in Russia. Everywhere, the establishments worldwide are corrupt. Israels leaders are special in that they specifically seek to destroy their own state.

Am i a Zionist? Damn right, i am. I am in the most basic sense of "Jews belong to Eretz Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael belongs to the Jew". Im not Jewish. Im a student of history, of religion, and of politics.

Bibi is a mockery to the memory of his brother - Yonaton Natanyahu, who was a TRUE Zionist, in the sense of having a religious affinity with Zionism and a spiritual closeness with the land of Israel. Zionism, is Judaism. The Maccabeans were Zionists par-excellence; as were the million Judeans who revolted and died in 135 CE against the Roman invaders. If Zionist means a Jew has a right to the land of his origin, and has a right to reject, nay, oppose the corrupt gnostic muslim and christian powers that have prevented his return, then i am a Zionist, i am not afraid to say i am, and i am in the moral right by recognizing what is owed by western man to the Jewish people.

The Arabs can have the lands of their ancestors, but Israel, is not their land. They only entered it in the 8th century; nearly two millenia after the Jews. They never once has a distinct kingdom there. Palestine was a cruel ploy of Hadrian and the Roman Nobles to rename the land of Judea after the Jews biblical enemies: the Philistines. So, Palestine initself is a fictitious idea. A Palestinian people identified with an Arab identity is even more ludicruous. The fact that Israels leaders recognize a Palestinian people is itself a testament to their corruption.

Israels leaders are working with their exoteric enemies. Most anti-zionists have no knowledge of that because they have no understanding of the history of the Jewish people; the sabbatean/Frankist heresy in the 17th and 18th centuries, and the massive fissure between the religious traditionalist Judaism and the modern, secular-gnostic Jewish leader. People who dont get this dont arrive at the correct context of the situation. They dont get that Israels own leaders; both the non-religious secular politicians and the reform/conservative rabbi who denies the divinity of Torah and Judaism, work with the historical persecutor of the Jew - Christian and Muslim, in effecting the spiritual dissolution of the Judaic religion. This is actually a staple of Alice Bailys Theosphy - which is established at the UN through Lucis Trust.

This is why i am less convinced than others by whats going on. The design of this echange is to weaken the Israeli spirit and resolve. This is clearly unjust, but peace is being raised above and idolized and worshipped despite the sheer insanity of doing so. Peace Now - Shalom Achshav in Hebrew. Could there be a more deprecating call? Judaism has always been about Shalom; peace, and Sholem - wholeness. The gnostics pervert this Jewish feeling by directing it in insane ways. Peace with implaccable enemies? peace with people who have vowed to destroy you? Its the peace of the Qurayza, as Yasser Arafat famously said. Its a fake peace, a phony and long drwn out war of attrition designed to weakness Jewish resolve to Israel, while simultaneously strenthening the Arab Palestinian conviction that Israel is theirs.

Sickens me. Do i like Benjamin Natanyahu? I hate him. I hate his fakeness and his cruelty to his own people.

A rare look into the Israeli prison system.

reply to post by dontreally


That's a point I've never known before. Not even my old friends in Israel mentioned any of that. Where can I read up on this?

Originally posted by CountDrac
reply to post by Skellon

 

Well im not sure i would argue with that statement. Not because i believe it that arabs are not worth as much as israelis, but because of the way the Arab and muslim countries treat their own people.
It seems like the muslim countries dont think their citizens are worth much at all by the way their governments are killing them in the streets...

While israel thinks and treats there citizens like they are the most precious substance on earth. 1000 for 1 OMG...

I wish i was an israeli citizen.

Well you're disgusting as far as being an American citizen goes so I say good riddance to bad rubbish,

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

reply to post by k0mbination


Whats the view youve never seen before??

Many Jews know what i know. Its nothing unique persay. You find similar views in Barry Chamash's writings. A Rabbi Antelman wrote a book called the "to eliminate the opiate", documenting the conspiracy within the Jewish world - by its liberal intelligentsia - to destroy Judaism (marx "opiate") from within. He makes a convincing case. Eugene Narret is another writer i find myself to have alot in common with. He discusses the nature of western civilization by analyzing its literature (he was a professor of English as Colombia at one time)

But more or less you would have to read all the books that i have read; all the books on Gnosticism; Blavatasky, Frithjof Schuon, Crowley, Rene Guenon, etc etc,.. I probably have a more general conception of whats going on than the writers i listed above. Although i derive mcuh from their writings.

The basic premise is this: There are two separate religions in the world. The perennial philosophy, as enunciated by various writers; Huxley, Blavatasky, Bailey, Schuon, Guenon, Coomaraswamy, etc, verses Hebraism, as enunciated by Rabbi Elijah Benamozegh in his book "Israel and humanity".

The two conceptions are alike in important ways, but conflict in other ways. They deviate from each other primarely in regards to mans relationship with God, and mans purpose in this world. Judaism is stirctly legalistic; although underlied by a profound metaphysics and esoteric dimension, it emphasizes the importance of action.

All other religions conversely, Christianity and Islam primarely, have a somewhat relativistic approach to morality. Sexuality in itself isnt corrupt; whats corrupt is mans 'lower conception' of it. If his mind were attached to the spirituality, and disconnected from the materialistic, it would be fine. This i agree is true; we should focus on the spirituality and meaningul aspect of sex. But what are some practical conseqences of this philosophy? Arab culture should present some inkling of it; Sensualism (as in belly dancing), as essentially most things are deemed appropriate. Islam is a dualistic religion, with an inner and outer nature. Its a saying of the Hadith that at the end of time one who fullfill one tenth of the Koran will be serving his purpose, whereas now, in mans current existential state, he has to fullfill 9/10ths. This basically means when man frees his mind from lower materialistic forms, he will be able to freely engage anything, regardless of the action.

Judaism - the religion directly derived from Hebraism - looks at the world in a similar way, but with a particular catch: The Jews say man has to follow 7 universal laws; one of which prohibits sexual profligance, which means all actions of a necessarily depraved nature. So whereas in Islam, pornography could be sanctioned and made permissible, in Judaism, it is categorically outlawed; initself, corrupt and animalistic.

So the distinctions are subtle and really only understood by scholars of religion. Judaism is very different. The Jewish system of metaphysics, opposed in many ways to traditional religion. The perennialists; that is, all other religious manifestations, from Christianity, to Islam, to Hinduism to Buddhism, all oppose the strict moralism of Judaism.

Although it should be mentioned, Hinduism and Buddhism have had little or no contact with Judaism, so they have no connection to the metaphysical antipathy held by Christians and Muslims against their Jewish inhabitants. These two - Christianity and Islam are much closer than people understand.

page 6 so I guess im late to the party.

this is a conspiracy site no? so can anyone answer the million dollar question on this one, what did this one guy know that was worth 1000 people?

=/ or am I missing the point here?

reply to post by whatsinaname


Israel once traded 430 prisoners for 3 dead bodies.

They are stupid. Gilad Shalit knew nothing, was a 19 year old seargent when he was kidnapped.

I guess Israel just likes letting others rob them blind??

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


"Shotgun Bob" huh? It's an SKS for your information, and your veiled attack wasn't as sly as you thought.

Yes, some of the Palestinian prisoners were women, and some were teenagers; and they were ALL criminals. One woman mentioned in the story below tried to stab an Israeli policeman. There is another woman, who was a teenager when she committed her crime, who had been held by the Israelis that I know of (I'm sure there are others.) Know what her crime was? She tried to enter Israel wearing a suicide vest that she intended to use to murder the Israeli doctors and nurses who had been treating her disfiguring burns (from a cooking accident) - for FREE.

This is what Hamas does. They indoctrinate children to hate the Jews from the time they are babies, and tell them that if they kill a Jew - or many - that they will go to paradise. That is exactly how they sucked the suicide bomber into their death cult; they told her that no man would ever want a disfigured wife, and that her only hope to go to Heaven was to kill some Jews. Nice guys huh?

As far as Gilad Shalit goes, thank God he's finally been freed; but I fear the psychological damage that has been done to him, along with torture and starvation, has affected him in ways that most of us will never understand. My prayers are with him and his family.

He was "well treated?" BULL#! Just look at him in this interview on CNN. He looks as though he was just released from Auschwitz! Don't you tell me how humanely Hamas treats their prisoners unless you want to be labeled a liar. Hamas is a brutal gang, and I wouldn't shed a single tear if every one of them gets a Hellfire right up their stovepipe.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


I see an israeli TV station making a TV show talking about issues and wrong doings in one of the jails in israel.
I think this shows that the israeli society is moral and ethical if it is able to judge itself.

Do you think the iranians or syrians would be allowed to make a show judging their government or jail systems and put it on their TV station?

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by OldCorp

 

Honestly, WHAT in Gods name is wrong with your thinking???

If someone murdered your brother, would you be willing to have that man go free for one person who was kidnapped? Now what if there were 450 separate cases of this, where hundreds were killed, in a society struggling against terrorism.

Its INSANE!!!!!!! These #ing people are manically off their rockers, and the only ones in Israel seeing this for what it is is the religious-right wing of the country. This is the most perverse corruption of morality i have ever seen. NO MURDERER should be freed to save one life; especially not 450. Honestly . He took lives already. If anything, Israel should have grown some balls, gone into Gaza and take out whoever needed to be taken out to get Gilad Back.

Too late. Israel has once again mocked the intelligence of its people. Like i said above. Lets wait a few monthsfor the world to forget - ohhh how despots love forgetfulness - and we'll definitely see an increase in kidnappings or an increase in terrorism.

Every person killed from terrorism is a Gilad Shalit.

I haven't forgotten anything brother. The fact is, the innocent people who were killed at the hands of these animals are still going to be dead; but Israel had the chance to save one innocent life and they took it. What will happen in the future with the freed terrorists is anyone's guess. They may very well try to commit more terrorist acts, and they may also be killed in the attempt before they can take more innocent life (one can only hope.) But by freeing those terrorists, as distasteful as it is, Gilad Shalit is alive and now has the chance to live a somewhat normal life.

I share your feelings, I do; but if Israel had abandoned this boy to the tender mercies of Hamas, wouldn't that make them just as bad?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
A rare look into the Israeli prison system.

I don't know what your intentions were with the posting of this video, but I can tell you what I took away from it.

The Israelis burst into the prison to conduct a search for weapons and other forbidden objects. This is normal, and done in every prison in the world. That part of the operation was effective with no injuries; but other wings in the prison began to riot and force was escalated.

The Israelis were armed with "less than lethal" weaponry; some with paintball guns, others with what I believe are rubber bullets. AGAINST ORDERS, one Palestinian was shot in the head and died. This is a sad thing, especially since he was due to be released in a few days.

The Israeli soldier with the microphone was practically begging for the prisoners to come out and lay down. I lost count of how many times he said, "This is your last chance. Come out and surrender and you won't be harmed."

If this is supposed to be Arab propaganda, it's pretty lame. Nothing happened in that prison that doesn't happen in a US prison every day to some extent. One person was killed as a result of this normal, everyday operation that went askew when the prisoners decided to riot and set fire to the prison. I can't help but wonder though: Would he be alive if he had followed instructions to lay down?

There was NO brutality in this video, and if that is what you were hoping to depict, you have failed in the most epic fashion. Like I said, this operation was completely normal. They do it here in the US all of the time.

reply to post by k0mbination


You talk rubbish and don't I know it! You may have visited Israel for a short visit but you definately have not lived there. Nor have you visited any Gazan hospitals or Israeli ones for that matter. In fact, you have never been to Israel or Gaza at any given time the IDF invaded Gaza either by ground or air forces. All you have seen are little pictures on the internet.

The likes of you always rub the Israelis in to the ground but when Arab murders Arab it's as if your mouths go numb and mute.

Strange how so many of your lot fail to also mention the foreigner "aid" workers and journalists that have been murdered by Hamas. Strange how you fail to mention how Hamas uses their own people as human shields while carrying out their lethal game against Israel. And you sure as hell fail to mention the murders of Israelis by Palestinian terrorists but we might hear a squeak out of you if an Indonesian terrorist murders tourists from Australia, USA and Britain. Terrorists should be exterminated whenever possible no matter where they are at any price.

This will be the first and last time Israel ever hands over 1027 live terrorists, make no mistake about that.

reply to post by OldCorp


Amen brother!

By year's end there will be afew of those released prisoners that will end up 6 feet under. By next year's end I'm guessing around 30% of them will have their last breath.

The Shin Bet says 60% of these bastards that are released always return to terror. Israel knows what to expect and they'll be waiting for them.

reply to post by dontreally


The Hindu's have had some connection with the Jews......

Bombay (now Mumbai) was home to many tens of thousands of Persian, Babylonian and Afghani Jews as it was to the Muslims at one time. There is much history of the two religions co-operating together trading and shipping. It was quite a colourful past.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Well i meant in a substantial way.

Yes, the Hindus, aswell as the Chinese have been kind to the Jews and the Jews never had problems with either of them.

The real relationship the Jews have had is with the Christians - Ashkenazim and Sephardim (in spain), and the Sephardim and Mizrahim in Muslim North Africa, the Middle east and Persia. . .

Only the Muslims and Christians seem to consider it important enough - as a matter of theology (or metaphysics) to subjugate the Jew.

Muslims in general reduce all non-muslims to Dhimmis. But they always treated the Jews just a little worse than they did the Christians. And as for the Christians themselves. Jews have sufferred much more horribly under them than the Muslims, but people mistakingly confuse the horrific christian treatment and conclude they were the bd guys , while the Muslims were the 'nice' guys, to the Jews. There are plenty of books documenting the sufferring of Jews in Muslim lands; and the sufferring was thorough.