Hamas frees Israel's Gilad Shalit in prisoner swap

reply to post by OldCorp


Honestly, WHAT in Gods name is wrong with your thinking???

If someone murdered your brother, would you be willing to have that man go free for one person who was kidnapped? Now what if there were 450 separate cases of this, where hundreds were killed, in a society struggling against terrorism.

Its INSANE!!!!!!! These #ing people are manically off their rockers, and the only ones in Israel seeing this for what it is is the religious-right wing of the country. This is the most perverse corruption of morality i have ever seen. NO MURDERER should be freed to save one life; especially not 450. Honestly . He took lives already. If anything, Israel should have grown some balls, gone into Gaza and take out whoever needed to be taken out to get Gilad Back.

Too late. Israel has once again mocked the intelligence of its people. Like i said above. Lets wait a few monthsfor the world to forget - ohhh how despots love forgetfulness - and we'll definitely see an increase in kidnappings or an increase in terrorism.

Every person killed from terrorism is a Gilad Shalit.

reply to post by Drezden


Let me repeat.....

Some Palestinian terrorist/prisoners were handed over to Fatah in the West Bank, others were handed over to Hamas in Gaza. It was Fatah that took their lot to Yasser Arafat's grave!

Gilad's first stop after he was handed to the Israelis was right in to the arms of his father.

reply to post by dontreally


I don't question whatsoever your view, but I would like you to supply some figures to back up the numbers you give. So, say for the year 2009 and 2010. do you have the numbers of deaths of Israelis and Palestinians for these two years caused directly by this warfare conducted between both sides. I am just interested in the figures, not the arguments as to whether an act was considered terrorist or whatever by the other side. I am sure you understand what I am asking about.

I am delighted that Gilad Shalit is home with his family and that the Palestinians are home with their families. I hope it will ease the situation and lead to better relations in Israel.

reply to post by Lynda101


Excuse me for LOL'ing at your cliche naivete. '

Linda, this will NEVER lead to peace. Dont play games. Be realistic. Hamas will be attacking Israel as soon as this blows over and people "forget" - that magical talent idiots have for not remembering something that happened in the past. Hamas will attack, or possibly kidnap more Israelis. Whats to stop them from kidnapping 5 Israelis? Surely Marwan Barghoutti would be released then. And the critics will hail it as promoting peace!

450 men being released are in prison for murdering Israelis. The other 550+ are there for various terrorist related activities.

This is just sad. As a sane person, who looks at this, i cannot but be saddenned that Israelis are being subjected to such humiliating treatment by their secular/leftist government. It is sad. In no other country or place would this exchange be treated as normal, of even sane. But in Israel, its a good thing.

Im even having trouble really caring that Gilad Shalit is back in Israel. The cost was obnoxious. Just thinking about it - 1027 different individuals, for 1 person. It makes my blood boil.

Im sorry, as a Zionist, as someone who believes in the right of the Jewish people to their own state, this wasnt the sane reasoning of a nation who believes in its right to be there. This was an insane capitulation to terrorism, evil, and corruption.

This is a repulsive corruption of basic reason. And Jews - the most reasonable people i can think of - this is a complete mockery of Jews by their non Jewish - or rather, 'Jewish in name only' government, who would do much worse than this, i am sure, to mock the Jewish state.

reply to post by dontreally


Only those who have sons, especially those who are in the military, will have some understanding of why this swap had to go ahead.

No one can bring back the dead but they can bring home a LIVE soldier. I can understand the mentality of families who lost loved ones who were against the swap but no nation in their right minds should allow a POW to rot in captivity. Sacrificing one of your own through fear of the unknown is immoral. No one can predict what any one of those Palestinian terrorists/prisoners will do tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but one thing is for sure that an Israeli (or any other national) has a greater chance of dying of a heart attack or getting killed on the roads than being killed or murdered by a terrorist. If we were to fear or predict what tomorrow would bring, we'd never leave our houses.

In life we have to take chances and there is no guarantee of anything. I'm not happy with the deal either, no one is, but if it is to bring home a young man back in to the arms of his family then so be it. Tomorrow is another day and we'll deal with it!

Enough said?

Originally posted by Skellon
I think the terrorists are believing that they are getting a great deal while not really noticing the symbolic nature of this trade. Some can interpret this as 1 Israeli is worth 1,000 Arabs.

If some of the media is to believed, then US and Israel are on alert regarding this trade as they expect some significant reprisal.

We will have to wait and see.


Regards, Skellon.

While that might be the normal train of thought, I just watched on the news how 200,000 people (civilians) were celebrating in the streets for the returned Palestines. For them, this is a great day; to be reunited with loved ones. You must remember the human nature element in this monumental move. All it takes is one extraordinary act of kindness to disarm hostile intentions. Be it one-on-one, or a whole nation.

While radicalism runs rampant, we are all cut from the same cloth.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Lynda101

 

Excuse me for LOL'ing at your cliche naivete. '

Linda, this will NEVER lead to peace. Dont play . Be realistic. Hamas will be attacking Israel as soon as this blows over and people "forget" - that magical talent idiots have for not remembering something that happened in the past. Hamas will attack, or possibly kidnap more Israelis. Whats to stop them from kidnapping 5 Israelis? Surely Marwan Barghoutti would be released then. And the critics will hail it as promoting peace!

While reading I'm thinking "he who looks under the bed, hides under the bed"

Im even having trouble really caring that Gilad Shalit is back in Israel. The cost was obnoxious. Just thinking about it - 1027 different individuals, for 1 person. It makes my blood boil.

And I was correct. You only disagree with this because you would never consider the potential of positive influence it may create. It's almost scary because now I know with you, a good deed would not go unpunished.
It's really 6 or 1/2 of a dozen anyway. Radicalism will never stop on its own and it makes no difference if these prisoners were kept in jail. It's infinite!

With all do respect, your line of thinking is like a hamster in a wheel.

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by torsion
But the 1000+ prisoners are not being released to freedom they are being released to Gaza which is effectively an Israeli controlled concentration camp.

Yes, of course.

Maybe if you ever took the time to actually research what Gaza is really like, you would have a clue of what you're talking about.

Better yet, visit Gaza in person. Oh, and while you're there, pick me up a pair of Armani shoes and a Hugo Boss suit for a good price in one of their shopping malls, I'll pay you when you get back.

edit on 18-10-2011 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)

Been there. Was too busy providing medical treatment to palestinian civilians wounded by israelis and helping bury the palestinians that werent lucky enough to survive israeli attacks. Seen fully what damn israeli's do to palestinians and how palestinians in gaza are forced to live by damn israeli's... I've got friends there who keep me updated on what goes on as well.
And it damn sure isnt tea and roses as you israeli supporters try to make people believe..

Originally posted by CountDrac
reply to post by mayabong

 

ya, but why should israel give a rats A S S about what the arabs do in their countries

Why is Israel so worried about Iran developing Nuclear weapons then?

Does it not seem odd that Israel would release 1000 convicts for one other convict? It doesnt make sense. They're always preaching about how devastating the Palestinians are to the security of Israel, yet they release 1000 people who are almost guaranteed to continue to fight them?

It doesnt make sense. Unless they've realized that they need some more Palestinians to fight, to justify the money and weapons they get from the US.

reply to post by bluemirage5


First, many elite soliders from the IDF submitted a formal complaint

Active duty and reserve soldiers from elite counter-terrorism units who risked their lives during previous missions to capture terrorists submitted a petition to the Netanyahu government protesting the wholesale release of terrorists in exchange for the release of kidnapped Gilad Shalit after six years in Hamas captivity.

The organizers write, "We, soldiers past and present, vehemently oppose return of terrorists to their homes, which undermines years of work and raises the overall risk of soldiers being killed in the line of duty,

"We are very hurt by the cabinet's attitude on this matter, and the next time we soldiers are asked to stop terrorists again we will have to think twice about whether it is worth risking our lives to capture killers who will only be released again We the undersigned demand that the State of Israel not release murderers we will only have to risk our lives yet again to capture later in our service,

"We note, that according to the sequence of the deal to release Gilad Shalit, which was revealed today, 450 murderers with blood on their hands will be released, in addition to 550 other prisoners, for the release of one kidnapped soldier."

Underscoring the soldiers sentiments is the promise of more kidnappings by Hamas, the inclusion of terrorists who have killed Israeli soldiers in the deal, and warnings from Israeli security officials who say the deal will likely invite more terror.

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Strategic affairs Moshe Yaalon predicted the Shalit deal will result in "tens if not hundreds" of Israeli deaths.

Link

Can you blame their logic? They risk their lives - each a potential Gilad Shalit, for nothing?! To have their hard-work and effort thrown away??

their right minds should allow a POW to rot in captivity.

Im not saying Gilad Shalit shouldnt have been brought back, but that doesnt mean you have to settle to this sort of deal! It makes NO STRATEGIC SENSE! Infact, it is thoroughly stupid and reckless. Stamp it "moral" if you like, but this will solve nothing. If anything, it gives Hamas justification to continue kidnapping Israeli citizens to free palestinian "freedom fighters". This being the singular reason for not negotiating with terrorists. Not only does Israel negotitate with terrorists, but they allow themselves to get exorbitantly taken advantage of.

I was listening to Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum discuss the Gilad Shalit deal. He thought it was nice that he was coming home, but for the price paid, and the potential danger accrued, it was not worth it. He compared it to a similar scenario that occurred in the 12th century when a German Prince kidnapped a renown Rabbi. The prince said if the Jewish community could pay a certain sum - an egregiously high price that would have impoverished the whole community - he would free the Rabbi. When the Rabbi discovered the price, He told the community leaders not to pay it. He would prefer to suffer and endure the pain of torture and captivity then to have seen the Jewish community pay such a hefty price for his freedom. But his main point, which is recorded to this day was this: if you do it once, it will set a precedent. They will do it again and again. He died a few years later in a dungeon.

Hundreds of of Israelis died at the hands, or at the planning, of 450 murderers being freed. What about their victims? What about their Justice? Why do you ignore what happened to them, in favor of rescuing one kidnapped soldier? That isnt moral and im a little amazed you think it is.

Sacrificing one of your own through fear of the unknown is immoral

I have no idea what you mean by this. Whats the "unknown" youre speaking of?

No one can predict what any one of those Palestinian terrorists/prisoners will do tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but one thing

I really thought you were more sagacious than this bluemirage. No one can predict? Are you serious? In all likelyhood, they will go back to being "politically active" - champions of a "free palestine" - to get rid of the 600,000 settlers, as per Islams practical methods, by "any means necessary" - which means the same type of things they were doing before they were put in prison.

65% of convicted criminals upon being released return to their criminal activities. How much moreso does this apply in a politically contentious environment like Israel/westbank/Gaza? You have got to be a total moron to think "its a reasonable risk". Its not a reasonable risk. It is on the contrary quite predictable.

reply to post by FlySolo

And I was correct. You only disagree with this because you would never consider the potential of positive influence it may create

Wow, what DERANGED thinking.

While you see me to be ignoring the "potential positivity", i look straight faced at the nature of the deal, the pieces involved and the party being negotiated with.

I dont like talking Israel/Palestine with ignoramuses. And you my friend, are quite ignorant. When Israel left Gaza - Gush Katif, what happened? Stressing over a potential positive is a pipe dream. The more likely scenario - given the many past Israeli concessions that have backfired (beign ignorant, im sure this 'fact' doesnt bother you) is to see more terrorist attacks or kidnappings.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Drezden

 

Yes, I mentioned that earlier.

Here's more......

As some of the Palestinian terrorist/prisoners were handed over to Fatah in the West Bank.....guess where their first stop was? Yasser Arafat's grave!

Gilad's first stop was right in to the arms of his father!

What does this tell you?

It tells you that Gilad was allowed to go home whereas many of the Palestinains weren't.

Originally posted by Drezden
Did anyone else notice how all the freed Palestinian prisoners looked fat and well-feed.. while Gilad Shalit was very thin, malnourished, and pale from lack of exposure to the sun?

It confirms that there are food shortages in Gaza due to the Israeli blockade.

reply to post by FlySolo

It's almost scary because now I know with you, a good deed would not go unpunished.

Ya,.....because refusing to negotiate with terrorists as a matter of principle and intelligence means i dont reward good deedds. What an IDIOTIC statement!

You know whats cruel? Whats more cruel....? Letting Gilad Shalit to suffer in captivity or freeing 450 murderers, who in turn have the potential - having done it before and being motivated by circumstances that STILL EXIST today, who in turn could kill many more people.

The latter is more cruel. The only reason why some people fail to see it is because of a lack of foresight and cognitive reasoning abilities. Because the former in imminent, and current, you ignore or mitigate the future occurence of deaths that could occur.

Additionally, what about the people these terrorist murderers killed? Becuase they are no longer alive they no longer deserve justice? Frankly, murderers are beyond being a bargaining chip. They have blood to pay for and Israel has made a complete mockery of justice - and its especally ironic because Judaism, of all religions, stresses the importance of exacting justice from those who brazenly break universal moral laws.

reply to post by Expat888


You've NEVER been to Gaza and while I'm at it Hamas came right out afew hours ago and boasted there is no economic problem in Gaza. That.....some of us already knew.

My guess is you have NEVER seen the aftershock of a suicide bomber's handy work whether that be of a Palestinian, Iraqi, or Pakistani !

Perhaps when the Palestinians stop their blood thirsty terror, the IDF will stop targeting them! Ever thought of that?

reply to post by torsion


Show me a starving Gazan or any Arab and I'll show you faries really do exist!

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by FlySolo

 

And I was correct. You only disagree with this because you would never consider the potential of positive influence it may create

Wow, what DERANGED thinking.

Deranged thinking is relative. Resorting to calling my positive outlook deranged makes me think likewise of you. Fine.

While you see me to be ignoring the "potential positivity", i look straight faced at the nature of the deal, the pieces involved and the party being negotiated with.

Instead if griping about it, why don't you offer a solution? You can't look forward into the future and determine the result. Period. If you can, then do something about it.

I dont like talking Israel/Palestine with ignoramuses. And you my friend, are quite ignorant.

Then why respond? Does it fuel your animosity?

When Israel left Gaza - , what happened? Stressing over a potential positive is a pipe dream. The more likely scenario - given the many past Israeli concessions that have backfired (beign ignorant, im sure this 'fact' doesnt bother you) is to see more terrorist attacks or kidnappings.

Thanks for the history lesson. You seem content to have history repeat itself for another 2000 years. I am not, and frankly, I'm sick of it. And to suggest kidnappings and terrorism won't bother me goes to show how myopic you really are. Just because you have a radical ideology, well, speak for yourself...

ETA: Holding a grudge allows someone to live rent-free in your head

reply to post by FlySolo

Thanks for the history lesson. You seem content to have history repeat itself for another 2000 years. I am not, and frankly, I'm sick of it. And to suggest kidnappings and terrorism won't bother me goes to show how myopic you really are. Just because you have a radical ideology, well, speak for yourself...

Me..radical?

Whats radical is you thinking Israel should negotiate with people - Hamas - who time and again have made Israel pay for the concessions they have made to them. I mentioned Gush Katif because Israels concession was repaid with rocket attacks at Ashdod, Askhelon and other southern towns. Shouldnt this precedent be enough proof that negotiating with Hamas ALWAYS backfires? Should i mention other precedents?

THATS whats radical. Whats insane - and even Einstein defined insanity as such - is to commit the same act again and again and expect a difference result.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by torsion

 

Show me a starving Gazan or any Arab and I'll show you faries really do exist!

Food shortages don't necessarily lead to starvation. Malnutrition is more likely.

Despite the blockade by Israeli military the Palestinians shared there limited food with Gilad who, ironically, is a member of the same military that brought about the lack of food.