Why don't the conspiracy theorists have their OWN investigation?

Yawn.....

Notice all the resident "debunkers" all claim to be an engineers, architect, and mostly pilots.

Well I am a crash investigator like my father before me. The crater in Shanksville was not caused by a Boeing 757.

Funny tho.... You mention the REAL evidence of the Israeli spies, Mock hijacking exercises on 911 that confused Norad and Faa, Prior knowledge. Exercises and FEMA ready on Sept 10th for terror 'exercise' and the debunkers ignore and find a thread about holograms and sing " Silly toofers".

Originally posted by Joey Canoli
Are you saying that doing an energy calc using ke, etc is invalid?

One problem with using KE is that you need velocity.

On page 2 under "Another Perspective: Initial Vertical Velocity" they explain that a velocity needed to collapse the first floor can be achieved from a free fall of 3.69 m (which they then explain is over one story but is clearly beyond the range of possibilities).

Now how can the top 15 floors achieve the velocity to collapse the first floor beneath them when that velocity can only be achieved after 3.69 m which is beyond one story?

And then state that it is a possibility?

Originally posted by hooper
Configurations? If you were an engineer you would have automatically refered to them as the framing plans.

I didn't want to confuse the uneducated.

Look at the loading calculations done by the designers, it stipulates, in pounds per square foot, the amounts per floor.

You do know that load calculations incorporate a factor of safety correct? Thus not giving us an exact figure. What's wrong with giving us the structural steel schedule?

Really? You mean the core column framing? Look again and tell me exactly what you need to know and most importantly - why?

Please point out where they go into the core beam and column framing in detail. Especially the beam configuration.

Hmmm, you mean you have absolutely no clue about any of the elements in the building?????

Do you know all of them?

reply to post by Shadow Herder

Well I am a crash investigator like my father before me. The crater in Shanksville was not caused by a Boeing 757.

But were you there? Without being at the crash site all you have is speculation.

But feel free to call for a news conference and prove your case.

That's all any of you truthers have to do is call for a news conference. Proove your point and then call to reopen the investigation.

But none of you ever will.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
reply to post by pshea38

 

Nice injection of 911 disinformation. Those little video you posted are usually spread by debunkers claiming it came from truthers.

Im on Randi too.... I dont like 'toofers'...

Whatever shadowherder. You have obviously been herded into the 9/11 shadows!
I couldn't care less for your two-bit labels, nor for what you like and don't like.
9/11 was a Demonstrable Holywood-style Hoax. Full Stop.

Here we go. The classic truther vs truther debating nonsensical theories tactic. This is so 2004.

Say hi to Nico and Phil for me.

Originally posted by Nutter

My mistake in saying they didn't take the third law in to account.

Mistake?

And yet again, this reminds me of that guy Griff. he would make ludircrous statements like you did and then come back to admit he was wrong.

Of course, the rational realize that every time that you "make a mistake" like this, it just undercuts your credibility, since you're trying to use an appeal to authority from your supposed engineer's status.

It's amateurish. Get real.

Originally posted by Nutter

One problem with using KE is that you need velocity.

This is an admission that using the ke approach is valid.

Thank you.

On page 2 under "Another Perspective: Initial Vertical Velocity" they explain that a velocity needed to collapse the first floor can be achieved from a free fall of 3.69 m (which they then explain is over one story but is clearly beyond the range of possibilities).

1-G. Szuladzinski says that. Not Bazant.

2- Bazant gives about a dozen reasons why his energy absorption calcs are wrong

3- do you agree that Bazant is correct in his criticism?

Now how can the top 15 floors achieve the velocity to collapse the first floor beneath them when that velocity can only be achieved after 3.69 m which is beyond one story?

And then state that it is a possibility?

So you're puzzled, huh?

Quit the trolling, dude.

Notice all the resident "debunkers" all claim to be an engineers, architect, and mostly pilots.

If they are the professionals they claim to be, these geniuses obviously can't hold a job since they have nothing better to do with their valuable time than park themselves on some "DAMN FOOL CONSPIRACY SITE" and ridicule any and all discussion about an event which occurred over ten years ago.

Tell me something, in all honesty, why don't you truthers stop chanting "we need more investigations" like it was a religious mantra and hold your own investigation?

A valid investigation without physical evidence, classified information or access to the most important players? Your question pretty much sums up why you believe the Official FairyTale.

Originally posted by earth2mayavision
Actually, there has been an official hearing of evidence in Toronto, Canada,

Who declared that it was a "official hearing"?

Was it official because boxboy Gage was there?

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I'll even go one more to yours, Dave, Why don't the conspiracy theorists take their case to court and have the perpetrators in govornment tried.


I've said it before. For the last 10 years, the truth movement has been going on about false flags and evil govornment conspirators, and how the evidence is so solid and overwhelming that only an idiot would continue to believe the OS. How "thousands" of experts disagree with the OS, and can prove conclusively evidence for a conspiracy.

So I say to you, truthers, put your money where your mouth is, and bring all this "overwhelming" evidence to court, or lobby your evidence in Washington directly to the top. It's been done before. Hell, UFO investigators have done it, through court cases to get classified UFO related documents released via the FOIA. And UFOs are still a heavily debated subject. Yet the serious UFO investigation groups have actually been proactive in demanding answers or trying to force the govornment to stop BSing.

So if groups looking for evidence of little green men can do it, with very limited resources and budgets, why can't the truth movement do the same? I haven't seen truthers do anything productive or useful. 10 years on, the extent of truther "activism" involves posting dodgy you tube links as "evidence", or standing around ground zero shouting like a bunch of idiots, insulting the families of victims and waving their stupid signs, shouting their fool heads off with their holy mantra: "9/11 was an inside job". They claim they want to "wake the sheeple".

Stop wasting your time, and everyone elses. The "sheeple" will continue to see you as unemployed virgins living in your mother's basement, if all you can do is rant on message boards and hand out flyers. If you want the "sheeple" to believe in your conspiracy theories, do something useful. The Truth Movement claims to be full of experts and rock hard evidence. So bring it to court. With all the money made from sales of T-Shirts and other Truth movement kitsch, as well as DVDs, you should have more than enough money to raise to hire a crack team of lawyers to help your experts such as Gage and Jones get their awesome proof to court. What's this money being used for, other than to bail out truthers who get arrested for acting like assholes?

In otherwords, put up or shut up, please.

Originally posted by ProphetOfZeal
Yawn.

Sorry, GoodOlshill. But the fire fighters, pilots, architects, scientists, engineers and victims families for 9/11 truth who call for a new UNBIASED, LEGIT investigation are far from "conspiracy theorists", yet you continue to use this term, (which has been conditioned upon the people by the mainstream media to mock people who question 9/11 or want a new investigation) and other terms and tactics to demonize and mock truth seekers who want justice. You know what, I can't believe people actually entertain your garbage and star you, flag you, etc. Truly pathetic.

This site is very popular. So I am 100% certain there are paid shills here, as part of the gov op to sway people's opinion on popular forums, youtube, etc.

This forum is as compromised as the 9/11 commission and NIST investigation. Why do you guys entertain this guys threads?

I concur. I originally tried to debate with him on some supisions I raised on a couple of threads I created and it was a fair few posts before I read his signature and connected this with his significantly one-sided view.

I've publically stated his beliefs and willingness to shout down anyone who is deemed as a non-believer of his truths as religionistic and have since declined to engage him further, as he actually gave me a head ache.

I've got my suspicions and potential theories and a number of unanswered questions, specifically surrounding WTC7, however I wouldn't call these suspicions beliefs at all. Yet I've been lambasted, ridiculed and mocked for airing these in this public forum.

By comparison, it's taken over 20 years and nearly 200,000 petition signatures to instigate an new debate in parlement and the release of all related information into the Hillsborough Disaster.

For those that are un-aware - en.wikipedia.org...

By this rationale, we need roughly 2,000 petition signatures per individual death that occured.

So that's about 6,000,000 petition signatures and another 10 years to wait.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Because there's not yet enough support for the cause and it's social suicide for many. It's such a hot button issue, truthers have to wait until some of the resistance to the truth movement dies down and more people join the movement. So right now truthers are in a power gathering stage where the presentation of the information is being hammered out to get to be more formal. I suspect the reason it takes so long is that people/sheeple find it nearly impossible that there could be masters of puppets holding strings.

You should be proud that there are plenty like us who are careful cynics and who question what we see. We are the people who fight for what's right even if it means going against the grain. So right now I'd say most non-truthers are the grain and they are the grain because that's what's easy to do. It's not easy to sit and argue with what looks to some to be obvious evidence showing innocence. You should watch 12 Angry Men with Peter Fonda.

Those that question should be praised and uplifted for their spirit, which is an echo of the spirit it took the Colonies to stick it to the man back in the 1760's and on. Remember that it is easy to pull someone down and it's a constant struggle to rise up.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

With no power to call witnesses and no access to much of the information and evidence..??

Yeah sure Dave..All the people have asked for is a fair and unbiased investigation of an event that killed thousands of innocent Americans..

But instead they spend more on investigating Clinton's sex life in the office.

Funny I thought there was all different races killed by this! not just Americans, do they really need to call witnesses NO! what they need to do is prove that it couldn't happen the way it did!

Lets see one truther WILLING to work out an actual impact load for the mass falling on the floor immediately below the impact point, to make it simple even use one floorslab of 700 tons lets see a truther calculation of the impact load from that?

I have not seen one YET, I wonder why!

Originally posted by wmd_2008


Lets see one truther WILLING to work out an actual impact load for the mass falling on the floor immediately below the impact point, to make it simple even use one floorslab of 700 tons lets see a truther calculation of the impact load from that?

I have not seen one YET, I wonder why!

Let's fill in all the blank for them so they don't have to guess at the variables, They just have to give us the total for force (F)

F=ma

Mass (M) = 700 tons

Initial Speed (v0) = 8 meters per second

Final Speed (v1) = 0 meters per second

Time (t) = .1 second

(If you prefer using distance rather than time):

Distance (d) = 1 meter


Don't forget to add in the force of potential energy pushing up:-)

reply to post by waypastvne


So, you guys aren't proponents of the "how could they rig 110-story buildings without beeing seen" crowd?

I guess not if you believe that fire failing one story can cause global collapse of the towers.

So, the next time I see the logical fallacy of "how could they rig 110 storys whithout being seen" I will direct them to this thread where the debunkers themselves have proven without a shadow of a doubt that only one story need be compromised.

Thanks guys. (Joey...et al)

reply to post by Nutter


If it was planes and fire that brought down the towers in that way then logically planes plus fire plus any amount of explosives would also do the same, so as little as one 1kg could have been smuggled in but never let logic get in the way of a good story - 20 stories completely destroying 90 stories (and themselves) - yeah right, inside job every day of the week. People argue about the small points, but is the OS true, sadly its not, not by a million miles.

reply to post by Nutter


The problem with your fallacy accusation is of course that truthers themselves claim that the buildings were loaded with explosives on every floor, not the "debunkers". So there isn't really a fallacy. A problem that arises when someone claims just one floor was rigged with explosives is how the exact impact floor could be predicted.

But besides that, as soon as truthers acknowledge that only one floor requires to fail for a full collapse, the whole theory that explosives were required falls in the water. The theory relies on the idea that the building could not collapse without them. Without that idea, there is not much reason left to still support that theory.

When you claim that the collapse could only initiate with explosives, and that fires and impact damage was not enough, I can point you to a physical scale model of the 96th floor of the WTC tower which confirmed that collapse would initiate.