The most vulnerable suffer when fluoride is taken from water

Originally posted by e11888
reply to post by cosmicexplorer

 

"I have your letter of September 29 asking for further documentation regarding a statement made in my book, "The Truth about Water Fluoridation", to the effect that the idea of water fluoridation was brought to England from Russia by the Russian Communist Kreminoff. In the 1930's Hitler and the German Nazis envisioned a world to be dominated and controlled by a Nazi philosophy of pan-Germanism. The German chemists worked out a very ingenious and far-reaching plan of mass-control which was submitted to and adopted by the German General Staff. This plan was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water supplies. By this method they could control the population in whole areas, reduce population by water medication that would produce sterility in women, and so on. In this scheme of mass-control, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place.

"Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. [A convenient and cost-effective light lobotomy? --- Ott].

"The real reason behind water fluoridation is not to benefit children's teeth. If this were the real reason there are many ways in which it could be done that are much easier, cheaper, and far more effective. The real purpose behind water fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination and control and loss of liberty."

www.greaterthings.com...

Ya I saw that...im trying to find actual case law....Ive came across a few statements from the 40s commenting on russia and germany

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by cosmicexplorer

 

I can't find any case law on that fluoride has made people docile.....if anyone finds something please post it.

Found a thread here at ATS about it, not done looking through it but it's a start:

ATS thread

ya...looking for case law...im trying to find out why more people haven't sued over the docile issue...the poison issue seems like there are alot of cases to different degrees...some over multiple elements including fluoride and some with just fluoride..some win some lose etc...

if there is enough case law on it...i think you could put some people in very difficult situations.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech



Look man your preaching to the choir. I may not think its as deadly as they hype it up to be but I don't drink the crap or want it in the water. Not much else you can convince me of.

You may say that we wear tin foil hats, but we think you have had too much flouride.

It's been proven dangerous and toxic.

You know they used it in the nazi death camps to make the prisoners docile? I'll bet they were even defending fluoride in the end.

Ok my final take on it after some looking around is this.....

It is poisonous with large amounts... like lets say if it were mismanaged at a water plant.
There is some benefits of it..but we are probably at the point of overkill.
I think at this point our state governments would be too afraid to full blown reverse the issue out of fear of lawsuits.
I think the initial introduction of fluoride was for a health benefit.
I dont think there is any link as of yet that it makes you docile.

In conclusion...we need more research on it on a large scale...for the docile part. Im still not buying into that one yet..and still no case law i can find on law suits of fluoride causing people to be docile... ill do some searching again later.

Thanks to those who debated with me...this is why I come here...and even if we have a difference of opinion we are here for the same reasons and can't progress unless we have this debate.

How exactly is fluoride making people "stupid"? Can we see some proof? What do you mean by stupid?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by KILL_DOGG

 

Brave person

Flouride is safe of course. I think most of the stuff we see is from people suffering from various levels of paranoid delusions.

Really?! Have you actually researched this topic you so want to do a thread on? If you had read ANYTHING about this you would certainly know sodium flouride, the chemical that is added to our water, is a toxic, neuro numbing substance that is harmful to our bodies and a pacification tool first started by the Nazis to control their populace.

Ridiculous, disparaging posts like yours are steeped in ignorance and waste our time. Go to an MSM site and spew your blather to your fellow sheeple.

We need iodine. We even iodize salt. Don't take that away from us too you paranoid people. Children will go blind if you do.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


The fluoride used in tap water is primarily an industrial waste-product collected from the pollution scrubbers of fertilizer plant smoke stacks. Countries across Europe refuse to add this chemical to their water supplies there government officals claim it's dangerous and toxic. It also causes dental fluorosis, a condition that prevents your tooth enamal from forming it hurts and my teeth break all the time form it. Flouride is also shown to lower the I.Q and retard brain develpment in young children.
Flouride commonly causes hyperthyroidism, 40% of the worlds cases are in the US..why? Fluoride
When you consume flouride it combines with metals that are normally passed throught the body harmlessly, For instance alluminum+flouride=brain lessions and kidney damage.
i can keep telling you why its dangerous but I'm sure you get the picture.

Originally posted by KILL_DOGG


I've never been clear on what the big hubbub is about fluoride in the water. We've had it there for decades and life expectancy and tooth retention has steadily increased. However you've got this faction of people, most of whom still live in their mom's basement wearing tin foil hats, want everyone to think the government is poisoning us. All I can do is stare at the screen and shake my head in bewilderment.

vitals.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

MSNBC sez fluoride is okay! Yay! Tank you MSM! You never lie!

Do some actually research into the subject before bad mouthing people who don't want fluoride in their water & maybe you'll understand why they don't want it. In fact, a recent study was done by the National Academy of Science & they discoverd a rise in dental fluorosis in children, that's one reason why the amount is being lowered. Anyone can read an article, post it, & give their short opinion along with insults. This thread gets a

www.cdc.gov...

On January 7, 2011 the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced new recommendations pertaining to the amount of fluoride currently being used to treat drinking water in nearly two thirds of this country’s water supply. The new recommendations are a remarkable turnabout for Federal Officials following recommendations made by the National Academy of Science (NAS) after their review of the quality of our drinking water. The NAS reports concerns regarding an overexposure of fluoride because of its presence not just in drinking water, but in toothpaste, mouthwash and regular fluoride treatments many American children receive by their dentist. Too much fluoride causes white spotting on the teeth and currently one third of all US children display signs of over exposure to fluoride. This over exposure is known as fluorosis and can lead to more significant health problems. Studies have associated fluorosis with tooth decay, lower IQ, thyroid disorders, and bone damage.

Statements from European Health, Water, & Environment Authorities on Water Fluoridation

Germany:

"Generally, in Germany fluoridation of drinking water is forbidden. The relevant German law allows exceptions to the fluoridation ban on application. The argumentation of the Federal Ministry of Health against a general permission of fluoridation of drinking water is the problematic nature of compuls[ory] medication." (Gerda Hankel-Khan, Embassy of Federal Republic of Germany, September 16, 1999). www.fluoridealert.org...

France: "Fluoride chemicals are not included in the list [of 'chemicals for drinking water treatment']. This is due to ethical as well as medical considerations." (Louis Sanchez, Directeur de la Protection de l'Environment, August 25, 2000). www.fluoridealert.org...

Luxembourg: "Fluoride has never been added to the public water supplies in Luxembourg. In our views, the drinking water isn't the suitable way for medicinal treatment and that people needing an addition of fluoride can decide by their own to use the most appropriate way, like the intake of fluoride tablets, to cover their [daily] needs." (Jean-Marie RIES, Head, Water Department, Administration De L'Environment, May 3, 2000). www.fluoridealert.org/luxembourg.jpeg

Belgium: "This water treatment has never been of use in Belgium and will never be (we hope so) into the future. The main reason for that is the fundamental position of the drinking water sector that it is not its task to deliver medicinal treatment to people. This is the sole responsibility of health services." (Chr. Legros, Directeur, Belgaqua, Brussels, Belgium, February 28, 2000). www.fluoridation.com/c-belgium.htm

www.fluoridealert.org...

That's pretty decent site that explains fluoride's danger(apologies if someone already posted that). I don't know about anyone else, but I'd prefer my water WITHOUT neurotoxins, TYVM

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


on the tube it said not for ingestion, yet its in the water?need we say more?even the ones you defend are saying the oposite you claim.WOW! enjoy it,personal experience of what that vid says,my wife insist in brushing after every cigarrette in spite of me telling her, she has to go to the dentist often and the brownish stain seems to come back very quick and persist.so to me its not just a video telling me so.oh by the way,did they say it afects the nerve system?hm! probly thats why my wife has als?
believe in the goverment that wants to depopulate and you will be fine.

imo flouride in our drinking water is wrong on many levels

the first being the govt cant balance a checkbook and has no bussiness trying there hand at preventive dentistry in short its not there job and they are not dentists.

second what % of our water is injested vs flushed etc? as we probably consume less than 2 % of our water, so we pump unkown large amounts of a toxic chemical into the oceans/our enviroment. incredibly ineficient way and stupid system considering some drink more soda than water.

because clean drinking water is a need and people have the right to not be guinea pigs for a mass dental experiment which has not been proven safe, and even if it were, it wasnt the whole time they put in our water.(criminal offence to tamper with clean drinking water)

because i remember when all artificialy sweetened products came with a warning label that said DOES cause cancer in labortory rats at a time when cigs said MAY cause cancer in humans. so 4 out of 5 dentists recomend i chew a gum that does cause cancer in lab rats in ordrerr to prevent cavities brilliant!

to all those that say we know its safe or who show look a dentist says its ok. that is not correct yes its been in some of our water for decades and yes dentists are teeth experts but wether its safe to consume unknown amounts of a chemical for decades is not a question to be answered by a dentist.

and lastly if you want to help all the underprivlaged children then why dont you pay(personaly) for their trips to a dentist and stop wasting our tax dollars. what if irreputable proof comes that floride in the water causes stomach cancer and all the people who get sick sue and win large settlements(our taxes) ??

since when did the govt care so much about anyone much less poor kids much less poor kids dental hygene??? alarm bells should be going off the govt fights to defend poor kids??? lmao at the surealness of that argument i must be really old and have seen the govt lie too much.

Originally posted by KILL_DOGG

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by KILL_DOGG

 

You say this:

I've never been clear on what the big hubbub is about fluoride in the water

..... then provide a link to MSNBC.......LLLMMMMAAAAAOOOO!!!

That just about says it all.....

That just about says nothing at all. SMH

Offtopic a bit but what is SMH? I have wondered for a long time... Sign My Head is about all I can come up with

reply to post by KILL_DOGG

This is very interesting, your saying that there is nothing wrong with fluoride in drinking water. You need to do a little homework before taking that leap. And it is as simple as googling the Material Safety Data Sheet on Fluoride.

www.sciencelab.com...

And here is some very interesting info from Wikipedia.
en.wikipedia.org...

msds.orica.com...

www.orica-chloralkali.com...

There is always a rabbit hole to dive into here, and it's amazing what you can find if you look in all the right places.

Originally posted by Vandettas
How exactly is fluoride making people "stupid"? Can we see some proof? What do you mean by stupid?

It is a neurotoxin. Meaning it affects the nervous system. Damaging the nervous system can adversely affect the mind and functions of the brain. It is more toxic than Lead, as in, it is more hazardous to a human's health than something we have banned the use of in paints and fuels. Leaded fuels or paint were never meant to be digested, yet lead was considered dangerous enough, that it had to be removed from these items (and more) after an outcry.

Lead is rated a "2" by NFPA standard. Sodium Fluoride is rated a 3. Also known as the "fire diamond". You see it on chemical containers. There are 5 levels:

0 - Poses no health hazard, no precautions necessary (e.g., water)
1 - Exposure would cause irritation with only minor residual injury (e.g., acetone)
2 - Intense continued but not chronic exposure could cause temporary incapacitation or possible residual injury
3 - Short exposure could cause serious temporary or moderate residual injury (e.g., chlorine gas)
4 - Very short exposure could cause death or major residual injury (e.g., hydrogen cyanide, carbon monoxide)

Yet, sodium fluoride, rated as a higher health-risk than lead, is willingly added to drinking water?

Proponents of fluoridation will tell you that sodium-fluoride in drinking water doesn't have high enough concentration to adversely affect a person's health or mind. Yet, what they don't tell you, is that because fluoride is in all tap water in the United States, that virtually 99.5% of anything you consume, be it food or beverages or medicine, it will contain fluoride. On top of that, fluoridated toothpaste. They study the risks of directly consuming tap water only. Take from that what you will.

Believe me, the average American far exceeds the safe-consumptions levels of sodium fluoride. In my opinion, there is no such thing as "safe levels" when it comes to toxins. I believe this term should apply to toxins found naturally, and thus unavoidable to some extent. Fluoride is unnaturally added to water supplies, thus it does not occur naturally, and is not meant to be viewed as safe to any extent. Only the insane, stupid, or criminal-minded among us would agree to this.

Any lawyer defending this should be disbarred, any academic praising it should be fired. It is disingenuous, offensive and criminal.

Don't know what else to tell you. Drink up.

Originally posted by KILL_DOGG


I've never been clear on what the big hubbub is about fluoride in the water. We've had it there for decades and life expectancy and tooth retention has steadily increased. However you've got this faction of people, most of whom still live in their mom's basement wearing tin foil hats, want everyone to think the government is poisoning us. All I can do is stare at the screen and shake my head in bewilderment.

vitals.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Nobody's saying it kills you.. it makes you docile and lethargic. Answer me this... if applying it to your teeth is good for dental health.. then why do we swallow it? When was the last time you swished or gargled tap water? And since when does the government even care about our teeth enough to push this issue so hard for so long? Really? The same government who told us it was okay to breath in lower Manhattan after the destruction of WTC? The same government who told us it was okay to eat seafood during the oil spill? They care about our teeth soooo much that they'll put fluoride in our water?? Why not just advise us to do regular fluoride applications like flossing? We have to swallow it EVERY time we drink our own water? Come on now..

fluride in drinking water is just a way to get rid of it so it doesn't have to disposed of as a hazardous waste product .

I almost forgot about a recent thread here on ATS. The source is Natural News, which I can be very sensational, but what news sources isn't? Anyway, it talks about Dentists from all over the world speaking out against fluoride in the water. The article also brings up a documentary about fluoride in water supplies, made in Australia.



Here's the thread, www.abovetopsecret.com...

Btw, that MSNBC article the OP posted is the most pro-fluoride article I've ever read. Scientific stupidity? Moral blindness? Oh really? From EU nations...www.fluoridealert.org...

France:
"Fluoride chemicals are not included in the list [of 'chemicals for drinking water treatment']. This is due to ethical as well as medical considerations."

Germany: "Generally, in Germany fluoridation of drinking water is forbidden. The relevant German law allows exceptions to the fluoridation ban on application. The argumentation of the Federal Ministry of Health against a general permission of fluoridation of drinking water is the problematic nature of compuls[ory] medication." (Gerda Hankel-Khan, Embassy of Federal Republic of Germany, September 16, 1999). www.fluoridealert.org/Germany.jpeg

Belgium: "This water treatment has never been of use in Belgium and will never be (we hope so) into the future. The main reason for that is the fundamental position of the drinking water sector that it is not its task to deliver medicinal treatment to people. This is the sole responsibility of health services." (Chr. Legros, Directeur, Belgaqua, Brussels, Belgium, February 28, 2000). www.fluoridation.com/c-belgium.htm

Luxembourg: "Fluoride has never been added to the public water supplies in Luxembourg. In our views, the drinking water isn't the suitable way for medicinal treatment and that people needing an addition of fluoride can decide by their own to use the most appropriate way, like the intake of fluoride tablets, to cover their [daily] needs." (Jean-Marie RIES, Head, Water Department, Administration De L'Environment, May 3, 2000). www.fluoridealert.org/luxembourg.jpeg

Sweden: "Drinking water fluoridation is not allowed in Sweden...New scientific documentation or changes in dental health situation that could alter the conclusions of the Commission have not been shown." (Gunnar Guzikowski, Chief Government Inspector, Livsmedels Verket -- National Food Administration Drinking Water Division, Sweden, February 28, 2000). www.fluoridation.com/c-sweden.htm

Denmark: "We are pleased to inform you that according to the Danish Ministry of Environment and Energy, toxic fluorides have never been added to the public water supplies. Consequently, no Danish city has ever been fluoridated." (Klaus Werner, Royal Danish Embassy, Washington DC, December 22, 1999). www.fluoridation.com/c-denmark.htm

Finland: "We do not favor or recommend fluoridation of drinking water. There are better ways of providing the fluoride our teeth need." (Paavo Poteri, Acting Managing Director, Helsinki Water, Finland, February 7, 2000). www.fluoridation.com/c-finland.htm. Finland also says there was no harmful effects found when they ended the treatment in 1990 (1970-1990).

"Artificial fluoridation of drinking water supplies has been practiced in Finland only in one town, Kuopio, situated in eastern Finland and with a population of about 80,000 people (1.6% of the Finnish population). Fluoridation started in 1959 and finished in 1992 as a result of the resistance of local population. The most usual grounds for the resistance presented in this context were an individual's right to drinking water without additional chemicals used for the medication of limited population groups. A concept of "force-feeding" was also mentioned.

Drinking water fluoridation is not prohibited in Finland but no municipalities have turned out to be willing to practice it. Water suppliers, naturally, have always been against dosing of fluoride chemicals into water." (Leena Hiisvirta, M.Sc., Chief Engineer, Ministry of Social Affairs and Health, Finland, January 12, 1996.) www.fluoridealert.org/finland.jpeg

Austria: "Toxic fluorides have never been added to the public water supplies in Austria." (M. Eisenhut, Head of Water Department, Osterreichische Yereinigung fur das Gas-und Wasserfach Schubertring 14, A-1015 Wien, Austria, February 17, 2000). www.fluoridation.com/c-austria.htm

Czech Republic: "Since 1993, drinking water has not been treated with fluoride in public water supplies throughout the Czech Republic. Although fluoridation of drinking water has not actually been proscribed it is not under consideration because this form of supplementation is considered: * uneconomical (only 0.54% of water suitable for drinking is used as such; the remainder is employed for hygiene etc. Furthermore, an increasing amount of consumers (particularly children) are using bottled water for drinking (underground water usually with fluor) * unecological (environmental load by a foreign substance) * unethical ("forced medication") * toxicologically and phyiologically debateable (fluoridation represents an untargeted form of supplementation which disregards actual individual intake and requirements and may lead to excessive health-threatening intake in certain population groups; [and] complexation of fluor in water into non biological active forms of fluor." (Dr. B. Havlik, Ministerstvo Zdravotnictvi Ceske Republiky, October 14, 1999). www.fluoridealert.org/czech.jpeg

I wonder what MSNBC would say to about these statements from European Health, Water, & Environment Authorities on water fluoridation.

May 2007: A new study of European public opinion on water fluoridation, published in the journal Community Dentistry & Oral Epidemiology, reports that the "vast majority of people opposed water fluoridation." According to the study, Europeans opposed fluoridation for the following reasons: "Many felt dental health was an issue to be dealt with at the level of the individual, rather than a solution to be imposed en masse. While people accepted that some children were not encouraged to brush their teeth, they proposed other solutions to addressing these needs rather than having a solution of unproved safety imposed on them by public health authorities whom they did not fully trust. They did not see why they should accept potential side effects in order that a minority may benefit. In particular, water was something that should be kept as pure as possible, even though it was recognized that it already contains many additives." (See study summary)

From MSNBC,

It was only a matter of time. The Tea Party has risen up in Pinellas County, Fla., and ensured that kids who live there will face a lifetime of dental problems, risky oral infections and big hits to their wallets, all done in the name of moral blindness and scientific stupidity. They have gotten the county commissioners to agree to take fluoride out of the water supply.

I read about actual increased tooth decay due to dental fluorosis. What are the actual statistics of the population who brushed regularly all those decades ago? How many dental products were available to them during that time? And, of course, dental practices have improved and so did their treatments. When was floss invented? Brushing your teeth is second nature to just about all of us. We brush our teeth at least 1 time a day so I would agree that there was a fall of tooth decay but I wouldn't ever solely give all the credit to fluoridated water, if any at all.

Pinellas County — basically Tampa-St. Petersburg— provides water to about 700,000 people. Like most Americans, those people, particularly children, have benefited from the addition of fluoride to the water supply. The rate of tooth decay in the U.S., Europe and many other nations has fallen dramatically, between 18 to 40 percent, since the pre-fluoride days of many decades ago. Dentists and scientists know why — fluoridation.

Europe huh? Well there are how many EU countries? Well there's 12 right there that openly reject fluoridating their water while only 4 fluoridate, UK, France, Spain, & Ireland who presently still apply the treatment to their water supplies.

And MSNBC does a good job of creating fear with this beauty,

Cavities are not just a minor nuisance. They lead to the loss of teeth, chewing problems, dangerous infections that can kill, and ultimately to a lousy quality of life as you get older and cannot eat. Since access to dental care in America is crummy, this is a huge problem.

Dental care in this country is crummy? Really MSNBC? Just gonna generalize and sensationalize to say going to any American dentist you better expect a crummy job? I hear people complain about medical practitioners (doctors, nurses, etc), private practices, and hospitals but I rarely hear about someone's crummy dental work. It happens but that's life. You know, MSNBC is trying too hard

Too many kids don’t learn to practice good oral hygiene, a whole bunch eat too much sugary food and way too many live in families that cannot afford to see a dentist at all. For them, fluoridation is far and away their best hope.

Sounds like too many parents let their kids get away with eating sugary foods and not brushing their teeth. Call it lazy parenting for a county known to be couch potaoes Bottom line, we don't need any Gov't to take care of our teeth via a ingesting fluoride.

I enjoyed this line,

Aside from some tooth discoloration, which may be able to be fixed by lowering the amount of fluoride used, there is no health risk.

Are they talking about dental fluorsis? It's a litte more than just teeth discoloration, but they are right, the amount has been too much for too long and needs to be lowered but eventually ceased. Lowering the amount won't fix anything but only help to prevent future "discoloring"

en.wikipedia.org...

Dental fluorosis is a health condition caused by a person receiving too much fluoride during tooth development. The critical period of exposure is between 1 and 4 years old; although fluorosis can affect people of any age despite claims that it only affects children.[1][2] In its mild form, which is the most common, fluorosis appears as tiny white streaks or specks that are often unnoticeable.The spots and stains left by fluorosis are permanent. They may darken over time. In its most severe form, which is also called mottling of dental enamel, it is characterized by black and brown stains, as well as cracking and pitting of the teeth.[3] The severity of dental fluorosis depends on the amount of fluoride exposure, the age of the child, individual response, as well as other factors including nutrition.[1] Although water fluoridation can cause fluorosis, most of this is mild and not usually of aesthetic concern.[4] Severe cases can be caused by exposure to water that is naturally fluoridated to levels well above the recommended levels, or by exposure to other fluoride sources such as brick tea or pollution from high fluoride coal.[5]

Where's the middle finger emote? I wanna give it to MSNBC! The disinformation in that one article alone is pretty incredible! Definitely one for the archive for future LOL's

i worked at a dental office that had 8 doctors. they had us all sign a yearly petition thing to get it removed from the water supply.

it never succeeded that i know of.