Why is everyone afraid of a place called HELL?

reply to post by Glockroshin

The seal of God is what you believe in and follow aka your fruits/actions...

Glad you were not going where I was afraid you might have been.
This is your exposition of the verse, which is you taking it and expanding the meaning of it according to your personal interpretation. I don't see any of those theological considerations being brought into what was going on which was described as a sealing. You can imagine it as a logical explanation for how it happens, in order to rationalize it. Sometimes the Bible describes what amounts to a lottery.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Lonewolf, what happens to the bodies of the ones who are rescued during the Great Tribulation? Do they get new bodies as well and we all live together here on earth during the Millennium? I guess I'm still trying to understand the reason for the Millennium. If everyone who's going to be saved is already saved, why have it? Will those out of the Great Tribulation have their mortal bodies to multiply? What are your thoughts? I know nothing is written in the Bible to give us the exact answer, but I really want to know what you think.

Those believers who get saved during the Great Tribulation will be raptured up to the Lord before armageddon begins, the dead rising first and then the living. They do not get new bodies until Judgement Day because they failed to accept the Lord before the first rapture. You see there are not just one rapture, there are two rapture events. Those who esacped the Great Tribulation in the first rapture are the ones who get the new bodies and get to experience New Jerusalem on earth. The experience of New Jerusalem (Jesus' millenial reign on earth) is the reward for those who heard the Lord's call before the tribulation, so in a sense it is a kind of punishment for those who failed the first test. They will not get to experience New Jerusalem, they must wait in heaven until the Lord returns to heaven. Now after the destruction of the old earth and old heaven, they will get to participate in the new earth and new heaven.

Lonewolf, what about the verse below?

Revelation 20:4

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

What that statement "many are called, but few are chosen" means is that Christ will call many souls to him, they will hear his call and obey (accept him as savior), the few that are chosen are those he calls to do his work, like preachers and evangelicals. The "chosen" will be the leaders of Christ's followers, the shepherds to lead the Lord's flock until his return. There will always be more sheep than shepherds. It doesn't mean that only a handful are going to actually be saved. Everyone who calls on the Lord shall be saved (meaning ask forgiveness and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior).
Romans 10:13 "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

No, that is in Mathew 22

“But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless. “Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

When Paul was talking about "all", he was saying that as being contrasted with the OT verse where it seemed to mean only the Jews. Paul is saying the Greeks could be saved too. So you are taking it out of context and making it say something different.

reply to post by Deetermined


Sorry to butt in here, but what I got out of that is God delegated other "beings" to judge us besides himself??
I was under the impression that only he could judge our fate.
No so sure I like the idea of these "other" judges.
But it does make me think that there are levels to the governing body of God's kingdom.
The creator knows what is in our heart, how would these so called judges know??
or is that St. Peter at the gate??

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Glockroshin

 

The seal of God is what you believe in and follow aka your fruits/actions...

Indeed it is. The seal of God is in your forhead (where your heart is) and in your right hand (which you work from, or your actions, the "work" you do).
Yes you have the correct meaning for this statement.

No, your heart is in your heart, not your head.
You are just making that up.
Revelation says, this many, from these tribes. Then there is the multitude, also. They are not the same. You are misapplying what is being said, into something completely different.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Glockroshin

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Glockroshin
Why does the Bible say that when you die,you sleep,they come to mourn your grave and you know nothing?

Because your body is dead and your spirit is not there anymore. When you die your spirit goes to heaven to wait until the resurrection day.

Then your spirit is shot back into your grave so you can come out of the ground to meet Jesus in the sky?

No your spirit does not go back into your old body, you get a new body. Your old body returns to the dust and on the resurrection day your spirit goes with the Lord to rescue the last of his children that converted during the great tribulation whereupon you get your new body for Jesus 1000 year reign on earth.

Lonewolf, what happens to the bodies of the ones who are rescued during the Great Tribulation? Do they get new bodies as well and we all live together here on earth during the Millennium? I guess I'm still trying to understand the reason for the Millennium. If everyone who's going to be saved is already saved, why have it? Will those out of the Great Tribulation have their mortal bodies to multiply? What are your thoughts? I know nothing is written in the Bible to give us the exact answer, but I really want to know what you think.

Based on your explanation to Glock, do you not believe in a rapture?

edit on 8-10-2011 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

Look up rapture and Darby on wiki...He started that theory...There will be no rapture...Sorry....Two in the field and one left is only half the story...Keep reading,it says that the ones that are left are food for the fouls of the air=dead.

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Sorry to butt in here, but what I got out of that is God delegated other "beings" to judge us besides himself??
I was under the impression that only he could judge our fate.
No so sure I like the idea of these "other" judges.
But it does make me think that there are levels to the governing body of God's kingdom.
The creator knows what is in our heart, how would these so called judges know??
or is that St. Peter at the gate??

I didn't catch that. Was there a particular verse you read? I know that Revelation talks about the 24 elders that sit on each side of the Throne. Which verse are you referring to?

reply to post by Deetermined

Glock may be referring to the 144,000 Jews who are "sealed" and protected from the Great Tribulation and from Hell. He may need to elaborate more on this one too. Glock, it would help if you actually posted the verses you were referring to.

No.
It does not say that.
After they are all in Heaven and are praising God, one of the elders says to John that God will now protect them by bringing them in, under his tent. This is after they have washed their robes in blood (presumably by going through the tribulation).

Originally posted by Glockroshin

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Glockroshin

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Glockroshin
Why does the Bible say that when you die,you sleep,they come to mourn your grave and you know nothing?

Because your body is dead and your spirit is not there anymore. When you die your spirit goes to heaven to wait until the resurrection day.

Then your spirit is shot back into your grave so you can come out of the ground to meet Jesus in the sky?

No your spirit does not go back into your old body, you get a new body. Your old body returns to the dust and on the resurrection day your spirit goes with the Lord to rescue the last of his children that converted during the great tribulation whereupon you get your new body for Jesus 1000 year reign on earth.

Lonewolf, what happens to the bodies of the ones who are rescued during the Great Tribulation? Do they get new bodies as well and we all live together here on earth during the Millennium? I guess I'm still trying to understand the reason for the Millennium. If everyone who's going to be saved is already saved, why have it? Will those out of the Great Tribulation have their mortal bodies to multiply? What are your thoughts? I know nothing is written in the Bible to give us the exact answer, but I really want to know what you think.

Based on your explanation to Glock, do you not believe in a rapture?

edit on 8-10-2011 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

Look up rapture and Darby on wiki...He started that theory...There will be no rapture...Sorry....Two in the field and one left is only half the story...Keep reading,it says that the ones that are left are food for the fouls of the air=dead.

This is a subject that not even Christians can agree on, so be prepared for possible long debate! Just know that no one knows for sure! LOL!

Here's an explanation/theory that I received from someone recently for thought:

There will definitely be a pre-tribulation Rapture. The Lord will call Christians home before the Tribulation begins. Here are some verses that would be good for you to look up: I Thessalonians 4:16,17, I Corinthians 15:51,52 and Revelation 3:10. The book of Revelation was written chronologically. Revelation 1:19 says: “Write the things which thou hast seen, the things which are and the things which shall be hereafter” (past, present and future). Chapter 1 speaks of the past and chapters 2 and 3 speak of the present. Time wise, we are approximately at Revelation 3:15,16 and 17—the cold, lukewarm, lackadaisical Laodicean church. The future is shown in chapters 4-22.

The next event is Revelation 4:1 where John says: “After this I looked, and behold the door was open and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither…” This is the Rapture. Some people think this passage is speaking only to John but if you read ahead you will see that verses 10 and 11 talk about the 24 elders casting their crowns before the throne. This scene must take place after the Judgment Seat of Christ in order for the 24 elders to have crowns to cast at Jesus feet. The Judgment Seat of Christ cannot take place unless all Christians are present. This would mean that the Rapture has taken place.
The next event in Revelation, after the Rapture, is chapter 6, which is the Tribulation. Since chapter 4 comes before chapter 6 (the Tribulation) then we must conclude that the Rapture does take place before the Tribulation.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Glock may be referring to the 144,000 Jews who are "sealed" and protected from the Great Tribulation and from Hell. He may need to elaborate more on this one too. Glock, it would help if you actually posted the verses you were referring to.

No.
It does not say that.
After they are all in Heaven and are praising God, one of the elders says to John that God will now protect them by bringing them in, under his tent. This is after they have washed their robes in blood (presumably by going through the tribulation).

edit on 8-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Maybe I misunderstood what "sealed" Glock was referring to. I was particularly referring to:

Revelation 7:1-8

1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

No where within the Bible does it speak of a secret rapture...But it does say that Jesus will come as a thief in the night,a secret.We only have one chance,not two.

reply to post by jmdewey60

When Paul was talking about "all", he was saying that as being contrasted with the OT verse where it seemed to mean only the Jews. Paul is saying the Greeks could be saved too. So you are taking it out of context and making it say something different.

All means all, not just the jews or greeks but any who calls on the name of the Lord. I'm not taking anything out of context. Jesus came to save all of mankind not just 2 particular people. Paul was appointed to minister to the gentiles. Gentiles are anyone who are not Israelite, be they greek, egyptian, ethiopian or native american. You are not letting the Holy Spirit guide you.

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Sorry to butt in here, but what I got out of that is God delegated other "beings" to judge us besides himself??
I was under the impression that only he could judge our fate.
No so sure I like the idea of these "other" judges.
But it does make me think that there are levels to the governing body of God's kingdom.
The creator knows what is in our heart, how would these so called judges know??
or is that St. Peter at the gate??

Jesus is the judge of mankind. We become the judges of angels when we fulfill our role as his bride.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Glockroshin

 

The seal of God is what you believe in and follow aka your fruits/actions...

Indeed it is. The seal of God is in your forhead (where your heart is) and in your right hand (which you work from, or your actions, the "work" you do).
Yes you have the correct meaning for this statement.

No, your heart is in your heart, not your head.
You are just making that up.
Revelation says, this many, from these tribes. Then there is the multitude, also. They are not the same. You are misapplying what is being said, into something completely different.

Um, your heart is in your head, because without your brain you don't feel anything. If you were totally braindead you would have no "heart" heart is emotion, the core of what makes you, you. Without your head there can be no love.

I mean this with kindness,but I refuse to battle verses of the Bible....We ALL can quote what we want from it...But judgment day/or the end,will put everyone within their place....We will ALL be judged according to "the light" of truth that we have been shown.I wish that all of you make it.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Glockroshin

 

The seal of God is what you believe in and follow aka your fruits/actions...

Indeed it is. The seal of God is in your forhead (where your heart is) and in your right hand (which you work from, or your actions, the "work" you do).
Yes you have the correct meaning for this statement.

No, your heart is in your heart, not your head.
You are just making that up.
Revelation says, this many, from these tribes. Then there is the multitude, also. They are not the same. You are misapplying what is being said, into something completely different.

Um, your heart is in your head, because without your brain you don't feel anything. If you were totally braindead you would have no "heart" heart is emotion, the core of what makes you, you. Without your head there can be no love.

SPOT ON!

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Um, your heart is in your head, because without your brain you don't feel anything. If you were totally braindead you would have no "heart" heart is emotion, the core of what makes you, you. Without your head there can be no love.

Whatever book of philosophy you are reading to get such ideas, I suggest you toss it and try to actually read the Bible without all that because it is just garbage.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Um, your heart is in your head, because without your brain you don't feel anything. If you were totally braindead you would have no "heart" heart is emotion, the core of what makes you, you. Without your head there can be no love.

Whatever book of philosophy you are reading to get such ideas, I suggest you toss it and try to actually read the Bible without all that because it is just garbage.

The seat of your mind is your(heart) your identity,what you believe in...etc.Does your heart love your lover or does your mind?

Originally posted by Glockroshin

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Um, your heart is in your head, because without your brain you don't feel anything. If you were totally braindead you would have no "heart" heart is emotion, the core of what makes you, you. Without your head there can be no love.

Whatever book of philosophy you are reading to get such ideas, I suggest you toss it and try to actually read the Bible without all that because it is just garbage.

The seat of your mind is your(heart) your identity,what you believe in...etc.Does your heart love your lover or does your mind?

Have you ever had a"broken heart"?Has your "heart" ever hurt for someone?

Have you ever said"I love you with all my heart"? If you did,you know that you meant your mind/soul....Our heart is the engine that our mind pilots...our soul is a part of the seed of truth that is within our DNA....It's called free will to choose right from wrong without the Bible or any teaching.