99%? Who wants to be a part of the 100%?

reply to post by Cinaed


Yes I have. It's all part of the show.

Keeps the people thinking they are going to get change.

reply to post by daskakik


No one claims it is perfect, I would ask you though to show me any form of government that is both fair and protective of the people allowing a free society as well and staying out of their business and protecting personal liberty???

The Constitution lays he ground work to do this....but WE the people have to do the work...we have to make sure they dont mess up and when they do we need to correct it. The older generations did not remain diligent but the beauty of the problem is it can be fixed.

However if none of the OWS are interested in uniting the people and making change for the good of all.....they want the demands on their list....

America is done

It is sounding to me like that's what you all want

reply to post by daskakik

If he was a communist as well as the first republican president and a federalist then all labels are just that.

B I N G O we have a winner !!!!
i gave you links, i cannot make you read them but you might want to start somewhere.

yes, he and the Republicans are / were / and will be again / communists when necessary ... you must understand that both parties have been infiltrated since before FDR (Franklin Roosevelt) ... the socialist / communist specific parties have come, gone and then woven their way into the existing 2 party platform (it's really the only way to win) ... kudos for realizing it even if it hasn't sunk in yet

want to be sure? check these ...
Ayers - Democrat / socialist / 1960-70s
Red Republican / socialist / lincoln's day

It had a relatively open editorial policy, publishing the thoughts of revolutionaries such as Kossuth from Hungary, Mazzini from Italy, and Louis Blanc from France. It also carried the first England language edition of Karl Marx and Frederick Engels' Communist Manifesto, translated by Helen Macfarlane (see right).

The Red Republican carried on after November 1850, but with a new title – The Friend of the People

sound familiar ????
need more ?? just ask

reply to post by daskakik


exactly!

that's why the whole name calling and left right party crap needs to stop...

I am going to stand on the Constitution and do my best, I am going to defend and support it with my dying breath. If a time should come a movement arises I can believe in I will get behind it. I still like what the Tea Party stands for but I also agree the Tea Party groups are mostly co-opted already.

My family has invested in this country and this document since it's creation. Through the generations my family has always been on the side of Personal Liberty regardless of political interests. Pretty every generation since my first ancestor on this soil has served the country militarily....

It's a very sad thing for me to see so many youth, our future not care about either personal liberty or the constitution because if the list of demands is OWS idea of personal liberty....we are just so screwed

reply to post by daskakik

I know you said you were not being facetious but if you don't know who the people are then who's rights is the document protecting? Sorry to say it but the people are the majority. That is how it was put in place.

please clarify the bold above ... which people and how would i know what about them?
i'm not understanding your question.

the document is designed to protect unalienable rights of all citizens of the USA ... what am i missing here?
the people have always been the majority ... i must be missing something.
what do you mean by "That is how it was put in place."

and yes, i've heard it ... heck, i've used it but truth be told, it is your decision to stay so either be 100% or be gone ... fair-weather friends are just that and certainly less than dependable.

reply to post by Cinaed


I agree. I'm not really them so what they want is not really what I want. I can however understand why they want what they ask for.

Personally I don't think America is done for. I mean it hasn't been what it started out as for a long time and has been able to remain at the top for all that time. The communist experiment failed and free capitalism didn't fare too well either but all the constitutional republics that have been established based on the US form of government are a testament to the viability of the system.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Honor93

 

So the amendment that permits the Federal Reserve un unlimited charter has been repealed?

Your wrong the document is manipulated and whatever tweaks that have been made are mearly cosmetic.

you'll have to provide links for this information because i don't follow your "amendment" statement.
the Federal Reserve Act was not a Constitutional amendment and i'm not sure which one you think grants perpetuity to the enigma.
please clarify.

sure it's been legally manipulated but that doesn't render it useless.
don't know what you mean by cosmetic ... many of us find the "tweaks" rather drastic and unnecessary but i'm really beginning to think there exists no common ground between those who value the Constitution and those who do not. please tell me i'm wrong.

reply to post by Honor93


You answered it yourself all citizens. The majority in the sense that if a small group come together to oppress the rest then the constitution should keep them from doing so.

It was put in place by a vote. While the representatives may have all voted yea I'm sure there were some citizens which may not have been in agreement but majority rules.

But even if you leave but remain a citizen you still have to pay taxes and that other law which is the federal government controlling you even if you are in another country. You can become a citizen of another country but that takes time so in the meantime your still under US rule. So while you may have said it and meant it the other person doesn't shake the US government off that easy.

reply to post by daskakik

I understand their anger and frustration too, but I think due to being half a fricking century old....I have a different perspective of how they could best fix it, and I am down right ashamed of my generation for letting it get THIS bad. And I admit I am guilty...I didn't give a rip about politics until about 3 days into Bush's second term.....I rarely voted.

That has changed

What they need to decide is do they have an interest in making it a national movement...or not....

Believe me I don't what the future they are about to get for them either...I also don't want to see them bring the country down to its knees...fighting the wrong monkey and having a little socialist fit...hate to say it but that WILL piss me off

I have grand kids now and I want to become a REALLY little old lady watching them strive for the American Dream too! Wrinkles and all

Originally posted by daskakik
I'm quoting Thomas Jefferson on his idea that the constitution should be revised every 19 years. Nothing more nothing less.

no, you're not. you excised his commentary about pondering / considering the possibility that limited (generation specific) laws could be a benefit to the society as a whole, then applied it to the Constitution which had already been in effect for nearly 2/3 a generation. (his reflection upon the past decade is what you perceive as his intent ... therein lies your mistake)
[in his day, 20 was an OLD age and 40 seldom seen]

Opinions are the product of beliefs. If he didn't believe that to be the best way to do things he would not have expressed that opinion.

wrong again. opinions are the product of thought, nothing else on an instinctive level. (beliefs are) Valued opinions are usually the product of experience rather thought or basic knowledge. Hence, we have science.
opinions are a dime a dozen, frequently change and often discarded as fluff.
I don't believe any of Jefferson's published writings qualify as "fluff", do you?

you simplify far too much ... look deeeeeeper and you'll begin to understand.

reply to post by daskakik


Depending on the country it can vary from very easy to extremely difficult..Lots of countries have an age limit on how old you can be to file for citizenship and many countries are MUCH pickier than we are

Well so it begins for these protestors. OWS is the headline story on Fox this morning....it aint pretty. Maybe they will begin to understand how possibly the stuff they believed about the Tea Party....maybe just cuz they heard it a lot didn't make it true

Painting them pretty bad...drug addicts, ppl with warrants hiding out in the crowd, just there to party....

They also mention the free food and how many peeps that is attracting. Smoked salmon and bagels??? really??

reply to post by Honor93

No matter how unconstituional you think something is if the people don't get it changed then what was the point of having the constitution in the first place.

I read Jeffersons letter and he says "Every constitution, then, every law naturally expires at the end of nineteen years." Taking it in with the rest of the letter it means one thing to me and it seems to mean something else to you. I can tell you to analyze it better and you can throw the sentiment right back. Not going to get us anywhere.

The 14th was used to give corporations personhood. If I am not mistaken the Fed is a corporation which would not have been possible without it. You seem to have other reasons to say it is unconstitutional but still there it stands reenforcing my belief that the piece of paper isn't going to get out there and fight the peoples fight. After all it is just a piece of paper.

reply to post by daskakik


Of course not, when things get out of sync it is the DUTY of The People to fix it... We have failed in our duty, but we can change that.

The hard party as I see it is to find something that unites the people so well the movement cant be hijacked....

That is why something that matters to most needs to be found for every interest group to focus on together

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Honor93

 

No matter how unconstituional you think something is if the people don't get it changed then what was the point of having the constitution in the first place.

I read Jeffersons letter and he says "Every constitution, then, every law naturally expires at the end of nineteen years." Taking it in with the rest of the letter it means one thing to me and it seems to mean something else to you. I can tell you to analyze it better and you can throw the sentiment right back. Not going to get us anywhere.

The 14th was used to give corporations personhood. If I am not mistaken the Fed is a corporation which would not have been possible without it. You seem to have other reasons to say it is unconstitutional but still there it stands reenforcing my belief that the piece of paper isn't going to get out there and fight the peoples fight. After all it is just a piece of paper.

first, do you understand that the word constitution (especially lower case) does NOT refer to the CoUSoA ?
it was common and proper language, then. it more than likely refers to an established law or custom (then) and immediately refers such 2 words later ... it is proper English, that's all.
But, it still holds true as a concept regarding the CoUSoA, for this is how it was written and established ... practiced, well -- kinda over the years but then the lawyers got involved and all of a sudden the general public was deemed to stupid to figure it out for themselves.

the tangled web grew, the public apathy grew with it and here we are today, entrenched in a web of our own creation (or lack thereof, as i see it)
see, my guilt or apology is delivered from the other side of the fence.
i did take a stand, more than once ... however, the right issue doesn't always produce the right legislation ... as i discovered just how the machine manipulates, i too grew VERY apathetic and stood on the sidelines for many a year as i was simply dumb-founded that this agenda was actually proceeding in what seemed to be unabated ... it literally made me physically ill.

once upon a time, i was a registered Republican, but Reagan cured me of that.
once upon a time, i refused to vote (actually believing it wouldn't make a diff anyway)
but ya know what?? i was wrong and i admit that, so let us share our mistakes in the hopes you make better decisions along the way. in the end, we are all traveling on the same path ... the one that leads to freedom.

for the record, the Federal Reserve is not a govt entity, nor is it a corporation.
if you are not going to invest the time or effort to learn, why bother us with such nonsense?

Using an amendment to justify a bad decision (FR) does not make the bad decision an amendment.
who teaches you these things?

it has a Board of Governors not a Board of Directors ... it may have unjustly obtained corp status but that doesn't make it a corporation either. if i wear dreads, does that make me Rastafarian?

That "piece of paper" is what enables us to rise up and change that which we believe necessary.
so the previous generations didn't, so what? ... did it ever occur to you they were busy? WWII, Korea, VietNam and numerous other skirmishes throughout the world. (never said it was right or wrong just kept'em busy)

look, i realize even challenging the FR is a death wish ... see Kennedy for reference.
he tried, he even signed an EO # 11110 which should have ended the FR but instead, 3 wks later, he was dead.
these are not schoolboys with a bad attitude. it will not be easy.
but, a few thousand loudmouths isn't gonna get squat accomplished (self included)
and, they have much bigger toys that they are just itching to play with ... you really wanna open that can of worms??

Right on. The psychopaths deserve the money. They had no qualms about child labor and destroying the natural resources of the countries they outsourced to. It's like Dr. Suess's Lorax story. (or "The Corporation")

Originally posted by Honor93
That "piece of paper" is what enables us to rise up and change that which we believe necessary.
so the previous generations didn't, so what?

If arguing symantics and grammar is your thing go right ahead but excuse me if I don't follow.

Second the Fed is labeled a system but since:

Corporation Means: A legal entity that is separate and distinct from its owners. Corporations enjoy most of the rights and responsibilities that an individual possesses; that is, a corporation has the right to enter into contracts, loan and borrow money, sue and be sued, hire employees, own assets and pay taxes.

Then I think that is exactly what it is.

The "piece of paper" is not what enables us to rise up and change that which we believe necessary. The term you are looking for is courage. Did the founding fathers have the Constitution when they sent the King of England the Declaration of Independance and fought for their independance?

a few thousand loudmouths isn't gonna get squat accomplished (self included)

Is that self yourself because I have already said I'm not one of them?
Now they may not accomplish squat but who am I or anyone else to say they don't have the right to voice their opinion?

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by SeleneLux
reply to post by projectvxn

 

Look at your signature man, its all about death and killing. Then you spout off about sin earlier?

My signature is firstly, not the topic. And secondly, I am not the guy you wanna get into an religious argument over whether defense of oneself or defense of ones nation is or is not permissible under Christian doctrine.

I wouldn't worry about them too much...I believe they MAY need to recheck the teachings of Christ again..probably starting in Romans 1. But lets not get religious shall we..

Here is another interesting point of observation to me..... I often say history repeats itself, and one of the reason is people are creatures of habit.... You have a civil war and the central gov overrules and subdues the body of state gov's..... You have labor issues and Union riots happen and Unions gain power, so people believe Union=good even though NOW in lots of locals and trades Union = corrupt thuggery

You hear proverbs and cliche's in all our culture over such matters ie "The South is gonna rise again" Now to me that phrase has nothing to do with racism or slavery or any such common assumption. To me the phrase is like a reminder......each time a clash between powers comes to a head, people tend to harp of the last solution employed ....like the civil war. At that time the central gov needed to win, it was the only way to right some wrongs and save the nation really. That does not mean the next time federal rights versus states come to a head, the remedy should be the same.

Part of the reason the federal government is now so big and corrupt....grabbing powers never intended for it, maybe this time the answer is not the same as in the 1800's....Maybe the south does need to rise again about the state's right issue...and maybe...just maybe the best way to correct some of the injustice is for the other side to prevail this time!

When it comes to Unions, well yes....there was a day when Unions were needed to correct some injustices...now, they have far exceeded this purpose and are weilding political power (whether all the dues paying members agree or condone such power or backing) Perhaps the correct remedy now is to rein in the Unions and make them get fricking REAL with people instead of pressuring the employers into a situation of making promises they can't keep, especially when Union Labor is in many trades very lazy, playing and milking the system to get more for doing less. Lots of union members will hate me for that but my Dad was a Union guy...I know all the inside jokes! Don't work a sweat! This is a Union Job boys!!! If you are sweating you are working too damn hard! What? You want me to do WHAT??? Screw you that's the electricians job! That last one got popular with my dad's union when workers were instructed to move needed materials up quite a few floors....via the stairs as the elevators weren't operational yet.... I mean REALLY they had a fit cuz they were told to use the stairs!!! And that was in the 70's, some of the BS now is over the top!! What the heck is with TENURE??? What do you mean....I mean REALLY ??????????? So put in a couple yrs....get tenure and the pfftt screw em all for the rest of eternity? In my world anyone not willing or capable of doing the job right is a flaw in the system....they need replaced... What's the mystery about this???

If I am not doing my job well or correctly, I should get a few warnings to correct my errors but if I do not....I get fired, and rightly so! I fail to see why a TEACHER should have some bulletproof protection against being accountable for the job they are doing...or NOT doing!!!!!

Another thing I have really been thinking about lately too is The Homestead Act!!! It would have to be tweeked to apply to our modern times FOR SURE...but think about this....if the Federal Gov is grabbing power AND LAND in an out of control manner....how better to take back some of that power, than to take back some of the LAND! In past times being a LAND OWNER made ALL the difference. The RIGHT to own personal property was a BIG DEAL to the founders!

The Homestead act could do this, the tracts would need to be smaller but who REALLY needs 160 acres? And the requirements would have to be updated and feasibly accomplished by the AVERAGE citizen willing to put out some effort and EARN the land!

Most probably don't know some of the particulars on this act:

en.wikipedia.org...

Now think about that for a moment........................ This would really put the current generation on the spot in a good way...here would be a chance for them to actively improve their lives AND take back some power....not to mention millions and millions of acres of land a people could live on and improve. People have to work together in such settings...Homesteaders NEED their neighbors. Pioneering IS the American Way!

What if you could get say 5-10 acres of land to build a home on and develop as you like....the cost to the individual is the surveying, the time and money invested to meet REASONABLE requirements, once requirements are met within a time frame the federal government signs over the SAME Federal Patent as the Homestead act of old!

Now there would be some REAL Power to The People!

reply to post by Honor93

i just want to understand why you are willing to cooperate with the industry that is destroying everything America is.

This line seems pretty accusatory..

I don't know man. You seem to think that despite my stance on constraining banks and abolishing the Fed that I somehow stand with them. It's getting annoying.