One Question

Originally posted by CaDreamer
atheists often know more about the bible than most Christians...not much difference

Actually, there is. Those atheists tend to be ex-Christians, and have been there and done that. Non-Masons, on the other hand, have mostly never even set foot in a Masonic Lodge.

reply to post by GringoViejo


You'll find a lot of people who know more than some freemasons themselves among the rosicrucian crowd. And I'm not talking about the cheap paper monographs you get in the mail kind either.

"Matthew 13:11"

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

Women have an order all their own, called the Order of the Eastern Star.

And the Skull and Bones is in no way affiliated with Freemasonry.

It is impossible to argue with Anti Masons, because their logic is circular.

'There is a conspiracy among the higher level Masons' is very easily proven wrong, as all Masons are equal.

But upon refutation, its always the same response 'You aren't high enough in the organization to know the truth.'

Ugh.

To answer your question, anyone can become a victim to their own self aggrandizement, and ego.

You can't fill a cup that is already full...

It's interesting that women are allowed in, but they can't join the men in the Smoking Room.

Not all Masons are equal or levels would not exist.

There are no true conspiracies within the Masons but conspiracies don't exist anywhere. If something is to be, how can it be considered a conspiracy? But if there were a true conspiracy, it would be Ignorance of the Truth.

You can't fill a cup that is already full, if it's a Closed Container and a Closed Mind thinks it's full.

Ribbit

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad
Not all Masons are equal or levels would not exist.

Why do you say that?

All Masons are equal in the fraternity. While some Masons are more knowledgable than others, and some Masons possess more degrees than others, it all boils down to that fact that all Masons have a voice in the fraternity's proceedings, and all Masons have one vote. That's what is meant by all Masons being equal.

Originally posted by Solomonopoly
reply to post by GringoViejo

 

You'll find a lot of people who know more than some freemasons themselves among the rosicrucian crowd. And I'm not talking about the cheap paper monographs you get in the mail kind either.

"Matthew 13:11"

Thanks, I'll brush up on that.

Originally posted by fah0436
Has to do with compartmentalization of information and more importantly need-to-know.

Need-to-know means ONLY those individuals DIRECTLY involved in an operations are given information - and even then, ONLY the information needed to carry out THEIR part of the operation. Higher ups generally give direction, but rarely know the details at the individual level.

Practiced religiously (lol - bad connotation) by the military and related intelligence organizations.

Even MORE so by secret societies.

Only real way secrets get out is by insiders breaking their oath and revealing what they know - usually by word of mouth, in articles and books; sometimes documents (but REALLY secret stuff is RARELY written down).

I worked for a well known intelligence agency for over 20 years, and was never told about the real secret stuff that was going on. Found out most of my information by reading books and articles written by insiders.

edit on 10/5/2011 by fah0436 because: Added need-to-know details

Okay, that's a theory.

But let me ask you this: Person A is a Mason, (one of the evil ones) and person B is a Mason (regular, acceptable type) and person C is in no way affiliated with masonry (may own headgear made of some type of foil). Person B never finds out the dealings of person A, because as you say, everything is "need to know." How is it possible then, for person C to ever find out about it if person B has never found out? Is person C need to know as well?

Better yet, how do You know? Hmmm? Are you an evil, shystie, "upper level" Mason?

Originally posted by GringoViejo

Better yet, how do You know?

Because he read about it on the Internet!

reply to post by GringoViejo


There's not much to know.

Masonry is an experience. Read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave." You cannot learn experiences from books, it is impossible and nobody would believe you anyway.

Masonry isn't something to be learned, we don't have any profound secrets, we just have life lessons. It is a wonderful institution, but some people get similar experience from a Chess Club, or an Internet Forum, or a close-knit family structure. Masonry is a collection of life lessons and morals handed down from one group of morally successful men to a new group of the same, generation by generation.

All the so-called "secrets" are out there in Duncan's Rituals, but there is only one way to gain an experience. You have to go do it yourself.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad
Not all Masons are equal or levels would not exist.

Why do you say that?

All Masons are equal in the fraternity. While some Masons are more knowledgable than others, and some Masons possess more degrees than others, it all boils down to that fact that all Masons have a voice in the fraternity's proceedings, and all Masons have one vote. That's what is meant by all Masons being equal.

I think where we are clashing is the word "equal". Equal is not the same as Equals.

Are all Masons Equals? Yes!

Are all Masons Equal? No!

I hope that explains my earlier statement.

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


I disagree.

Please name some way that Masons are not equal in the fraternity of Masonry? I am only a 3rd Degree Mason, and I am a Past Master, I have set in every chair, played every part in degree work. I have sat next to Grand Masters and ate Chitlins. I have very close friends that are 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons, and I am very good friends with the Grand Commander of the York Rite.

Please cite some example of something a 3rd Degree Mason cannot do, or some way that a 3rd Degree Mason would be frowned upon or considered in a lesser manner.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by GringoViejo

 

There's not much to know.

Masonry is an experience. Read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave." You cannot learn experiences from books, it is impossible and nobody would believe you anyway.

Masonry isn't something to be learned, we don't have any profound secrets, we just have life lessons. It is a wonderful institution, but some people get similar experience from a Chess Club, or an Internet Forum, or a close-knit family structure. Masonry is a collection of life lessons and morals handed down from one group of morally successful men to a new group of the same, generation by generation.

All the so-called "secrets" are out there in Duncan's Rituals, but there is only one way to gain an experience. You have to go do it yourself.

I'll look into it, I've had a renewed interest in the philosophers lately anyways.

But your response is pretty much what I've been trying to illustrate in this thread. I'm not a Mason, but I know enough to know that what I know isn't all that much at all, and even if I did know some insider... something or other, that I wouldn't have a base of knowledge that's appropriate to deduce the meaning of what I learned.

At least that's what I think.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

I disagree.

Please name some way that Masons are not equal in the fraternity of Masonry? I am only a 3rd Degree Mason, and I am a Past Master, I have set in every chair, played every part in degree work. I have sat next to Grand Masters and ate Chitlins. I have very close friends that are 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons, and I am very good friends with the Grand Commander of the York Rite.

Please cite some example of something a 3rd Degree Mason cannot do, or some way that a 3rd Degree Mason would be frowned upon or considered in a lesser manner.

Your use of the word EQUAL is misplaced!

Equal does not equal Equals!

I've already shown that but if you do not understand the difference, it's a waste of time to argue any further.

"Not even God can win the fight against stupidity, when Stupid is judging the contest." - Old Toad Proverb

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


Maybe I am being stupid, can you provide an example?

In the eyes of the fraternity, all the members are both Equal and Equals except for those in elected positions, but those positions are rotated yearly and democratically.

Is one member more of a Mason than another? Is one member better at being a Mason than another? Is one member more skilled at Masonry in some way?

Sure, some put in a lot more time and effort than others, but it doesn't win them in special favor, just the gratitude of their brethren, but nothing unequal in value to anyone else.

Please explain if possible.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Please explain if possible.

Dude!

Don't be stupid! Just take his word for it!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

Maybe I am being stupid, can you provide an example?

In the eyes of the fraternity, all the members are both Equal and Equals except for those in elected positions, but those positions are rotated yearly and democratically.

Is one member more of a Mason than another? Is one member better at being a Mason than another? Is one member more skilled at Masonry in some way?

Sure, some put in a lot more time and effort than others, but it doesn't win them in special favor, just the gratitude of their brethren, but nothing unequal in value to anyone else.

Please explain if possible.

Is one member more of a Mason than another? No! They are EQUALS but that does not make them EQUAL!

equal
Adjective: Being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value.

equals
3rd person singular present
Noun: A person or thing considered to be the same as another in status or quality.

So if you use it as an adjective, the meaning is different but to say two are equals, is the noun version:

Two = Noun
are = verb
equals = noun

Is one member better at being a Mason than another? The odds dictate the answer to that one is YES! That's like asking is one christian better at being a christian than another. The answer there is also YES!

Is one member more skilled at Masonry in some way? Masonry isn't about skills, it's about philosophy, mindset, so that question is flawed, thus, there is no correct answer.

Ribbit

From what I understand Masonry is a club with rituals. From what I hear, anybody can learn anything and everything about the rituals. However, you have to be a member of the club (or very closely affiliated with it) to know anything about the club.

Those who claim to know everything about Masonry may be able to spout of trivia about handshakes, passwords, and rituals, but they probably have no clue about the people in the club. They cannot name people who are members of the local lodge. They do not know these individual's families. They may have spent any time with them.

If you join Masonry or any other club, for better or worse you will get to know people. You will never know by using google that the president of your local masonry lodge has a great sense of humor or is an obnoxious drunk. You will never know that the members of your lodge make great drinking buddies or are a bunch of morons.

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


In that case, either your humor was misunderstood, or what is the purpose of pointing out we all look different and have different heights and weights etc.? And even then, that doesn't mean we are unequal, nobody ever claimed we were identical.

I think you are just playing games with semantics, and perhaps it was meant as a joke and I missed it? *shrugs*

Pointless debate anyway.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

In that case, either your humor was misunderstood, or what is the purpose of pointing out we all look different and have different heights and weights etc.? And even then, that doesn't mean we are unequal, nobody ever claimed we were identical.

I think you are just playing games with semantics, and perhaps it was meant as a joke and I missed it? *shrugs*

Pointless debate anyway.

It wasn't a joke. What you missed is I was just trying to point out the difference between the two words, because if you use a word incorrectly, you confuddle the masses and they are confuddled enough as it is and I know you are kNot one to get things wrong, to end up causing confusion.

It's like a friend of mine once said, after losing an argument to me:

"Nonetheless, there are 3 things I hold true:

1. 1 plus 1 always equals 2.
2. Light is the opposite of Dark.
3. A circle's beginnng is its end.

Not a single one of those is correct!

1 + 1 does kNot always equal 2. In Numerology, 1 plus 1 can equal 11 and in some cases, 1 + 1 can equal 3.

Light is the SOURCE and Dark & Bright are it's varibles. Saying Light is the opposite of Dark, is like saying Heat is the opposite of Cold, when Heat is the SOURCE and Hot and Cold are its varibles.

A circle's beginning isn't its end. For a circle to begin, it has to move from Zero a finite amount of distance, thus the correct saying is:

"Where a circle begins FROM, is where it ends."

It's misconceptions that screw up so much and I was just trying to point out your misconception of the werds "equal" and "equals" is all.

Ribbit

Originally posted by Solomonopoly
reply to post by GringoViejo

 

You'll find a lot of people who know more than some freemasons themselves among the rosicrucian crowd. And I'm not talking about the cheap paper monographs you get in the mail kind either.

"Matthew 13:11"

I wonder how do you know that? I checked your previous posts and it looks like you know a lot about Secret Societies. Are you a member of Rosicrucian Order or a Freemason? Or have you just read it somewhere? I would appreciate to learn more about Rosicrucians.

You could read a book about playing piano without actually trying to play. In fact you could read every book about pianos and playing pianos that has ever been written, until you know more about playing pianos than any pianist in the world.

Still, you would not be able to play piano.