OWS DOA or Simply Misdirected?

Well done in encapsulating the issue.

A couple things I would like to add to what you have though:

Capitalism in true form doesn't exist today. There is no free market, and nowhere in a Capitalist country should a bank or other organisation be "bailed out". The federal reserve has been creating the boom/bust cycle with their manipulation of currency, as opposed to being determined by businesses/supply and demand.

If a company is failing, it should fail. It shows that the business model was not successful. Simple. New/smarter businesses should be taking the place of people who have lost the motivation to create good business



Ron Paul, albeit you are correct that he would be a black sheep in the White House... At the same time, if he was elected, people would have to listen to him. I've watched plenty of his debates, interviews and public appearances. He is consistent above all else. No matter who goes into office, there is a need for someone who sticks to what they say. So far, there are not many other candidates. Will it revolutionize the world? Maybe not. But it might make people remember how important your word is...





S&F

reply to post by SLAYER69


I couldn't agree with you more. Excellent post and inforation laying it all out in terms people can grasp and understand.

Ron Paul, Obama, Bush, Washington......

All it takes in this country is for one person to say

- I have an idea.


1 person in a sea of 300 million, 1 idea in a sea of limitless possibilities.

Its going to require that idea not only being thrown into the sea, but for the sea to carry it to all corners, tossing, turning, churning, dragging it down and then pushing back to the surface, eventually returning the idea, successfully, to the shore.

That can only happen when the sea is involved though.

reply to post by Jakes51



You know jakes you do bring a lot to a thread.
That was very informative

Well, as usual I'm a day late and a dollar short getting to this thread. I've spent the afternoon researching Gene Sharp. That's a name you'll eventually hear linked to this OWS thingy - I hesitate to call it a "movement". I've got a lot of his written stuff before me now, but it's going to be a lot of reading before analysis, so I'll hold off on anything in-depth in regards to him or the "Albert Einstein Institution" he founded to spread these sorts of "changes".

A cursory examination makes it appear that they intend to "nice" freedom to death. I'm not really buying that. If that's the strategy, it's only a part of it. Sharp want to promote moves from "dictatorship" (as if!) to "democracy", aka "mob rule" or "the dictatorship of the proletariat".

I can see the Unseen Hand directing this, with people glomming on to one particular facet or another, claiming to have the entire picture. They don't, but I'm sure they think they do.

There's no mention anywhere that I've seen of individuality, or the protection of an individual's liberty. It appears to be the intent to subsume individuals into the collective, Borg-like.

There are other names for the philosophies which promote collectivism.

I'll die beneath the feet of the stampeding mob before I see it come to fruition here.

[size=12]THE GRAND OWS PLAN


It's clear that the little men behind the curtain here, the folks pulling the strings, are the collectivists. Just pick a list of demands at random and read through it with that in mind, and you'll see it. Another indication is the target they've picked. The gripes are more properly addressed by government, but inexplicably they've sent the crowd to Wall Street. One must wonder why that is, and the answer is that they already have a solid toe hold in government, and don't want to upset the apple cart by directing the protestors to DC, where some remedial action could actually be expected, more so than from a bunch of bean counters in New York. Some of the demand lists specifically address their demands to DC, so why in the hell are they in New York to deliver them? They have a goodly number of these folks hoodwinked, having sold the event with whatever they wanted to hear.

Now they have their mob collected, with some still straggling in.

If this goes true to form as it has in other places with the same folks pulling the strings, they will start sending in organizers, like unions, to try to get this thing organized and give it a more pointed focus and direction. That's when you'll get better view of the Dragon's Head, and that's when the fireworks will start.

This is how it's done. More or less random mobs are collected, with their own individual gripes which are all over the map. The only thing in common is that the people in the mobs are always pissed off about something. The collectivist organizers channel that anger, give it a focus, and start throwing these people against the walls of the collectivists' choosing. It's easier to do with angry folk, whose emotions are already set to stun. You just work up the pitch, point 'em in a direction, and turn 'em loose.

All the while the top dawg organizers stand back from the action and watch the show. You'll never find them in the front. That's what underlings are for.

This serves as notice that it's known who the string-pullers are, and if they get our people hurt by misusing and misdirecting their best intentions, when the dust settles we will hunt them down like rabid dogs. There will be no hole deep enough, no mountain high enough, and no stone will be left unturned. There will be hell to pay.

Not on our watch. Be careful of the wars you wish for.

--------------------------------

Change simply for the sake of change is seldom a good thing. To effect real, solid, lasting, GOOD change starts with an idea, progresses through an articulation of achievable goals which are a benefit to the People, rather than just a destruction of "the system" leaving a vacuum, THEN on to action. What has been missing here is the articulation part. I see that they want to "tear down the system", but they aren't very articulate on what they intend to REPLACE it with.

That sends up red flags - all over the place. Fine. You've got people mobilized. Now pull any ten out of that crowd and find out from THEM what the goals are beyond destroying the system. If they can't articulate the end result beyond destruction of the system, and they aren't on the same page of what they CAN articulate, what you have here is a bunch of "useful idiots". They will be used and abused to further someone ELSE'S goals, then tossed by the wayside.

I don't believe they'll be able to effect any sort of "lasting change", or even approach their stated objectives. I further believe that the real objective is to set fires at several different points, in several different cities, with the real objective being to burn the whole thing down. Then they hope to "reorganize", after their own likeness and in their own image, in the ashes of the aftermath. That is the consolidation phase, the point where the collectivists traditionally "liquidate" the opposition that they had previously employed and directed to achieve their own goals (aka Stalin's "useful idiots"), and there is a phase, either longer or shorter, of fighting "counterrevolutionaries", ensuring that their own faction comes out on top.

I see that as the plan in operation, but how far it gets along that path is dependent upon a lot of variables. So far, in the US those sorts of plans have fizzled out in the inception for the most part, and this one may, too. The thing to watch for is how many points these "fires" flare up at, and when they turn violent. "Agent provocateurs" are not a uniquely GOVERNMENT monopoly. Collectivists have used them to good effect time and time again, all the while BLAMING the first shot on the government. The idea is to PROVOKE a government crackdown, thus galvanizing public opinion against the government for it's "heavy-handedness", and in favor of "the movement", while the collectivist directors of that movement remain in the shadows to avoid attention, making it appear to be a "spontaneous popular uprising".

Colletivists have a history of sacrificing "martyrs" to "the cause" with the objective of villifying the opposition an making it appear that THEY are the ones who "started the fight". That's what they do to try to sway popular support to the agenda they want to formulate. Provoking a crackdown is how they do that. Perhaps oddly, the ones who die in martyrdom seem never to be the ones actually directing things, the ones with the grand plan to come out on the top of the collective... and no "movement" ever gets off the ground without that popular support gathered by "fighting for the underdog".

They first have to manufacture some underdogs as a rally point. The photos of the deceased on the signs at the ensuing protest narches do a pretty good job of that. Doesn't matter if the "martyr" was actually for the cause, or just a bystander. As long as they get a death to work with, they'll abuse that death for their own purposes.

How far will it get this time? Who knows? We can hope it fizzles out again, and that room will be made for meaningful change in it's place. I just think it's prudent to be aware of the strategies, and watch for the signs. When you see them, you will recognize them if you know what to look for. In that way, we can all plan accordingly to insure our own survival - and hope that we never have to activate those contingency plans.

SOME ONE knows the ultimate goal, and the system they want to replace the current one with. THOSE are the people who need to be looked into before just jumping on the band wagon, because THOSE are the ones who will fill the vacuum with "something" other than just nebulous "change". We need to know what the intended "something" is.

----------------------------

I can't support the protests themselves, because it's not overly difficult to see who's pulling the strings. They've not got your best interests at heart any more than the wall Street bankers and traders do.

I was asked recently if these people were fired upon, would I revolt? Without hesitation, the answer is yes. Not in support of the ideology, but in support of American Citizens and against their getting bum rushed. I may not agree with the ideology, but they are still "my people". I think that the majority of them have good intentions, but are being misled and manipulated by inimical forces.

Being misled doesn't equate to being worthy of being fired upon.

I'll come a-runnin' if they're fired upon by the government, because stomping down the people I cannot abide, whether I agree with their philosophy or not. It only makes it that much worse when the people getting stomped down don't really know why they are there to begin with, and are acting under an unseen hand. They are innocent, and their good intentions are being hijacked and misused, such that they are to be human shields to bear the brunt of any repercussions. Until and unless that happens, they'll have to throw their protest party without me or my support.

So yeah, if that were to happen, I'd be right out there. HOWEVER - when the dust settles and the smoke clears, and the real powers behind this came to claim their prize, those string-pullers I mentioned above, then, sir, then... there will REALLY be hell to pay!

--------------------------------

I hope Ron Paul wins.
Hes what this country really needs. The whole mess was decades in the making and we will have to work together to get ourselves out of this jam.

s and f

reply to post by nenothtu


Maybe I should have written a Occupy Steve Jobs funeral thread today?

reply to post by SLAYER69


yeah maybe its an omen the death of one of the greatest capitalists of recent history if ows gets their way

there wont be anyone bringing a vision to fruition and making a buck off it enriching their lives and the worlds.

we dropped the ball and now must pay the piper, we got lazy fat and stupid we are the ruling minority of the human race. let it all burn to the ground and let the fittest survive. it works for nature so why not us too. we need to have a clean sweep.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Oh I hear ya. I'm not sure if it's that much of a runway movement yet. But their voice has been heard. Let's see if they can shed some of the unwanted influences and gain real momentum in Washington DC.

I wonder where everybody that supports the cause is? It appears if the REAL issues are being discussed hardly anybody is interested. But if there is a video released of some protesters being arrested then it's

OMG Police State blah blah blah

reply to post by SLAYER69


Steve Jobs died? I reckon not knowing that is the price I pay for keeping the TV turned off!

If they "Occupy" his funeral, what do you suppose the demand would be? That Apple stops charging you for a product, then CONTINUING to charge you to use it with only proprietary stuff?

It's odd to me that many of the people in this "movement" seem to be Apple supporters and users, considering the hyper-capitalistic model Apple embraces.

Maybe we have just become an iNation, and it's a function of that - the "youth" who are at the forefront of this thingy would be utterly lost and entirely alone in the world without their iGadetry - iPods, iPhones, iPads, iEtc., yet they want to burn down the "capitalism" that provides those very things.

iRonically, if they were to actually bring capitalism down, the movement itself would be forced to vanish like a fart in a windstorm - communications to keep it going would come to a grinding, screeching, screaming halt, and few if any of them have been trained or are at all well versed in alternate forms of communication. They would just fade away for lack of communication to effect coordinated "Occupations".

reply to post by neo96



It truly speaks to the thoroughness of your education that you can correctly use a phrase as commonly misquoted as "more often than NAUGHT;" your contributions to a free-information site whose merit is based on that of its constituents is a blow to tyranny itself.

I must have a jibe at the statement that RON PAUL cannot be elected, however. If you say it, it will come true!!! Which is why they did that bit on SNL about him (they couldn't find anything to make fun of him for, because he represents the founding fathers quid pro quo, nothing funny about that). Damn it, you keep talking about the evils of the Fed, have you witnessed the ACTION that Paul has ALREADY taken against Bernanke and those sinister banksters??? He's kryptonite! Everyone has to keep him away because their twisted hearts and evil agendas will become apparent!!!

Ron Paul is not perfect, and indeed he PROBABLY won't get elected. But saying "admittedly the most qualified candidate for the office of president will not be nominated, so we shouldn't be behind him because we will be disappointed" is an admission of defeat, and you will see the destruction of this country in your lifetime based on that attitude.

Furthermore (I have been meaning to make a thread out of this but I can't because I am a n00b) by the end of 2011, the biggest news of the last 100 years will be out, Cold Fusion is a reality. Andrea Rossi is building a factory to make consumer units and fossil fuels WILL BE OBSOLETE. #@$* solar panels, give me low-energy-nuclear-reactions, THAT will be a game-changing fact. I think the only candidate ready to handle that type of idea is Paul, who will approach it in free-market manner. By February (Iowa Caucasus), this will be serious news. Over and out!!!!!!

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I wonder where everybody that supports the cause is? It appears if the REAL issues are being discussed hardly anybody is interested. But if there is a video released of some protesters being arrested then it's

OMG Police State blah blah blah

4chan sez: "Don't go to Slayer's thread - IT'S A TRAP!"

At least it's not a TARP!

I've been thinking, and all that's necessary to utterly defeat this "movement" is for TPTB, or whomever it is they're protesting or occupying, to simply ignore it. Don't worry what they do, where they eat, IF they eat, or shower, or anything else. Just go on about your business and ignore them. Go back and forth in your normal routine, and just look right through them. It's supposed to be "non-violent" right? So what are they gonna do if no one notices them? get MORE non-violent?

Gene Sharp is absolutely correct in his basic premise (yeah, I've been reading) that ultimate power derives from the governed, and if the governed refuse to comply with the directives of the governing, then the governing loses all power, all legitimacy, and just vanishes. Works that way for government, and it works that way for corporations, too. If their power supply suddenly goes on the fritz, they're dead in the water.

So them what if that's turned around, and the protested simply refuses to comply with the protestors? Oops, there goes their power.

Sucks to be them, then, and it's getting cold out there, too....

Originally posted by warrenite
reply to post by neo96

 

I must have a jibe at the statement that RON PAUL cannot be elected, however. If you say it, it will come true!!!

There is much truth in that statement.
There are holding him down through visible manipulation.

Well I'm out for the night.

Peace

I may check back after the pub...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Good work man, Star and Flag for you!

reply to post by nenothtu


Mine certainly isn't the most contributory post in this thread(lol), but I will say your post was absolutely brilliant and appreciated.

And based on your post that would make this movement misdirected, or, technically, directed but in a covert manner.

Definite food for thought.

reply to post by ColCurious


In my opinion,the proud patriots are preparing,gathering information,
gaining strength and waiting for the right time to act.
Any kind of mass demonstration could do more harm then good.I
believe some people are being provoked to act first then think of what
they are doing.Any action taken has to be well planned and executed.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I'll be back... No time now