OWS DOA or Simply Misdirected?

Originally posted by Observor

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

If you think there is a Communist conspiracy that's somehow locked in with unions, Anarchists, and Socialists, then you're either an uneducated moron or a disinformation/propaganda agent. Either way, you need to either educate yourself and come back to the adult discussion table or STFU immediately

If Occupy Wall Street threatens you... then you're probably not of a truly revolutionary/enlightened mind. And go ahead and tell me I'm being unfairly critical, but the truth is the truth and I'm not going to bite my tongue, I will tell you to your face that you're DEAD WRONG.

Calm down!

You don't really expect the 99% to join you because you claim to fight for them, do you?

Most people are afraid of the unknown and that is exactly what the OWS movement is right now, the unknown. Soon it will gain focus and more will join it. Most will join it when it looks like a winner, not right now.

When someone has to take you by the hand and show you what to be mad at, there isn't much hope in you being anything except a sheeple, and that is exactly what this entire movement exhibited for the whole world to see. If people are waiting on the sidelines for a winner, he already showed his face when he endorsed this protest, maybe you missed it along with the rest, and no it wasn't Charlie Sheen.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7dcfc014ced0.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

If you think there is a Communist conspiracy that's somehow locked in with unions, Anarchists, and Socialists, then you're either an uneducated moron or a disinformation/propaganda agent. Either way, you need to either educate yourself and come back to the adult discussion table or STFU immediately

If Occupy Wall Street threatens you... then you're probably not of a truly revolutionary/enlightened mind. And go ahead and tell me I'm being unfairly critical, but the truth is the truth and I'm not going to bite my tongue, I will tell you to your face that you're DEAD WRONG.

look at commies raging... funny #. it's like jesus camp. lol.

Originally posted by Observor
that is exactly what the OWS movement is right now, the unknown. Soon it will gain focus and more will join it.

but that's not part of the plan. "we" need to join "NOW". as scheduled. that's why every pinhead associated with ows is raging like a 5yr old baby if "you" have something to say which they don't like. also, the immediate presence of "celebrities" and establishment talkingheads and "professionals" should be a clear sign where this "revolution" is headed. also, anyone remembers "usdayofrage"? aren't those the same people? read some cartalluci or tarpley on this whole "color" revolution bull# trend(s). it. will. blow. your. mind. lol.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Bro. seriously. Shredding the constitution? They want to LISTEN to the constitution for once. And of course most people already know that wall street is corrupt but don't do anything about it. THE POINT is that some people decided they were "mad as hell and weren't going to take it anymore" and decided to protest. Do you realize how much more prosperous our people (yea you too) could be if most of the money wasn't being laundered all over the place by those guys? How much more prosperous the world would be?

I say this only because I want to help you. You're obviously very close to my views, but different in some serious ways. Take a class on Logic. Or just learn it online, nowadays the internet is as good as college if you know where to look and actually want to learn something. My Logic class for real changed my life. You can only see the truth when you can look at every side of the story, including your own, and check to see which one does not make a assumption or commit some kind of fallacy (almost always unintentionally).

This is where I completely lost you. You said that most people already know that Wall Street is corrupt, but dont do anything about it. Therefore, you say, the whole protest is a "moot point." If anything, the fact that people know this only makes it more credible that they're corrupt, thus giving more reason to end it. There will always be people who don't do anything about something they know is wrong... it's not like the protestors are alone in the battle, many many people are behind them but aren't willing to call in sick or neglect their kids to go protest.

Also, communism does not have anything to do with genocide... I'm not a fan, but it's never happened in real life because it has always quickly become a dictatorship, very different. And Pol Pot had nothing to do with communism. Read Noam Chomsky, the US was bombing (secretly) Cambodia for like 8 years before that and those that survived had no food or means to survive, so we basically ended up killing something like 2 million people if I remember correctly. Then, as their economy was basically nothing, Pol Pot came forward and started talking about how he could save the country, but he ended up being crazy. Remind you of someone else? (spoiler: Hitler)

No one wants to overthrow the US, they want it to be a true republic democracy which is not completely controlled by the few people with tons of money. Come on, you're on ATS you have to know that you have no say in this country (unless you're a millionaire, in which case my apologies, I don't know you)

So unions come out and support the protests. I'm not a huge union guy, but any support is more recognition is more power. I know (or guess) that the "liberals" and democratic party are going to try to hijack this movement, but the people protesting are smarter than that. It is people like you who will lose interest in the protests as soon as a union or a politician shows support. And that, smart people giving up because they don't want to be on the same side as someone they don't like, will cause the demise of this movement.

Keep in mind that the protestors want to REFORM WALL STREET. All the other stuff, "socialist agenda," "shredding the Constitution" are just things that some people who are protesting might also want, but honestly I've been keeping up with this pretty well and haven't seen any of the sort. At all. Stop watching the news. Once again, you're on ATS, you should know this.

Once again a huge fallacy in your talk about Ron Paul. First of all, yes, he does represent change. But he represents legit, huge changes to which Obama's false promises paled in comparison. If he were elected President, of course he would be (probably) shut out by both sides, but he would have the platform to convince the electorate which voted him into office to vote for people who believe in the Constitution and peace, etc. You didn't (probably couldn't, not even the News can) even try to attack Ron Paul's views, you just said if he got elected no one would listen to him. That does not mean that you should allow some corporate-sponsored sociopath to win (and all other legit candidates are). VOTE FOR THE PERSON YOU AGREE WITH!! And Vote, period! I know it never work out how you want it, but Ron Paul is the one guy who will certainly not go back on his views, he's been saying the same thing for years! He knew about the real estate bubble and tried to warn people about it. He has studied the economy his whole life.

You also need to watch (cant remember name) a documentary about Edward Bernays. They don't need to have a real police state, its much more efficient to convince people to buy into their system than to kill them. But they def have the kill you card in their back pocket.

reply to post by lldd182


Oh, and Anonymous wears masks because they are targeted and arrested by the FBI. There is "some governmental backlash." The protestors wear the masks to show support, and because the whole V for Vendetta analogy is pretty spot on.

If you support many of the things they do then support them!!!! Don't back out because of some trivial garbage, if you want to end the corruption of Wall Street then support them! Just because you saw some guy in a video say something about shredding the constitution (which I've yet to see) doesn't mean that that's what all of them think, and that doesn't mean that's what will happen if they get support!

You say "open a book people," but I'm afraid you're reading the wrong books.
Read Noam Chomsky. Read Derrick Jensen (he's a huge environmentalist but he has some excellent books completely unrelated to the environment, and he's also easily the best writer I've ever seen in terms of engaging the reader and making reading seem effortless and enjoyable). Read Edward Bernays, he's Sigmund Freud's nephew who taught governments (namely the US govt) how to use Freud's discoveries to control the thinking of the masses. It is much, much easier and cheaper to convince a people they're doing the right thing when they support you than to threaten them if they don't.

I've never seen that video of FDR's second bill of rights. Excellent. But, I bet if I came up to you and said that those things should be guaranteed to people you'd say it's part of the "socialist agenda."

I say all of this with respect and love.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

If you think there is a Communist conspiracy that's somehow locked in with unions, Anarchists, and Socialists, then you're either an uneducated moron or a disinformation/propaganda agent. Either way, you need to either educate yourself and come back to the adult discussion table or STFU immediately

If Occupy Wall Street threatens you... then you're probably not of a truly revolutionary/enlightened mind. And go ahead and tell me I'm being unfairly critical, but the truth is the truth and I'm not going to bite my tongue, I will tell you to your face that you're DEAD WRONG.

Hmmm... let me ponder that... you come in like a madwoman slinging crap with a sock, telling folks how wrong they are, and how uneducated... moronic... disinfo agents (my personal favorite bit of mud-slinging, always resorted to in the face of a lack of facts and an inability to argue merits) in great big letters, then offer no logical reason or evidence for your stand... We all need to "STFU", and are "DEAD WRONG", yet YOU are the one unable to articulate a refutation...

Yes, let me ponder that. I may even lose sleep over it...

ETA: I'm still pondering, and have a question: since they have (and it's historically verifiable fact) formed EXACTLY such coalitions elsewhere in the world, what exactly is going to magically prevent it in this one singular instance?

edit on 2011/10/6 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

That's the whole point... I don't need to articulate a point-by-point refutation because the OP is ridiculous and irrelevant. Period. For those of you stupid enough to side with the OP and against me... you're not my friend, you're mentally stunted. I'm serious... I'm not gonna play nice with this propaganda, if you lend yourself, batting your eyelashes, to this kind of mislead BS, then you get no respect from me. I just want you to know that you're dead wrong whether you believe it or not.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

Basically what you are saying is: "agree with my point of view or do not speak at all". Very nice for a so called "enlightened mind".

I am an enlightened mind relative to the rest of you right-wing xenophobes. Listen... I'm not claiming I'm enlightened in respect to ego and humility at this point... because crap like this enrages me, and the fact that a fair amount of people follow it makes it even worse. I'm only human... and as a human who has tried, even against his own comfort/happiness, to seek the ultimate truth... I can only say you're a bunch of intellectual cowards who are siding with ANYTHING that will reinforce your bullsh*t worldview, even if it means railing against a truly anti-establishment movement.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

Yeah yeah that's all fine but....

"I'm from a rural Area. [you know where 69% of us Americans live) So how does any of that apply to me?>

Keep stretching!

edit on 6-10-2011 by SLAYER69 because: lots of fact flying ATM

Wtf are you even talking about??

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

DUDE!

I'll respectfully suggest you know your place which is outside AMERICAN politics

The Big Dogs talk!

edit on 6-10-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

My place is wherever the F*CK I decide it is. Get out of here with your pandering and faux-patriot BS. I can't believe people bought your nationalism and awarded you stars for it.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

If you think there is a Communist conspiracy that's somehow locked in with unions, Anarchists, and Socialists, then you're either an uneducated moron or a disinformation/propaganda agent. Either way, you need to either educate yourself and come back to the adult discussion table or STFU immediately

If Occupy Wall Street threatens you... then you're probably not of a truly revolutionary/enlightened mind. And go ahead and tell me I'm being unfairly critical, but the truth is the truth and I'm not going to bite my tongue, I will tell you to your face that you're DEAD WRONG.

WTF you on?

I have no idea what your post is even about.

Learn the english language... then re-read my post. It's not that difficult. I don't even care if you're on my side... you're being a smarta** for stars... which is just pathetic.

Originally posted by Observor

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

If you think there is a Communist conspiracy that's somehow locked in with unions, Anarchists, and Socialists, then you're either an uneducated moron or a disinformation/propaganda agent. Either way, you need to either educate yourself and come back to the adult discussion table or STFU immediately

If Occupy Wall Street threatens you... then you're probably not of a truly revolutionary/enlightened mind. And go ahead and tell me I'm being unfairly critical, but the truth is the truth and I'm not going to bite my tongue, I will tell you to your face that you're DEAD WRONG.

Calm down!

You don't really expect the 99% to join you because you claim to fight for them, do you?

Most people are afraid of the unknown and that is exactly what the OWS movement is right now, the unknown. Soon it will gain focus and more will join it. Most will join it when it looks like a winner, not right now.

Calm down?? Did you read the OP or not?? It was full of ridiculous assumptions and false connections... which is nothing new here, but you should also expect heated retaliations against unsubstantiated claims.

The movement is growing exponentially right now... most will join it soon enough, and judgments upon a relatively newborn movement are hot air lost on the wind.

Originally posted by psyop911

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

If you think there is a Communist conspiracy that's somehow locked in with unions, Anarchists, and Socialists, then you're either an uneducated moron or a disinformation/propaganda agent. Either way, you need to either educate yourself and come back to the adult discussion table or STFU immediately

If Occupy Wall Street threatens you... then you're probably not of a truly revolutionary/enlightened mind. And go ahead and tell me I'm being unfairly critical, but the truth is the truth and I'm not going to bite my tongue, I will tell you to your face that you're DEAD WRONG.

look at commies raging... funny #. it's like jesus camp. lol.

Interesting how your alias is "psyop"... while ignoring what I actually said and calling me a "commie" when I'm anti-Communist in most respects. Try again, disinfo newb.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


What's wrong with being open minded on the issue, it's not like there isn't evidence to suggest groups affiliated to both the democrats and George soros have some involvement in this movement. How much effect they will have on the group is debatable. From what I have seen, OWS seems to understand that their group is vulnerable to being co-opted and used by government or other interest groups. I hope that they remain external interest free, but you have to recognise the possibility that they wil be exploited to further other's less well meaning agendas. Look what happened to the tea party.

I really don't believe much will come from these demonstrations, so those on the right should not lose too much sleep over these protests and if they are losing sleep then maybe they should get involved rather than snipe from the sidelines.

Having said that your post is divisive, I'm looking for ways to find a consensus, a common ground. All this with us or against us doesn't wash with me, never has.

reply to post by User8911


I've not known of one country historically or at present, where a Socialist movement hasn't lead to Communism.
As for working in a job that makes us happy, what does that mean? We'll have 200 million football players and no cleaners, no factory workers, no food packaging workers? I don't think that would work.

Originally posted by SecretFace
reply to post by User8911

 

I've not known of one country historically or at present, where a Socialist movement hasn't lead to Communism.
As for working in a job that makes us happy, what does that mean? We'll have 200 million football players and no cleaners, no factory workers, no food packaging workers? I don't think that would work.

Well you could use an example from your very own country to show how a socialist movement has not turned into communism. The Labour Party was created by the trade unions and was socialist in nature, still no communism in the UK and probably no Labour party in government for many years to come.

Footballers are also quite a good example at how capitalism has gone out of control. A premiership player makes more in one week than a nurse could make in 4 years . Now tell me who provides the more valued service.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

If you think there is a Communist conspiracy that's somehow locked in with unions, Anarchists, and Socialists, then you're either an uneducated moron or a disinformation/propaganda agent. Either way, you need to either educate yourself and come back to the adult discussion table or STFU immediately

If Occupy Wall Street threatens you... then you're probably not of a truly revolutionary/enlightened mind. And go ahead and tell me I'm being unfairly critical, but the truth is the truth and I'm not going to bite my tongue, I will tell you to your face that you're DEAD WRONG.

well,

if it's not any of the above,

please explain WHAT it really is all about then.

the rant is fine,

but some will not get your point.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy


Calm down?? Did you read the OP or not?? It was full of ridiculous assumptions and false connections... which is nothing new here, but you should also expect heated retaliations against unsubstantiated claims.

The movement is growing exponentially right now... most will join it soon enough, and judgments upon a relatively newborn movement are hot air lost on the wind.

Sorry,I wont be joining a bunch of misguided youth who are angry at the bankers. The Bankers dont make the Laws. The bankers who are politicians,make the laws.

Second,these youths are idiots,just like Obama. I watched these youths,while wearing their Che Guevara shirts,with their V for Vendetta masks on,chanting "down with the establishment". If they were smart,they would protest right across from the White House. They would get ALL the publicity they need.

You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.
Rahm Emanuel


They cant even protest right. Those "protesting" only for free Radiohead concert were disappointed. I was also......

The Single Most Intelligent Thing That Has Been Said About Soros + OWS

Forgive the shameless thread plug, but I think it's more than relevant.

reply to post by SLAYER69

That is why it's even more distressing to me when a bunch of starry eyed delusional people start agreeing with the tenants of Communism. Unless they are in their late 50s or older those impressionable kids on ATS Asspousing the virtues of Communism here in these threads have no clue what the hell they're talking about. Communism works great on paper as an academic study but in the real REAL world people die and die by the tens of Millions.

Hell, even the closest thing to REAL communism [Red China] gave up the ghost in favor of Capitalism. It only took the butchering of about 30+ million during the cultural revolution. Do we here in the West seriously need to go through all of that? What about the Millions killed by Stalin or Pol Pot? Give it a rest. Open your eyes and read who your bed fellows are and who you're closing ranks with. Unions, Communist and people who are advocating the violent overthrowing of the Republic.

Not to mention the money funnels it creates.

The 20th century c-systems got more people rich than many seem to admit.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
When someone has to take you by the hand and show you what to be mad at, there isn't much hope in you being anything except a sheeple, and that is exactly what this entire movement exhibited for the whole world to see.

They know exactly who to be mad at and are already showing it. But what they don't know is exactly what to do about it or how to go about doing what they need to. That requires leadership, which is yet to emerge.

If people are waiting on the sidelines for a winner, he already showed his face when he endorsed this protest, maybe you missed it along with the rest, and no it wasn't Charlie Sheen.

Quite a few "endorsed" the protest. That doesn't mean they control it or are orchestrating it.