Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

reply to post by gabby2011


It is the conspiracy theory of a lifetime for sure and because I am into conspiracies, like most on ATS, I of course believe it's possible.

On topic sort of , if anyone has not seen or read the john grisham book / movie RUNAWAY JURY, it is a really fun and interesting read. Its' about how one juror of the 12 can swing the whole trial HIS way if he's so inclined. It's totally fascinating. This was in response to the jury talk a few posts back.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Probable cause being if one or more of the family members who actually TOOK A CALL from Deb call police and say this conversation did take place?
Uncle seems fishy but I just can't throw out what he's saying. It is possible. It answers a lot of questions about why police are being so quiet, etc. They believe they KNOW what happened.

Someone left a sort of threat to deb on some forum the other night.... paraphrasing it went like "" you had a chance to come clean and you did not, so now we will tell what we saw. we wondered what you were doing at the window that night and now we know and we will tell what we saw '' etc. I'm going to guess tehre are tons of busy bodies saying things like this or inserting themself where they don't belong. Just food for thought. Could be something, could be nothing.
Speaking of nothing............ did Megan Wright fall off the face of the earth ? Or is it possible shes' brought a little too much attention her way and now wishes she'd been quiet? thoughts?

reply to post by Xcathdra

Its dependent on if they can confirm the calls took place. Law Enforcement needs to obtain a warrant in order to get those phone records = requires probable cause.

But how would they confirm the calls took place..if they only have one persons testimony against another?

Wouldn't the testimony by the uncle be enough to warrant probable cause..?

If they actually did get a call.. and they lied to police..the police would just accept their testimony against the uncles ?

I think in a case of a missing baby they would have sufficient cause to check out if this story from the uncle could be true and check out phone records.

reply to post by schmae

Someone left a sort of threat to deb on some forum the other night.... paraphrasing it went like "" you had a chance to come clean and you did not, so now we will tell what we saw. we wondered what you were doing at the window that night and now we know and we will tell what we saw '' etc.

Sounds like a stupid threat based on nothing..because if they saw something..and have waited until now to say something.. they are fools.. and obstructing justice as far as I'm concerned. They should have stepped up with that info prompto..like most people would have..

I think its BS..and just some mean spirited person trying to play with their heads..and hearts.

reply to post by gabby2011


Would you call the police if you saw something weird going on at a neighbor's window in the middle of the night? I think I would not. I would just say wonder what those folks are up to. But in the morning when the news and police have descended on that very HOUSE and a baby is missing, I'd be on the phone in a heart beat. You are correct. If they did see something and waited until now, then they may well be guilty of something like failure to aid or facilitation of some part of the crime. I don't know. But you know if you see a car wreck and drive by you are obligated to report it to get help to those who are injured.

For what it's worth a quick google of cyndy short shows the last time any mention of her continuing to look for baby Lisa was in her presser when she said she was going to right when she was taken off/ removed/ or left the case for the family. I 'd been thinking last couple days that if she were still looking then it would be a strong indication of STRANGER abduction. Short can't say what the parents told her but if she believed Lisa were alive and taken by a stranger and then made a big public statement that she will still be looking, then that would point to innocence on parents' behalf. But if someone said soemthing to her in confidentiality that pointed to parental guilt then she wouldn't be wasting time or money to search for a baby who won't be found. So, no mention since November 1 of any cyndy short organized searches or any other mention of it. This was a quick googling, not extensive, so there could be something, but its' certainly not at the top !

reply to post by schmae


She could have been told to not taint potential witnesses?

Also just because we have no records of her continuing in the search doesn't mean she isn't..

Really hoping for a solid break in this case.. so we can finally put an end to all the speculation..I would really like to see the TRUTH come out concerning this case.

reply to post by gabby2011


I doubt we will ever know Gab. At this late stage, it's unlikely any REAL solid proof of anything will come out. Unless Deb confesses, or unless a kidnapper confesses, we will never know the truth. I do hope that if Deb is 100% innocent that she does not go to prison for this. I know you think I been on her case and I do think shes' guilty of something, but I am reasonable enough to see there are 2 sides here and neither is proven as of yet. I just hope she doesn't get sent to prison if she's innocent ..... that's the worst outcome there is now that her child is lost.

reply to post by schmae

I doubt we will ever know Gab. At this late stage, it's unlikely any REAL solid proof of anything will come out.

I hope you are wrong about that..because if Debbie and Jeremy are innocent..it would be great for them..as well as family to get closure.. I'm sure any parent with a missing child who is innocent of wrong doing would feel the same.

As well as ..the fact that if no real proof comes out.. those parents will always be under the scrutiny and suspicion as well as down right hate from a large portion of the public.. and that is sad to me.. if they are innocent.

Was looking at the psychic's blog. She stated that on Thursday, a couple of women went to that area to search. Evidently they had not seen Stephanie's blog with the pic and drawing. But the lady reported to Stephanie that the stench was unbelievable, and they called the cops, who were expected to be there in 10-15 minutes (from when they called them).

If that statement is true, we were not advised in the media that the police had followed up on that lead...indicating that they are still working, which is a good thing.

reply to post by wildtimes


I think the police went out there in daylight on saturday and looked into it and found it to be nothing of substance.

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I think the police went out there in daylight on saturday and looked into it and found it to be nothing of substance.

Apparently multiple psychics have submitted info to the police and they have followed up on the info. So far nothing has panned out.

Psychic sparks search

Psychic sparks search for baby Lisa

The search area was based on the vision of a psychic from Texas. She said she saw a river by a tower and other elements that locals connected to this property.

"You watch it on television, and they hit it on the head a lot of times, and a lot of times they don't, so you don't know. Keep your fingers crossed," said Jerry Grimes, of Grandview.

Police have conducted multiple searches in the seven weeks since baby Lisa disappeared, but they said they will not be participating in this one.

Lisa's father, Jeremy Irwin, called 911 about 4 a.m. Oct. 4 to say that someone had snatched his daughter from her crib in her Northland home while she was sleeping. Her mother, Debbie Bradley, initially said she last saw her daughter about 10:30 p.m. but later admitted she had drank heavily in the hours before her daughter went missing and last remembered seeing her daughter at about 6:30 p.m.

Read article for remainder of info

Lisa was 10 months old at the time of her disappearance. Her first birthday was Nov. 11.

Police said they have received multiple tips from multiple psychics but none that have provided anything useful.

The psychic behind Saturday's effort drew a sketch of what she saw, posted it on her blog and people living in the Kansas City area made a connection to the old Sam's Town property.

The psychic told KCTV5 News by phone that she envisioned not just the area but a person with a baby.

"And then they (the people in her vision) came out and then they went down and they went into the river and then there was this tower beside it, and then I drew a big pole. It was like I was there, it was like I could see all of these things," said Stephanie Almaguer.

Another item that sparked Almaguer's interest was the railroad tracks that go through the property and a photo someone else posted on her blog showing a collapsed piece of gravel where she believes someone could be buried. So that will be a big focus of the search.

Around 11:30 a.m., those searching found an old well that matched the psychic's vision and called police for assistance.

reply to post by wildtimes

Interesting to add about that psychic search? In the link with video I posted a page or so back? One of the woman said the psychic was seeing 'caste towers' - and drew one. They found both at the scene. Also, some type of metal that was also found. That Lisa wasn't there? That leads to a whole bunch of assume I don't want to get into - but - it was interesting some really strong points were found.

I'll add one thing. The 'scuttlebutt' is the psychic told the info too far ahead of the search allowing time for someone to 'move' Lisa's body. IMO that's well above and over the top. Until I'm reminded by recent cases (Anthony case) the true evil humans are capable of. So, truth being stranger than fiction? You never know. My guts says no though.

peace

Here is a google earth image I took of the area the psychic is talking about. Aside from being very close to 2 highways (435 and 210), there appears to be an underground road as well as railroad side spurs that are isolated. Its not that far from the house either.

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I think the police went out there in daylight on saturday and looked into it and found it to be nothing of substance.

That's what I thought, too. The buzz at dinner was that they were going to follow up on Saturday (this group of searchers)..and some of my family wondered why they would wait. I had to agree...why wait two more days if you've got a lead?

Then I went to the pyschic's blog, just to have a look, and saw this post:

Thursday, November 24, 2011LISA IRWIN UPDATE. POLICE TO SEARCH TONIGHT
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

TWO LADIES, FOLLOWING MY BLOG, WERE IN THE SAMS TOWN AREA TODAY AND DECIDED TO LOOK AROUND... THEY ENDED UP AT THE RR TRACKS, DIRECTLY BEHIND SAM'S TOWN - WHERE THE PIPE IS COMING OUT OF THE GROUND....SAID THE RANK SMELL WAS SO HORRID, THEY COULDN'T GO CLOSER.......
- POLICE DEPARTMENT WILL BE THERE IN APROX 10-15 MINS. HOLD YOUR BREATH EVERYONE

Sorry for the all caps!! It was like that when I got there!!

Anyway, schmae, I just wondered if this blog entry is crapola, or if they did send someone out there on Thursday, looked around, then went back to their HQ...and the civilians decided to go looking there afterward.

The only evidence I have of a Thursday search / lead follow-up was the blog entry. Not real credible, journalistically speaking.stephaniealmaguer.blogspot.com... (The entry is about 1/4 down the page, dated Thursday Nov 24.)

reply to post by wildtimes


I'm going to go with crapola. This Stephanie lady has been quite a pistol since this began. A lot of spewing on fb and yelling at anyone who doubts her etc. There were many videos of her .......... doing strange things with her family . She made these vids and sent them into variou reality shows trying to get herself on tv. So what I'm seeing is probably more fame seeker than true psychic. I don't know a lot of psychics, but in general they don't strike me as fame and fortune seekers. Maybe I'm wrong.

reply to post by schmae


I agree, schmae. I saw part of the Part 2 video, and my impression of her as credible went "poof".

Her public rant was also quite "telling" -- so, no, I don't think I'd be consulting her for a reading or to find anything of mine, let alone my child.

Still, like X said, the police would follow up on any lead received, which is a good thing.

reply to post by schmae


It seems that the majorty of the "players" in this whole case are rather colorful characters. Her uncle Johnny in Delaware said that her father is looked on with suspicion that he might have had a hand in her mother's death.

Deborah's father has been reported as saying what a loving mother Deborah is, that she would have "run into the street screaming for help." Since that didn't happen, we just don't know what DID. And I agree with you also that we will most likely never know the truth, just like with Caylee Anthony's sad story.

Deborah's mother-in-law also said she couldn't imagine Deborah pulling off a cover-up. Her son, Deborah's husband, has been reported as having military-related PTSD issues which caused their separation. He supposedly said she "was a good mom," but he hasn't been near his WIFE and SON in years.

Deborah's former friends said she's a manipulator. And at Ft Bragg there was a strangely similar case involving a child who vanished and was later found dead in a box in the attic.

I think it's prudent to keep in mind that in many, many cases when people's most horrendous acts are exposed the neighbors, family, coworkers, shop clerks, etc. are frequently "shocked."

This group of people speaking about Deborah from personal experiences all have impressions of her based on their own relationships with her from the past. Looking at what each of them said and giving each the benefit of the doubt, I see an INCONSISTENT pattern that so far has not "added up" to make any of their character assessments of Deborah credible. I would look for consistencies in the reports of ALL informants before I would take their words collectively as to her character To me, it stands alone that the only person who really really knows Deborah is she herself. So I watch her behavior, and don't pay much attention to what her social circle has to say.

EDIT TO CLARIFY: The above is my approach as an unrelated civilian curious about what happened to that baby. If the case had landed on my desk, I would certainly have listened and paid CLOSE attention to what her social circle and family has to say. But, I have not interviewed those people, seen their faces, known them to be trustworthy and genuine or gossipy and vindictive. I only know what the MEDIA has told us, and THAT I don't pay a lot of credit to...

reply to post by wildtimes


I see what you're saying. If everyone in deb's past or circle of friends says she was ALL BAD or ALL GOOD , you'd have something to draw a conclusion on. Since there are widely varied accounts of her behavior, it's hard to know which one is Deb. But I think it is telling that friends/ acquaintances say one thing and family says another. We often act our worst when we're out with friends and do and say things we'd never say in front of our grandmother, correct?

reply to post by schmae


Yes, correct. But on the other hand, one would expect their family to highlight their relative's good qualities also, so as to miinimize the scandal that will touch them all.

So, yeah. I wish the neighbor lady Samantha would speak up about HER impressions of Deborah in the time frame of when this happened. Maybe she'll be a witness one day at a trial. Who knows?