Challenge: produce two photos from Shanksville scene showing plane wires

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

there are witnesses that said the plane flew over indian lake while losing parts and scattering debris BEFORE it crashed.

Name them.

reply to post by waypastvne

John Fleegle, a manager at the Indian Lake Marina about 1.5 miles from where Flight 93 crashes, is indoors with some colleagues, watching the televised coverage of the World Trade Center attack. Then, as he later describes, “All of a sudden the lights flickered and we joked that maybe they were coming for us. Then we heard engines screaming close overhead. The building shook. We ran out, heard the explosion and saw a fireball mushroom,” following the crash. When he later describes this incident while on a training course in Atlanta, Fleegle will be told that what happened means Flight 93 “was shot down.” A man there who says he is a retired Air Force officer will tell Fleegle, “[W]hen your lights flickered, [it was because] they zap the radar frequency on everything before they shoot. Your lights didn’t flicker from the impact—your lights flickered because they zapped the radar system before they shot it.” However, William “Buck” Kernan, a retired four-star Army general, will dispute this claim, saying, “[R]egarding an aircraft engaging an airborne target having an electrical disruption on the ground, no, this would not be a result of lock on or any electromagnetic pulsing.” He will suggest it is “possible that overpressure from explosions could momentarily disrupt microwave connections or cause sensations on ground relays, wiring, etc.” that might result in the lights having flickered. [PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW, 9/14/2001; LAPPE AND MARSHALL, 2004, PP. 35-36]

www.historycommons.org...

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

....snip....However, William “Buck” Kernan, a retired four-star Army general, will dispute this claim, saying, “[R]egarding an aircraft engaging an airborne target having an electrical disruption on the ground, no, this would not be a result of lock on or any electromagnetic pulsing.” He will suggest it is “possible that overpressure from explosions could momentarily disrupt microwave connections or cause sensations on ground relays, wiring, etc.” that might result in the lights having flickered. [PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW, 9/14/2001; LAPPE AND MARSHALL, 2004, PP. 35-36]

Self debunking! Nice job Shadow... will you be commenting on my photo on the previous page? You know, the crater....

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

There are witnesses that said the plane flew over indian lake while losing parts and scattering debris BEFORE it crashed.

I checked out your witnesses including; John Fleegle, Carol Delasko And Jim Stop

Both John and Carol said they were inside until after the crash soyhere is no way they could have seen the plane flying over indian lake while losing parts and scattering debris BEFORE it crashed.

Jim Stop was fishing at the time but doesn't really say he saw the plane flying over head, the reporter says it. He also says nothing about losing parts and scattering debris BEFORE it crashed.

Jim Stop of Somerset was fishing at the Indian Lake marina, about three miles from the crash site, when he looked up and saw the plane overhead.

“I heard the engine whine and scream,” Stop said.

He then heard an explosion and saw a fireball.

Pittsburg Trib

Do you have any witnesses that saw the plane flying over indian lake while losing parts and scattering debris BEFORE it crashed ? If not then just say so.

The reason why the lights flickered is so blatantly obvious that even a truther could figure it out.





I could be wrong though.

You are again. If you read the information carefully the lights flickered BEFORE the crash.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
You are again. If you read the information carefully the lights flickered BEFORE the crash.

I did read the information carefully.

Electricity does travel a little faster than sound.

At what speed does electricity travel in Truther World ?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
You are again. If you read the information carefully the lights flickered BEFORE the crash.

I did read the information carefully.

Electricity does travel a little faster than sound.

At what speed does electricity travel in Truther World ?

edit on 15-10-2011 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)

You are extremely dense.... to put it mildly.

Then, as he later describes, “All of a sudden the lights flickered and we joked that maybe they were coming for us. Then we heard engines screaming close overhead.

Read it again. Remember, dont troll and this isnt Jref.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Read it again.

Silly Truther, There's no need to read it again. This happened in the real world not Truther World. Here sound travels at about 1 mile every 5 seconds. Indian Lake marina is 2.35 miles from the crash site they were inside watching TV when the lights flickered. About 6 seconds after the flicker they would have started hearing the engines. And they would have heard the crash 12 seconds after the lights flickered, Then they ran outside and saw the fireball.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

There are witnesses that said the plane flew over indian lake while losing parts and scattering debris BEFORE it crashed.

So how about those names of witnesses that said the plane flew over indian lake while losing parts and scattering debris BEFORE it crashed ? Have you found any yet ?

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
reply to post by PhotonEffect

 

There were planes in the air. People did see planes. Some saw the plane fly over Indian lake others didnt. Some saw a small white plane some saw something no bigger than a van crash but all but one didnt see the plane actually crash but saw a plane then later heard a boom. Lee P. is the only guy who claims to actually see the plane crash .

The fact is there were more than 2 crafts in the air before and after. The crash scene is suspicious, there are witnesses that said the plane flew over indian lake while losing parts and scattering debris BEFORE it crashed. Some of them witnessed a smaller military type jet leave the area seconds after the BOOM.

Many conflicting stories.

edit on 15-10-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)

Okay great. So clearly, you're saying there was a plane then. No matter what- witnesses saw a PLANE

So now we can stop arguing about the crater not being made by a plane crash. That of UAL93.

The crater in Shanksville is too small to have been caused by a Boeing 757 as you can see. The trajectory of flight 93 before impact was 45 degrees and over 450 mph.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
The crater in Shanksville is too small to have been caused by a Boeing 757 as you can see. The trajectory of flight 93 before impact was 45 degrees and over 450 mph.

40 deg 580 mph. Did you notice the crater is exactly the same shape as the holes in the world trade centre buildings, only the wing scars are a little shorter at: 124' 10". Perfect size for a 757.

How's it going with finding those witnesses that saw flt 93 over Indian Lake shedding parts ? Any luck yet ?

How about this you ready to take a stab at it ?

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
The crater in Shanksville is too small to have been caused by a Boeing 757 as you can see. The trajectory of flight 93 before impact was 45 degrees and over 450 mph.

Looks like a fit to normal people....







Now, will you be answering my question regarding my photo on the previous page?

HAhaha terrible picture, perspective is all off and the planes wings never hit the ground as you and others have some moronic assumption those little weathered trenches were caused by a plane even though it has been proven countless times what you armchair pseudo skeptics claim were caused by wings.

Show any evidence, claims, measurements, witness accounts that claim those old weathered, grass filled ditch was caused by wings on 911 from a Boeing 757.

The crater was only 30 feet wide and 10 feet deep. A planes width at the wings is over 124 feet. Its length is over 155 feet. The Verticle stabilizer is 45 feet tall from the ground. There is no evidence that anything close to these dimensions caused that small crater in Shanksviile.

As you can see in this next image that the crater is v shaped and what caused it and where it initially hit can be seen and is only a few feet wide.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Excuse me, but how are you measuring the length and depth without having a reference? I work with cataloging artifacts sometimes, and we have to include a reference ruler with every object. Even having people standing there, you do not have the complete crater scar in any of the pictures, and you don't know the distance of the camera or multiple angles.

Wouldn't the measurements taken day-of be much more accurate?

Here is more evidence that what is commonly confused for wings scars are anything but caused by wings. It was there prior to the events of 911. The 30 foot wide crater was created on top of a weathered trench from the surface coal mine that was recently covered over with soft soil before 2001.

As you can see there is water drainage channels highlighted in green. These marks are sometimes confused and promoted by above posters as have been caused by the tail fin of the plane which you can clearly see they werent.


Its on hill.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Honestly, there is nothing clear about this at all. What was the structure of the trench? What measurements were taken on the day?

This is simply not helpful.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Dude, your drainage ditch was cut by a 124'10" wide 580 mph aluminum shovel.

How about those witnesses ? Find any yet ?

Dude prove the trench was cut by wings. Find any witnesses yet that claim those were caused by the wings?
Still waiting...........


Challenge or bugger off, Find any witness that claims the crash site was wider than 50 feet or anywhere near your delusional "124.10" feet gibberish.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Dude prove the trench was cut by wings. Find any witnesses yet that claim those were caused by the wings?
Still waiting...........


Challenge or bugger off, Find any witness that claims the crash site was wider than 50 feet or anywhere near your delusional "124.10" feet gibberish.

edit on 16-10-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)

Doesn't the onus of evidence also lie on your claim? This is not a one-way street, buddy.

I am not making anything up. the witness statements, reporters, and authorities have said the plane crash site is no more than around 30 feet wide and 10 feet deep. The images corroberate the claims.

The odd poster here claims the crater is 124.10 feet wide. A measurment he lifted from a wiki page on the wingspan of a boeing 757. Silly.

Counter claim it. Show sources, official or news links that claim the size of the crater is larger than that.

Here is wikipedia

Crash


Flight 93 crash site
At 10:03:11, near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, the plane crashed into a reclaimed coal strip mine in Stonycreek Township in Somerset County.[60] The National Transportation Safety Board reported that the flight impacted at 563 miles per hour (906 km/h) at a 40-degree nose-down, inverted attitude.[19] The impact left a crater eight to ten feet deep (c. 3 m), and 30 to 50 feet wide (c. 12 m).[61]

en.wikipedia.org...